yahoo news:"Worst Crisis Since '30s, With No End Yet in Sight

  • Thread starterblkoralslaveboy
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blkoralslaveboy said:
Read it here:
http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bu...t-Crisis-Since-1930s-With-No-End-Yet-in-Sight

looks like the road to prosperity has hit some mud!!

Don't worry McSame and Miss Sara will CHANGE all that.

All you have to do is forget that McSame has been involved in the Washington Establishment for approx 26 years and has lobbyist running his campaign. Then click your Ruby slippers together three times and repeat "theres no place like home", "theres no place like home".

Remember just look at the pictures of the McSames and the Palins. There are the traditional all white families. America wake up and vote for McSame so we can change Washington back to the good old days when when whiteness was supreme!

Even the name Palin infers a lighter shade!

McSame invented the Blackberry so he knows about change.

When he was one of the Keating Five involved in getting preference for Charles Keatings Savings and Loan that failed, he changed after he got his hands smaked.

When he returned from Nam to find the wife and mother of his 3 children had been in a horrific traffic accident he changed! Wives that is!

When he had his GOP Convention this year, he changed again! He remade himself by stealing Obama's theme of CHANGE!

Come on people vote White only, lets get back to the good old days!

Oops, wait a minute that wouldn't be change would it?

Sure theres a women on the ticket in second place! But thats not change!

Sure the only difference between Palin and any other neocon is a chromeosome, but that wouldn't be change!

Sure we would be voting for the white guy and not the black one! But thats not change!

Oh hell, I am too confused now, I think I will vote for the Black Guy!

He's smarter, not part of the Washington establishment, and Black.

After over 200 years of White people making poor decisions, maybe a change might make a difference.
 
i got lots saved up in good hard cash...

i'm hopin lots of broke-ass whiteboys come to me lookin for a loan... i'm sure they wives got some ASSets to offer me in return :-D
 
This may be the beginning of the new world

Could this be just the beginning.

Economic upheaval. Social change. White men are no longer needed and may only be retained only to breed more white women for black men to enjoy. The best WM can be drained of all sperm and frozen for future fertilization.

Black men rule the earth. White women as their sires and kept in large harems for breeding and pleasure purposes.

Could it happen?
 
handigrl said:
Don't worry McSame and Miss Sara will CHANGE all that.

All you have to do is forget that McSame has been involved in the Washington Establishment for approx 26 years and has lobbyist running his campaign. Then click your Ruby slippers together three times and repeat "theres no place like home", "theres no place like home".

Remember just look at the pictures of the McSames and the Palins. There are the traditional all white families. America wake up and vote for McSame so we can change Washington back to the good old days when when whiteness was supreme!

Even the name Palin infers a lighter shade!

McSame invented the Blackberry so he knows about change.

When he was one of the Keating Five involved in getting preference for Charles Keatings Savings and Loan that failed, he changed after he got his hands smaked.

When he returned from Nam to find the wife and mother of his 3 children had been in a horrific traffic accident he changed! Wives that is!

When he had his GOP Convention this year, he changed again! He remade himself by stealing Obama's theme of CHANGE!

Come on people vote White only, lets get back to the good old days!

Oops, wait a minute that wouldn't be change would it?

Sure theres a women on the ticket in second place! But thats not change!

Sure the only difference between Palin and any other neocon is a chromeosome, but that wouldn't be change!

Sure we would be voting for the white guy and not the black one! But thats not change!

Oh hell, I am too confused now, I think I will vote for the Black Guy!

He's smarter, not part of the Washington establishment, and Black.

After over 200 years of White people making poor decisions, maybe a change might make a difference.

Another moveon.org cut and paste.
 
Will & Eve said:
I'll give Ro props, we often don't agree but at least she has a properly skeptical view of both sides.
Something you CLEARLY lack as well. Its funny how you are quick to attack liberals doing the very thing you constantly do...which is to obsessively argue in favor of the conservative side while blindly throwing insult (like poop) at anything even remotely not sounding conservative. you praise Ro for her bipartisanship, but in doing so you have pretty much defamed yourself! and that brother/sister is your right!:whatever:

Anyways, it turns out Bush's secretary of treasury has some "liberal agenda" after all... force feeding AIG 85billion for a 79.9% ownership. Well, its sad that after the whole Reaganomicist's approach to the financial markets for the past 25 (yes even Clinton has some blame), minimizing regulatory action and letting the market fall as it may, that they finally see the cost of their horrific errors. The conservative approach of minimal government involvement on these large financial sectors is not paying off and it's now a do or die situation where the doers haven't the slightest bit of idea what they're doing overall. But I personally back the treasury decision to release some of it's $800billion pool into these markets and hope that Bush while still in office can start re-regulating these markets.

Its sad because traditional banks are not too hurt by the subsidiary loans primarily of the regulations put in place. Doesn't it add up to everyone that these banks should be the model for the rest of these institutions?? That a liberal/social approach to this system would have prevented the current outcome at least in part?? That bidding on potential foreclosures, private brokerages financing and selling risky debtors, and overblown hedge funds would not have bubbled such latency as compared to the dot.com and the real estate bubbles before hand. Liberal ideas being used by a conservative administration to avoid potential catastrophe; perhaps a bit too late but we'll see.
 
Demorats plan to do nothing:

Sept. 18 (Bloomberg) -- The Democratic-controlled Congress, acknowledging that it isn't equipped to lead the way to a solution for the financial crisis and can't agree on a path to follow, is likely to just get out of the way.

Lawmakers say they are unlikely to take action before, or to delay, their planned adjournments -- Sept. 26 for the House of Representatives, a week later for the Senate. While they haven't ruled out returning after the Nov. 4 elections, they would rather wait until next year unless Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, who are leading efforts to contain the crisis, call for help.

One reason, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said yesterday, is that ``no one knows what to do'' at the moment.

``When you rush to judgment, you usually make mistakes,'' said Sherwood Boehlert, a former Republican congressman from New York. ``This is something you can't go on forever without addressing, but Congress in a short span of time is best served by going home.''

In 2002, after accounting scandals ****** Enron Corp. and WorldCom Inc. into bankruptcy, Congress passed the Sarbanes-Oxley law, setting new corporate-governance rules. While the measure passed unanimously in the Senate and overwhelmingly in the House, it has since become a target of criticism from some Republicans, including presidential candidate John McCain, and from many in the business and financial worlds.

``There's a huge danger that needs to be guarded against -- that we'll have a tremendous overreaction in regulations,'' former Treasury Secretary John Snow said in an interview.

Reid's `Despair'

Still, the Democrats opened themselves up for attack with Reid's comments. The Republican National Committee pounced on the Nevada lawmaker for his ``despair,'' and Senator Mel Martinez, a Florida Republican, said his remarks are ``not a way to inspire confidence or begin to turn the tide.''

And there were some calls for at least a bipartisan show of leadership during the crisis, which has resulted in the collapse of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, investment banks Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Bear Stearns Cos., and insurer American International Group Inc., among other companies.

Unless party leaders on both sides of the aisle join with President George W. Bush to endorse a solution, there's little Congress and the president can do in the near term to restore market confidence, said Chuck Gabriel, managing director of Capital Alpha Partners LLC, which advises investors on politics and Washington.

White House Lawn

Wall Street would respond positively ``if the president and Treasury Secretary Paulson and a couple of Cabinet members and the Republican and Democratic leadership all went on the White House lawn and said that we are resolved to taking additional measures in the coming weeks despite the elections to ensure that confidence is restored,'' Gabriel said.

``But the odds of that seem very, very low.''

Some committee chairmen have scheduled hearings and promised better oversight.

Representative Henry Waxman, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, will hold two days of hearings on Oct. 6 and 7 ``to examine what went wrong and who should be held to account'' at AIG and Lehman Brothers, which filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 15.

Waxman's committee summoned Lehman Chief Executive Officer Richard Fuld, AIG CEO Robert Willumstad and former AIG chiefs Maurice ``Hank'' Greenberg and Martin Sullivan to speak.

`Work Will Continue'

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi defended the decision of Congress to adjourn. Lawmakers can always be recalled to Washington ``if there is a need to do so,'' she told reporters yesterday. In the meantime, House and Senate committees will hold hearings and the financial crisis will be studied by Congress, she said. ``Our work will continue even if we are not still on the floor,'' she said.

House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank said Congress could give the Federal Reserve authority to pay interest on bank reserves sooner than originally scheduled.

``They already have the authority; it's just a question of moving it up a couple of years,'' Frank, of Massachusetts, told reporters yesterday. ``We're trying to work that out.''

Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd said the Fed also has the power to buy and dispose of bad debt stemming from the subprime-mortgage crisis.

``The Fed has the authority to move in this area,'' Dodd told reporters in Washington.

No `Quick Fixes'

Creating a separate agency to take on bad debt, akin to the Resolution Trust Corp. set up in 1989 to absorb losses from savings-and-loan associations, would take about a year, he said. Instead, the Fed should use its own authority to act.

Senator Johnny Isakson, a Georgia Republican active on housing issues, scoffed at suggestions that lawmakers postpone adjournment to rewrite laws governing the financial markets.

``The last thing you need,'' he said, ``are 535 people, not many of whom are that well-versed in financial markets, trying to do quick fixes to a market correction that's one of the more significant that we've ever seen.''
 
Toni, If you seriously think that either the republicans or the democrats want to be haggling over a meaningless gesture (similar to the stimulus checks they handed out earlier this year) when they all want to go home to campaign, you're on drugs.

The administration has ample tools to deal with these problems in the short term. Blaming either party for not providing a quick fix is just plain silly and partisan politics at it's worst.

I mean do you really want them to set up a structure that has us all buying the bad debt off financial institutions and laying the gambling losses they incur on the backs of the American people?
 
RoSquirts said:
Toni, If you seriously think that either the republicans or the democrats want to be haggling over a meaningless gesture (similar to the stimulus checks they handed out earlier this year) when they all want to go home to campaign, you're on drugs.

The administration has ample tools to deal with these problems in the short term. Blaming either party for not providing a quick fix is just plain silly and partisan politics at it's worst.

I mean do you really want them to set up a structure that has us all buying the bad debt off financial institutions and laying the gambling losses they incur on the backs of the American people?

What the hell are you talking about. I think you're the one on drugs.
 
toni said:
What the hell are you talking about. I think you're the one on drugs.

Sorry, next time I'll just copy and paste some drivel.
 
RoSquirts said:
Sorry, next time I'll just copy and paste some drivel.

Go with your strengths my son.
 
toni said:
Go with your strengths my son.

antisemitic bigot! you have nerves!:pee::pee:
 
fair enough...but i know inside you're not pleased...you're just showing more support for your party, though grudgingly. but who cares we distantly almost slightly sorta kinda don't entirely disagree to an limited extent on this point. :)although i am siding with the congressional amendment of the Bush proposal for the money to help struggling home owners! After all, why spoil such a good idea by buying out companies just to buy them out...

QUOTE=Will & Eve;221423]Feel free to compare my total number of politic-related posts on this board and the total number of, for instances, yours.

I'm not under any illusion that Bush or most of the people working for him are conservatives.

It's not simple generic deregulation that is at issue. It is specifically targeted deregulation with a specific social engineering goal.
I've not heard any conservatives advocating total deregulation of financial institutions - even McCain (admittedly not a true conservative) suggests more regulation and, in point of fact, sponsored a bill in 2006 for more and different regulation that the Dems killed.

"Deregulation" is a nice little buzz-word but all deregulation means is getting rid of burdensome obtrusive regulations - it doesn't mean turning a blind eye.

(that said, virtually everyone in government over the past decade turned a blind eye even with a ton of regulations in place.

Again, the regulations Clinton pushed removing were not removed out of conservative instincts, they were removed as an act of social engineering.


honestly, a LARGE part of the cause of the problems and the potential solutions are not things which fit neatly in a liberal/conservative pattern of thought. I could give a fuck if Bush or McCain employ methods that you would consider "liberal ideas" to stabilize these institutions and avoid hurting the economy further, if it works it works. Liberal and conservative aren't even applicable terms.[/QUOTE]
 
By Drew Zahn
WorldNetDaily


Stan J. Liebowitz

While many pundits are pointing to corporate greed and a lack of government regulation as the cause for the American mortgage and financial crisis, some analysts are saying it wasn't too little government intervention that cased the mortgage meltdown, but too much, in the form of activists compelling the government to pressure Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae into unsound – though politically correct – lending practices.

"Home mortgages have been a political piñata for many decades," writes Stan J. Liebowitz, economics professor at the University of Texas at Dallas, in a chapter of his forthcoming book, Housing America: Building out of a Crisis.

Liebowitz puts forward an explanation that he admits is "not consistent with the nasty-subprime-lender hypothesis currently considered to be the cause of the mortgage meltdown."

In a nutshell, Liebowitz contends that the federal government over the last 20 years pushed the mortgage industry so hard to get minority homeownership up, that it undermined the country's financial foundation to achieve its goal.

"In an attempt to increase homeownership, particularly by minorities and the less affluent, an attack on underwriting standards was undertaken by virtually every branch of the government since the early 1990s," Liebowitz writes. "The decline in mortgage underwriting standards was universally praised as 'innovation' in mortgage lending by regulators, academic specialists, (government-sponsored enterprises) and housing activists."

He continues, "Although a seemingly noble goal, the tool chosen to achieve this goal was one that endangered the entire mortgage enterprise."

"As homeownership rates increased there was self-congratulation all around," Liebowitz writes. "The community of regulators, academic specialists, and housing activists all reveled in the increase in homeownership."

An article in the Los Angeles Times from the late '90s praised the sudden surge in homeownership among minorities, calling it "one of the hidden success stories of the Clinton era."

John Lott, a senior research scientist at the University of Maryland, however, claimed in a Fox News article yesterday that the success came at a great price.

According to Lott, the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston produced a manual in the early '90s that warned mortgage lenders to no longer deny urban and lower-income minority applicants on such "outdated" criteria as credit history, down payment or employment income.

Furthermore, claims Lott, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac encouraged and praised lenders – like Countrywide and Bear Stearns – for adopting the slackened policies toward minority applicants.

"Given these lending practices mandated by the Fed and encouraged by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac," writes Lott, "the resulting financial problems for financial institutions such as Countrywide and Bear Stearns are not too surprising."

(Story continues below)

Liebowitz' contention that lenders were under pressure to loosen their standards for racial and political goals was confirmed years ago by the companies at the heart of today's crisis: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

A New York Times article from Sept. 1999 states that Fannie Mae had been under increasing pressure from the Clinton administration to expand mortgage loans among low- and moderate-income people and that the corporation loosened its lending requirements to comply.

An ominous paragraph of the article reads, "In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980s."

Liebowitz likewise predicted in a 1998 paper the risk of sacrificing sound financial policy for social activism.

"After the warm fuzzy glow of 'flexible underwriting standards' has worn off," Liebowitz wrote, "we may discover that they are nothing more than standards that led to bad loans. … It will be ironic and unfortunate if minority applicants wind up paying a very heavy price for a misguided policy based on a badly mangled idea."

And though some have speculated that lenders in the '90s dove into sub-prime mortgages in an effort to gouge new markets, the president and chief operating officer of Freddie Mac in 1999, David Glenn, confessed his company was pushed by a federal agenda.

"The mortgage industry intends to pursue minorities with greater intensity as federal regulators turn up the heat to increase home ownership," Glenn said in his remarks at the annual convention of the Mortgage Banker Association of America.

"The federal government in the meantime has increased pressure on lenders to seek out minorities, as well as low-income groups and borrowers with poor credit histories," Glenn said. "Fannie Mae recently reached an agreement with the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to commit half its business to low- and moderate-income borrowers. That means half the mortgages bought by Fannie Mae would be from those income brackets."

In that same year, Freddie Mac warned of the logical pitfalls of pursuing loans on the basis of skin color and not credit history.

The Washington Post reported that the company conducted a study in which it was found that far more black people have bad credit than white people, even when both have the same incomes. In fact, the study showed a higher percentage of African Americans with incomes of $65,000 to $75,000 had bad credit than white Americans with incomes of below $25,000.

Such data demonstrated that when federal regulators demanded parity between racial groups in lending, the only way to achieve a quota would be to begin making intentionally bad lending decisions.

The study, however, came under brutal attack in the U.S. Congress and was ridiculed with charges of racism.

A few years later, when Greg Mankiw, chairman of President Bush's Council of Economic Advisers, voiced a warning about weakened underwriting standards, Congress rebuffed him as well.

The Wall Street Journal quoted Congressman Barney Frank, D-Mass., in 2003 as criticizing Greg Mankiw "because he is worried about the tiny little matter of safety and soundness rather than 'concern about housing.'"

Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, rejected a Bush administration and Congressional Republican plan for regulating the mortgage industry in 2003, saying, "These two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis." According to a New York Times article, Frank added, "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
 
An economist's view

As a mathematical economist I find it fascinating that so many have such strong and often misinformed opinions in my chosen intellectual playground. You never see people arguing over use of t-cells in cancer treatments, or see such strong opinions on the use of the axiom of choice but when it comes to economics people often get extremely hostile, like they have a personal stake in the intellectual ideas they expound. Not that I have a problem with people discussing economics, it is just interesting to me that such discussion are often so hostile and forceful.
 
Greenspan’s sins return to haunt us

By David Blake

Published: September 18 2008 18:39 | Last updated: September 18 2008 18:39

Back in 2002, when his reputation as “The Man Who Saved the World” was at its peak, Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve, came to Britain to pick up his knighthood. His biggest fan, Gordon Brown, now the UK prime minister, had ensured that the citation said it was being awarded for promoting “economic stability”.

During his trip, Mr Greenspan visited the Bank of England’s monetary policy committee. He told them the US financial system had been resilient amid the bursting of the internet bubble. Share prices had halved and there had been massive bond defaults, but no big bank collapses. Mr Greenspan lauded the fact that risk had been spread, using complex derivative instruments. One of the MPC members asked: how could this be? Someone must have lost all that money; who was it? A look of quiet satisfaction came across Mr Greenspan’s face as he answered: “European insurance companies.”

Six years later, AIG, the largest US insurance company, has in effect been nationalised to stop it blowing up the financial world. The US has nationalised the core of its mortgage industry and the government has become the arbiter of which financial companies should survive or die.

Financial markets have an enormous capacity for flexibility, but market participants need to be sure that there are rules, and a referee willing to impose them. Permanent damage has been done to the financial system, despite the extraordinary measures of Messrs Henry Paulson, the US Treasury secretary, and Ben Bernanke, the Fed chairman, to address the problems that stem from the actions of their predecessors. As Mr Paulson has suggested, he is playing a hand dealt by others.

Many blame the Greenspan Fed for this mess. They are right, but not for the reason often cited. It is unfair to say low interest rates are to blame. In the past decade, there is no evidence the US suffered from excessive growth leading to inflation. The economy needed low interest rates and a fiscal stimulus to avoid a severe recession. The Fed was right to do its bit.

Where Mr Greenspan bears responsibility is his role in ensuring that the era of cheap interest rates created a speculative bubble. He cannot claim he was not warned of the risks. Take two incidents from the 1990s. The first came before he made his 1996 speech referring to “irrational exuberance”. In a Federal Open Market Committee meeting, he conceded there was an equity bubble but declined to do anything about it. He admitted that proposals for tightening the margin requirement, which people need to hold against equity positions, would be effective: “I guarantee that if you want to get rid of the bubble, whatever it is, that will do it.” It seems odd that since then, in defending the Fed’s inaction, he has claimed in three speeches that tightening margins would not have worked.

The second incident stems from spring 1998 when the head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission expressed concern about the massive increase in over-the-counter derivatives. These have been at the heart of the counter-party risk in the crisis. Mr Greenspan suggested new regulation risked disrupting the capital markets.

At the turn of the millennium, with no move to tighten margin requirements, a feedback loop sent share prices into orbit. As prices rose, more brokers were willing to lend to buy more shares. As share prices went up the buying continued, until the bubble burst. To create one bubble may be seen as a misfortune; to create two looks like carelessness. Yet that is exactly what the Greenspan Fed did.

Bruised by stock market losses, Americans bought houses. The mortgage industry used securitised bonds to ensure that the people who initiated the mortgage did not worry about getting paid back; risk was packaged and sold to others. This time Mr Greenspan did not just stand aside. He said repeatedly that housing was a safe investment because prices do not fall. Home owners could wait out any downturn. Is it any surprise that so many people thought if the world’s financial genius held this view it must be all right?

Even as things went completely wild, Mr Greenspan dismissed those who warned that a new bubble was emerging. It was just a case of a little “froth” in a few areas. Later, after waiting until 2007, two years after he left office, he conceded that “froth” had been his euphemism for “bubble”. “All the froth bubbles add up to an aggregate bubble,” he told the Financial Times.

This time, as with the equity bubble, the mistake was not to set interest rates too low; it was to stand back as wildly imprudent policies were pursued by mortgage lenders. Indeed, any lender would have been encouraged by his words in April 2005: “Where once more-marginal applicants would simply have been denied credit, lenders are now able to quite efficiently judge the risk posed by individual applicants and to price that risk appropriately. These improvements have led to rapid growth in subprime mortgage lending.” Well, he was right about the rapid growth in subprime lending.

Mr Greenspan was in charge of supervising and regulating much of the banking industry for two decades. The Fed says it is responsible for ensuring “safe and sound banking practices”. It is right that other regulators should have stepped in, too – the US regulatory structure has not kept pace with market changes . But given the Fed’s institutional importance and Mr Greenspan’s personal stature, does anyone doubt that the Fed could have used its limited powers to ensure a closer examination of what was going on?

Mr Greenspan realises that something big has happened and describes it as a “once in a hundred years” event. But then, you do not get Alan Greenspans coming along every day.

The writer is an executive in an asset management company. He writes in a personal capacity

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008
 
Put us back on the gold standard and the value of the dollar will skyrocket. Bush and Greenspan are idiots with bad policies, I admit that much. But these problems go back decades, and most of them started when we dropped gold as a standard. Paper can only be worth so much.
 
yet another legacy of a demoratic president.
 
The gold standard was first dropped in 1933 during the depression by FDR, yes, a democrat. Just about the whole civilized world dropped the gold standard at that time. Dropping the gold standard is widely credited as being the reason the depression was actually beaten back not the feel good New Deal programs.
The gold standard was reinstated for the US again with the Bretton Woods agreement in 1944, and the rest of the world's currencies were valued against the US dollar.

Richard Nixon, a republican not a democrat, removed fixed pricing for gold in 1971 and by doing this, killed the Bretton Woods agreement, eliminating the gold standard.
 
thawks said:
Sorry, thought this was a sex site......gonna need some viagra after reading this stuff. :nutpunch:


Um, did someone tape your eyes open, prop you up in front of the screen and make you read it?
 
RoSquirts said:
Um, did someone tape your eyes open, prop you up in front of the screen and make you read it?

i still wonder what your voice must sound like...