auto bail out
- Thread startermuleman
- Start date
Like I said, if the USPS thought same day delivery was something they wanted to include in their business plan then they would. Yes, UPS is very efficient and I use them too if they happen to be in my direction at the time i need to ship something. FEDEX is a different story...they're not what they were 20 years ago... and after they accidentally delivered an ultrasound machine part to some Whole Foods location and our company went through hell trying locate it and almost fired the poor SOB responsible for ordering that part, I pretty much stopped using them. In the end mistakes do happen and I understand that. In any case, to most people price is the most important factor and this shouldn't be a point of argument. Yes, if you don't care how much it costs and you need something delivered somewhere today and you hate anything gov't related, by all means go to UPS they need your business too. Otherwise, if you are looking to mail a package from point A to point B and you don't assume Doc, Marty, and the Delorian are based on a true story, and you are on a tight budget, then go for USPS.
The problem is you want one thing and I want another and that's ok. We're both going to stubbornly keep to our own side of this discussion. The truth is anyone can argue anything. I still think the bailout is necessary at this time; and apparently so does BUSH a republican trying to fix his image.
The problem is you want one thing and I want another and that's ok. We're both going to stubbornly keep to our own side of this discussion. The truth is anyone can argue anything. I still think the bailout is necessary at this time; and apparently so does BUSH a republican trying to fix his image.
SaltandPepper98 said:
10% of Americans are involved in the car industry in some way, so the impact on the economy would have serious implications if there was not some sort of bail out. But there is a huge difference between the cost of a car rolling off the assembly line and the final retail price it sells at.
I never could see the point in laying off factory workers making cars, but there is a lot of room to bring down selling prices to realistic levels, so that demand can pick up again.
The whole auto industry is squealing with pain, so it could be hard to point the finger at any particular company. However slashing all executive salaries to less than $100,000 per annum would be a start - and probably 40% could be stood down for a year to give the industry a fighting chance to bounce back.
No matter how you slice it, the public will only pay as much for a car as they can afford, so car prices have to drop a lot as the demand is not there.
If everyone makes their car last an extra two years before replacement, the industry will be in big trouble. A lot of Japanese cars around the world are still working well for their owners after 20 years, the quality has been built into them.
I never could see the point in laying off factory workers making cars, but there is a lot of room to bring down selling prices to realistic levels, so that demand can pick up again.
The whole auto industry is squealing with pain, so it could be hard to point the finger at any particular company. However slashing all executive salaries to less than $100,000 per annum would be a start - and probably 40% could be stood down for a year to give the industry a fighting chance to bounce back.
No matter how you slice it, the public will only pay as much for a car as they can afford, so car prices have to drop a lot as the demand is not there.
If everyone makes their car last an extra two years before replacement, the industry will be in big trouble. A lot of Japanese cars around the world are still working well for their owners after 20 years, the quality has been built into them.
The electric car industry is tipped to be full on by 2020. New battery technology has put electric cars into a competitive position with gasoline. The cars are free of noise and have zero pollution. One of the current prototypes can outsprint a racing car to 100 miles per hour. They will save lives in traffic jams because they won't throw out deadly gases that cause heart attacks and cause lung problems.
blkoralslaveboy said:
We agree to disagree (and without rancor) and there is nothing wrong with that. In the long run you win as there is no stopping what is known as "creeping socialism". I am just glad that all these people who hold your views weren't around at the turn of the last century or we would still be bailing out the horse and buggy industry because after all, you can't lay off all those workers. What would it do to the economy?
Did you ever think that it might just take a whole new industry with new ways and new investments to make the type of cars that you feel we must have? Maybe Detroit just can't or won't do it. And if that happens then will you still want to prop up Detroit? Nobody propped up the steel industry, they downsized and specialized. People lost their jobs and got other jobs making things that were really needed and now we get cheaper steel from overseas.
I am not saying that is good or bad or even that I agree with it. I am saying things change and its better if the Gov stays out of it.
I semi-agree yes we do need a whole new type of industry. "A strange new thing" that will somehow make sense to us and take over our lives sometime in the future. Like the airline system in the 1920's, the highway system in the 1930's, the internet in the early 90's, and sosf. But this 'detroit' crisis as everyone keeps repeating is in the context of a very bad recession with all reports indicating ominous times ahead. As I always say, certainty is the greatest disease of the mind... Who knows perhaps we will enter a new dark age in 50 years once the fossil fuels are spent and we rely entirely on nuclear energy, and a new nuclear fear emerges--the 2nd dark ages lol (of course this is just bullshit prediction)..
In any case, right now they are going to do what they have to do to keep things smooth. And not everyone has to agree with their methods.
b
In any case, right now they are going to do what they have to do to keep things smooth. And not everyone has to agree with their methods.
b
SaltandPepper98 said:
Heh heh, yeah I see you have that "over the shoulder" look about you with Ro. Mine is more of a "deer in the headlights" look. Its interesting that whenever I mention her beauty and brains someone will pm me about how I know about her beauty. I know there were pics of her in a thread on this site somewhere. I'll have to find them and copy the link to send members when they ask.
An interesting aside. I just accidentally found a list of the top ten "American made" cars and Toyota is number two, three and eight. Ford F-150 was number 1 and Toyota Camry was two.
There is even a list of all "UAW" made vehicals which of course is a shot at Toyota.
Norm
An interesting aside. I just accidentally found a list of the top ten "American made" cars and Toyota is number two, three and eight. Ford F-150 was number 1 and Toyota Camry was two.
There is even a list of all "UAW" made vehicals which of course is a shot at Toyota.
Norm
Lol. Well, I respect her views and I don't really think I disagree with her posts for the most part. I've already seen Ro's pics and visited her website :clap:. My curiosity at this point is that I wonder what she's like in person... she sort of has a fan fair here. Also, I'm curious on whether she meets any men on Dark Cavern or if she goes to parties to do so. Maybe I sound like a jack off :whatever: but whatever I'm curious about the celeb that is Ro. Bet I'm not the only one either...
SaltandPepper98 said:
Shhhhhh whisper or she'll hear us.
But you're right and not just Ro. I always wondered how it would go if say, the top thousand posters (minus Pimp), plus the mods met for a convention somewhere. And the name tags would be our handles. Can you imagine Ro's face, showing up to a convention with the likes of me, you, Supreme Black Man and the rest. In other words a thousand middle aged white guys. Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Something just dawned on me when I mentioned mods.
Hey Muleman you son of a bitch! You started this thread you troll now get your black ass back in here.
But you're right and not just Ro. I always wondered how it would go if say, the top thousand posters (minus Pimp), plus the mods met for a convention somewhere. And the name tags would be our handles. Can you imagine Ro's face, showing up to a convention with the likes of me, you, Supreme Black Man and the rest. In other words a thousand middle aged white guys. Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Something just dawned on me when I mentioned mods.
Hey Muleman you son of a bitch! You started this thread you troll now get your black ass back in here.
Hey BlkOral, I just came across an article in Time magazine. Its a little dated (2003) but interesting. Here is the link Why The Most Profitable Cars Made in the U.S.A. are Japanese and German - TIME Apparently "legacy costs" aren't the only advantage. And if things were so one sided in 2002/2003 then what chance do you think this bailout has? They will be back for more and more and more.
Here are a couple of paragraphs from the article:
"So here's the mystery: if foreign-based companies like Nissan--along with BMW, Honda and Toyota--are building more vehicles in American factories, using American workers and American suppliers, and selling the vehicles to Americans for a good profit, why aren't DaimlerChrysler, Ford and General Motors doing the same? Last year the Big Three collectively lost money on car sales in North America (and earned a mere 1.8% profit on overall sales). Honda and Nissan earned higher margins and record profits, and Toyota is expected to post similar results.
The stock explanation for this situation is that the foreign makers pay their U.S. workers less in wages and benefits than do the Big Three. But that answer is wrong; the compensation is roughly equivalent. The real reasons for the transplants' success are much more interesting and instructive: more efficient manufacturing systems, better labor relations, more collaborative relationships with suppliers, lower "legacy" costs for retirees' pensions and health benefits, and hard-earned reputations for quality."
Here are a couple of paragraphs from the article:
"So here's the mystery: if foreign-based companies like Nissan--along with BMW, Honda and Toyota--are building more vehicles in American factories, using American workers and American suppliers, and selling the vehicles to Americans for a good profit, why aren't DaimlerChrysler, Ford and General Motors doing the same? Last year the Big Three collectively lost money on car sales in North America (and earned a mere 1.8% profit on overall sales). Honda and Nissan earned higher margins and record profits, and Toyota is expected to post similar results.
The stock explanation for this situation is that the foreign makers pay their U.S. workers less in wages and benefits than do the Big Three. But that answer is wrong; the compensation is roughly equivalent. The real reasons for the transplants' success are much more interesting and instructive: more efficient manufacturing systems, better labor relations, more collaborative relationships with suppliers, lower "legacy" costs for retirees' pensions and health benefits, and hard-earned reputations for quality."
lol i hear u but i'm really not a middle aged white guy. hmmm....although i could see why you might think i am. she probably wouldn't mind the people as long as they were gents of course that's just my guess. If a darkcavern convention was held i think the turn out would yield a lot of interesting people if advertised well... you might have stumbled upon a 'hellava'n idear.
SaltandPepper98 said:
Yes, the 105k legacy cost is quite a bit. Here's the deal, let the management take a big pay cut, CEO take a big cut, and then come back and union bust, my friend. It is no secret that there is an enormous disparity between the pay levels of US CEOs and their Japanese counterparts. CEO is becoming synonymous chief embezzling officer and yet they keep getting away with it... no one gives a shit about them.
its funny how the bigger the thief the better his chances for being forgiven sometimes:wtf:. unions aren't righteous but neither are their busters. but given the situation I agree that everyone --across the board-- has to make some concession.
its funny how the bigger the thief the better his chances for being forgiven sometimes:wtf:. unions aren't righteous but neither are their busters. but given the situation I agree that everyone --across the board-- has to make some concession.
SaltandPepper98 said:
LMAO goddam Norm I knew I could still get your cracker ass going damn Eagles anyway hell goverment cars shit GM is shutting down Dealers here in Iowa wanting to have a few big ones in the whole damn State as Ford has been doing for the past two years. Shit how about these damn dealer employees with out jobs and mechanics getting to be alot of them with out work here oh well they get unemployment for a bail out not a big fucking billon dollar check to spend to stay afloat as the good old goverment does lets fuck the working class and wine and dine the big boys because they keep people employed my ass as the old saying goes Norm the rich gets riucher and the poor gets poorer you rich bitch lol A convention for all of us hell yes maybe the goverment can send a check to fund it travel and rooms and meals but you forgot the most important thing a guess speaker. Later NormSaltandPepper98 said:
Don't feel bad. Both my teams failed to make the playoffs this year. The Pats and the Cowboys. I'm going to the nudie bar later to drown my sorrows in multiple sets of tits.
Hey Mule, I just saw this article below. Is that in your neck of Idaho? What a sad story.
Norm
TWIN FALLS, Idaho -- The father of an 11-year-old girl who died, likely of hypothermia, after trying to walk 10 miles in the snow on Christmas Day has been charged with second-degree murder and felony injury to a child.
Robert Aragon, 55, of Jerome, made an initial appearance Monday in 5th District Court, where Judge Mark Ingram appointed a public defender for him. The judge denied Aragon's request to lower his $500,000 bond. He was being held in the Blaine County Jail.
Aragon was emotional during the short hearing. He banged his head on the defendant's table as Ingram read the charges against him, The Times-News reported. After Ingram noted that second-degree murder carries a maximum penalty of life in prison, Aragon said "Oh my God" as he banged his head on the table one final time.
Sage Aragon and her 12-year-old brother, Bear, were with their father on Thursday when his truck got stuck in a snow drift near state Highway 75, north of Shoshone in southcentral Idaho, according to the Lincoln County sheriff's office.
The children live with Aragon in Jerome and he was taking them to visit their mother, JoLeta Jenks, in West Magic.
After the truck got caught in the snow, authorities allege Aragon let the children out to walk to their mother's house while he and another adult stayed behind to free the vehicle.
Jenks said she called Aragon because she was concerned after no one arrived at her home on Thursday. Aragon had driven back to Jerome after letting the kids out to walk to her house, Jenks said.
"They didn't even call me, telling me they were walking," she told the Times-News.
Jenks called the police and a Blaine County search and rescue team found the boy at a rest area near the highway shortly before 10 p.m. on Thursday night.
Adults in the search effort described the snow as knee-deep for them.
The boy was found wearing only long underwear, Blaine County Sheriff Walt Femling said in a news release. Apparently delusional from hypothermia, the child had discarded his jacket, pants and shoes, the sheriff's office said. He was treated and released at a nearby hospital.
The rest area was about 4.5 miles from where the children started walking.
At some point the children separated and their mother said her son told her they disagreed about whether to keep going or turn back.
"(Bear) kept on telling her: 'Let's go, Sage, let's go, Sage,"' Jenks said, recalling what her son told her. "She said, 'No, I'm going back."'
The little girl was found about 2.7 miles from where the two set out, barely visible under windblown, drifting snow when search dogs located her along a local road about 2 a.m. Friday. She was wearing a brown down coat, black shirt, pink pajama pants and tan snowboots, the sheriff's office statement said.
"I thought she was alive because they said they found her," Jenks said. "I was excited."
The girl was pronounced dead at a Ketchum hospital; preliminary autopsy results indicate she died of hypothermia.
Officials say temperatures in the area at the time the girl was missing ranged from 27 degrees above zero to minus 5.
Jenks and Aragon are not married. While she said she doesn't understand the decision Aragon is accused of making in letting the children walk to her house, Jenks added, "I don't need to sit and yell. I know he's going through hell right now."
Hey Mule, I just saw this article below. Is that in your neck of Idaho? What a sad story.
Norm
TWIN FALLS, Idaho -- The father of an 11-year-old girl who died, likely of hypothermia, after trying to walk 10 miles in the snow on Christmas Day has been charged with second-degree murder and felony injury to a child.
Robert Aragon, 55, of Jerome, made an initial appearance Monday in 5th District Court, where Judge Mark Ingram appointed a public defender for him. The judge denied Aragon's request to lower his $500,000 bond. He was being held in the Blaine County Jail.
Aragon was emotional during the short hearing. He banged his head on the defendant's table as Ingram read the charges against him, The Times-News reported. After Ingram noted that second-degree murder carries a maximum penalty of life in prison, Aragon said "Oh my God" as he banged his head on the table one final time.
Sage Aragon and her 12-year-old brother, Bear, were with their father on Thursday when his truck got stuck in a snow drift near state Highway 75, north of Shoshone in southcentral Idaho, according to the Lincoln County sheriff's office.
The children live with Aragon in Jerome and he was taking them to visit their mother, JoLeta Jenks, in West Magic.
After the truck got caught in the snow, authorities allege Aragon let the children out to walk to their mother's house while he and another adult stayed behind to free the vehicle.
Jenks said she called Aragon because she was concerned after no one arrived at her home on Thursday. Aragon had driven back to Jerome after letting the kids out to walk to her house, Jenks said.
"They didn't even call me, telling me they were walking," she told the Times-News.
Jenks called the police and a Blaine County search and rescue team found the boy at a rest area near the highway shortly before 10 p.m. on Thursday night.
Adults in the search effort described the snow as knee-deep for them.
The boy was found wearing only long underwear, Blaine County Sheriff Walt Femling said in a news release. Apparently delusional from hypothermia, the child had discarded his jacket, pants and shoes, the sheriff's office said. He was treated and released at a nearby hospital.
The rest area was about 4.5 miles from where the children started walking.
At some point the children separated and their mother said her son told her they disagreed about whether to keep going or turn back.
"(Bear) kept on telling her: 'Let's go, Sage, let's go, Sage,"' Jenks said, recalling what her son told her. "She said, 'No, I'm going back."'
The little girl was found about 2.7 miles from where the two set out, barely visible under windblown, drifting snow when search dogs located her along a local road about 2 a.m. Friday. She was wearing a brown down coat, black shirt, pink pajama pants and tan snowboots, the sheriff's office statement said.
"I thought she was alive because they said they found her," Jenks said. "I was excited."
The girl was pronounced dead at a Ketchum hospital; preliminary autopsy results indicate she died of hypothermia.
Officials say temperatures in the area at the time the girl was missing ranged from 27 degrees above zero to minus 5.
Jenks and Aragon are not married. While she said she doesn't understand the decision Aragon is accused of making in letting the children walk to her house, Jenks added, "I don't need to sit and yell. I know he's going through hell right now."
