I have this lady that pm's me about her serving a master. What I would like to know from the people here that have masters just how low or how degraded do they or will you allow yourself to be controled by another person or a master as you call them. I have never been into this lifestyle so I would like to know your bottom line limits that you will obey and when do you put a stop to it at what point in your life.
being dominated
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muleman said:
I am a Dominant Black Male who has a live-in WF submissive. I've been in the lifestyle for over 12 years, and have had lifestyle experiences with a number of submissive women.
That's quite the all-encompassing question you pose, muleman. Different submissives will give you different answers because, as in what we call the 'vanilla world (the 'sex almost every Thursday night, for 15 minutes world),' most D/s relationships are very unique to the two people involved in the relationship. In a real D/s relationship (there are so many 'wannabees' that give the lifestyle a bad rap), it's about TRUST, HONESTY, OPENESS, GIVING, etc; those kinds of attributes. When those positives are present, just about anything can (and does) happen. An important underpinning of the D/s lifestyle is 'SAFE, SANE, and CONSENSUAL.' Many books have been written, trying to address the very question you ask.
I have a primary focus with my submissive, and her TRUST in my effort to this end is implicit.
I will never do anything to intentionally harm, or cause harm to my submissive. She belongs to me, and her well-being is very important to me. If my submissive is not happy with her life with me, she'll find fulfillment with some other Dominant. A person, upon recognizing her true submissive nature will usually never return to the 'vanilla world' in pursuit of social belonging. It's almost like the 'Once you go Black phenomenon.'
I've generalized my thoughts here, because nothing is absolute. Also, many outside the lifestyle just (as you put it) DON'T understand. Some DON"T WANT to understand, and it makes no sense to try to rationalize/dialogue with those kinds of people. So people within the lifestyle usually don't discuss 'what we do' too easily.
If you're serious about understanding what motivates a submissive to give herself to a Dominant, I can recommend some books... Also, there are D/s sites such as collarme.com where many questions are posed and answered in a Forum such as this one. It's great for 'inquiring minds.'
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muleman said:
Here are a couple of references to start you out, muleman...
'Extreme Space (1998), by F.R.R. Mallory is a good place to start; I used it in my early years, to get a better picture of what everyone was telling me about the lifestyle. It'll either make you see your place in the D/s world, or show you that it's not your 'cuppa tea.' Not an ultra-refined 'How To...' book, but it lays it all out, in your face. A bit over 300 pages.
Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance and Submission: Books: William Brame,Gloria Brame by William Brame,Gloria Brame. paints an extensive picture of the lifestyle, its protocols, and it explains a lot of the nuances that is the dance between a Dominant and his submissive.
The Loving Dominant, by John Warren, is another book on the lifestyle that I've heard provides some good material, but I have not read it.
There are clubs throughout the USA which are based on D/s principles and protocols. Notable to me are the Black Rose, and the Crucible, in the Washington, D.C. area. These are clubs with a significant number of members and guests. Many local D/s and BDSM groups hold what is called 'brunches,' where lifestylers can get together and enjoy the company of others who have the same interests. These are NOT isolated incidences' we are interspersed throughout society.
I would caveat this post by saying that it is my opinion that a true submissive is usually 'born' with submissive tendencies/traits. Some will attempt to 'become submissive,' but in time they'll find other thrills, and move on. A true submissive, even though she may hide those traits (even from herself), is always going to be a submissive.
I will also caveat this post by saying that it is my opinion that the lifestyle is NOT for the vast majority of people. Those who hear about it, and then want to go home and slap their wives around hopefully will get whipped about the face and ears and then prosecuted, and they will deserve that.
There are, however, strong, confident women who are successful in professional careers, who run businesses, corporations, etc., who are in fact submissive. They don't want to have to make decisions for themselves outside of work, and the lifestyle works wonders for them. The books I've identified above will help to explain why.
Also, YES... there are female Dominants; they are called Dommes, and male submissives. There are also those who identify as lifestyle slaves. I won't even get into that, here.
I'm providing some excerpts here from 'Different Loving, to help pique your curiosity...
The relative positions (Total Power Exchange) between a Dominant and the submissive.
72… D&S submission is often an act of liberation and also the realization of a private and profound need. The desire precedes action: Submissives consciously seek out opportunities to enact pleasurable fantasies of being sexually controlled. Historically, psychologists have attributed the desire to submit sexually as a craving for expatiation of sexual guilt. This generalization appears to hold true for some submissives, for whom the psychodrama of coercion—in which the dominant, albeit consciously, ‘forces’ them to accept erotic activity—relieves their individual responsibility for sexual desire. When lust is viewed as a shameful moral flaw, erotic coercion helps the submissive to surrender to sexual pleasures.
75… For many, submission is a supreme form of nakedness—a desirable ********. It permits one to explore absolute powerlessness in a safe context, knowing that no harm will occur, and that one will not be condemned, judged, or ridiculed. The sexually timid or socially introverted person may find in submission a place where outrageous exhibitionism is not only permissible but profoundly exciting to the partner. Submission is, in some ways, a topsy-turvy world where the submissive is precisely what he/she is not (and would not choose to be) in daily or social life: Macho men are petti-coated trollops; feminists are love slaves; the fastidious are soiled; hedonists accept extreme pain; and the liberated enter stringent bondage only to find, paradoxically, that they feel even more free.
75… Another key element of submission is a warm combination of TRUST and consolation. Emotional gratification is as important to most submissions as are individual acts. Unlike masochism, submission is not primarily physical. Within the contact of a power exchange, a deeper emotional drama of acceptance is played out. Again, it’s worth noting the paradox of D&S: people who are unlikely to be trusting in their social lives may, sexually place a complete trust in the dominant partner. When this trust is well-placed, submissive often experience a shock of delight.
78… Dominants, too, may enjoy the submissives dependency and emotional nakedness—at least for the term of play. Many dominants stress that they seek equals as partners, people who are in control of their daily lives, but taking such an individual and reducing him/her to a condition of erotic helplessness is electrifying for the dominant, reaffirming the dominant’s sense of personal power. While some dominants are turned on by fairly stringent codes of etiquette, overall, dominants are likely to be flexible about what activities actually occur in a D&S encounter. Also, many dominants indicate that they experiment with a broad range of activities and fantasies. While debate continues about how much power a dominant genuinely possesses, in the final analysis, the consensus seems to be that the submissive runs a D&S relationship.
78… Although dominants may not be mere facilitators of the submissives fantasies, many certainly place a priority on pleasing the submissive by acting according to his or her demands. This point of view is NOT shared by all dominants. Many dominants avoid and disdain submissives who set too many conditions, and firmly believe that a good dominant retains absolute rights over exactly who will take place. Lifestylers, particularly may adhere to the principle that once the submissive has consented to the relationship, the dominant then establishes and controls all limits and activities.
I like control, intellectual mind games. I like to find out what my submissive partner most enjoys. If my submissive is struggling with the desire to engage in a specific darkside activity—that turns me on. I have the power to do that to her. The ideal submissive is someone with a lot of imagination, who isn’t totally comfortable with everything that happens, but who is willing to learn.
81… If the dominant is convincingly stern, or if other elements—such as pain or bondage—are involved, the submissive believes, within the moment (and often long after the moment has passed), in the dominant’s absolute authority.
The Worship of Power
82… Even though all dominants are not cruel (some are), some submissive need them to be cruel—at least for the sake of erotic stimulation. But, not all power is ruthless. In a D&S context, the submissive honors and adores the dominant by ecstatically kissing and caressing body parts—usually legs and feet, but also hand and arms, and or course the erogenous zones—often in a kneeling or prone position. Body worship is a supreme surrender by the submissive to her dominant, and for the dominant, and exciting display of the submissives humility and devotion.
I have had this piece for over six years; someone sent it to me (I don't know it's origins), and I found it rather profound in the lifestyle...
a submissive’s own thoughts…
i have learned that my fears are my own worst enemies. i have learned that it is possible to move past my fears and that for me, it is not only possible, but preferable, for me to be led past them with the help of someone whom i care for and trust and who knows me intimately and has my well-being in mind and in his hands. i have learned that D/s is not necessarily the same as BDSM, and that not all kinks are the same. i have learned that someone else's kink may not be for me, but they have their right to it as long as they are not hurting or injuring me or someone else who is not choosing to be part of the situation. i have learned tolerance by studying and reading about many aspects of this way of life. i am still learning... i believe that patience can be a difficult thing for a submissive or slave to learn, simply because of how they are "wired": a slave's state of mind is on NOW, on needing, wanting the release that comes from pleasing a Master. the future is shapeless without Him. As an unowned slave, i have felt like a limited being: without someone to serve, in the immediacy, i am a ghost, not really a part of the ether world. My needs for security are greater than ever; yet, because i seek a Master who is also my 24/7 partner in life, my prospects for it are bleaker than ever. In my explorations of this Lifestyle, i have tried things i never thought i could or would want to, and have felt my mind expand to include activities i previously thought totally perverse and ugly, as beautiful expressions of submission and ownership. I now actively seek such activities as extensions of my sexuality. i have learned that i need another's command, to feel bound in my mind, around my soul as well as across my body. i have learned that, as afraid as i was to be spanked for the first time, the pain is insignificant when done correctly, the lashes and the spanks interspersed with erotic touching, kissing, licking and caressing. The co-mingling of the two is so key to how i perceive SM. The bondage helps me focus; blindfolding helps me even more. The right toy in the wrong hands is a bad thing; the right toy in the right hands is a benediction. i have learned that my mind and body crave the mental and physical control of a Master. i began a relationship with a Dominant, exploring to see the fit. Within 2 weeks, my body betrayed me—I could no longer masturbate to orgasm on my own; i needed his touch and voice to find my release. i have learned that there is a reason i've worn chokers and tight scarves around my neck since high school. i've learned that when we are out in public, having my wrist held, or his hand firmly against my back both thrills me and evokes a feeling of sublime and serene submission. i have learned that i love to be obedient, though i have a strong argumentative streak if i feel i am "right." i have learned that i am highly inducible, which has led to work on conditioning with certain verbal phrases. The results have been so gratifying that i have come to crave the feeling of His pleasure when i obey without hesitation. The work on conditioning sexual response has also been wonderful: certain phrases now elicit immediate reactions, with intense physical and erotic reactions. i have learned that my passionate nature does not mean i am a freak, as i have felt in vanilla relationships, but rather that D/s scening helps me by having my passion guided and focused for ever more intense sensations. i have learned that my attempts at prior relationships were doomed because i did not understand my own submissive nature. i am intense, and very professional in my job, and i've always thought that my true nature was to command. i now know that i am a slave, and that the confusion in my heart and mind through the years was because i was confusing the two. i have learned that most in the Lifestyle are more interested in living authentically than in the general population at large. i now attempt to live authentically, with a purpose and according to the principles of truth and ethical intention.
a submissive’s own thoughts…
i have learned that my fears are my own worst enemies. i have learned that it is possible to move past my fears and that for me, it is not only possible, but preferable, for me to be led past them with the help of someone whom i care for and trust and who knows me intimately and has my well-being in mind and in his hands. i have learned that D/s is not necessarily the same as BDSM, and that not all kinks are the same. i have learned that someone else's kink may not be for me, but they have their right to it as long as they are not hurting or injuring me or someone else who is not choosing to be part of the situation. i have learned tolerance by studying and reading about many aspects of this way of life. i am still learning... i believe that patience can be a difficult thing for a submissive or slave to learn, simply because of how they are "wired": a slave's state of mind is on NOW, on needing, wanting the release that comes from pleasing a Master. the future is shapeless without Him. As an unowned slave, i have felt like a limited being: without someone to serve, in the immediacy, i am a ghost, not really a part of the ether world. My needs for security are greater than ever; yet, because i seek a Master who is also my 24/7 partner in life, my prospects for it are bleaker than ever. In my explorations of this Lifestyle, i have tried things i never thought i could or would want to, and have felt my mind expand to include activities i previously thought totally perverse and ugly, as beautiful expressions of submission and ownership. I now actively seek such activities as extensions of my sexuality. i have learned that i need another's command, to feel bound in my mind, around my soul as well as across my body. i have learned that, as afraid as i was to be spanked for the first time, the pain is insignificant when done correctly, the lashes and the spanks interspersed with erotic touching, kissing, licking and caressing. The co-mingling of the two is so key to how i perceive SM. The bondage helps me focus; blindfolding helps me even more. The right toy in the wrong hands is a bad thing; the right toy in the right hands is a benediction. i have learned that my mind and body crave the mental and physical control of a Master. i began a relationship with a Dominant, exploring to see the fit. Within 2 weeks, my body betrayed me—I could no longer masturbate to orgasm on my own; i needed his touch and voice to find my release. i have learned that there is a reason i've worn chokers and tight scarves around my neck since high school. i've learned that when we are out in public, having my wrist held, or his hand firmly against my back both thrills me and evokes a feeling of sublime and serene submission. i have learned that i love to be obedient, though i have a strong argumentative streak if i feel i am "right." i have learned that i am highly inducible, which has led to work on conditioning with certain verbal phrases. The results have been so gratifying that i have come to crave the feeling of His pleasure when i obey without hesitation. The work on conditioning sexual response has also been wonderful: certain phrases now elicit immediate reactions, with intense physical and erotic reactions. i have learned that my passionate nature does not mean i am a freak, as i have felt in vanilla relationships, but rather that D/s scening helps me by having my passion guided and focused for ever more intense sensations. i have learned that my attempts at prior relationships were doomed because i did not understand my own submissive nature. i am intense, and very professional in my job, and i've always thought that my true nature was to command. i now know that i am a slave, and that the confusion in my heart and mind through the years was because i was confusing the two. i have learned that most in the Lifestyle are more interested in living authentically than in the general population at large. i now attempt to live authentically, with a purpose and according to the principles of truth and ethical intention.
Yes I haven't been into this scene either but I find it interesting how people get into and pratice this sexual experience Angela. I feel everyone has got some kind of kink or fantasy and I'm trying to understand how they get into this and then just how far they will let someone control them. I'm like you I will not past judgement on anyone that practices this either as there are people that practice this and not even in a sexual way they always have to be the dominate ones in work or family.AngelaBFree said:I am certainly not one to pass judgement and I have enough of my own out-of-the-norm turnons, but I have just never been into the domination scene. I am not a submissive type of person and just can't go that route. But to each his own.
nice Randy University of DC..lol
trust is key in a d/s relationship..no matter what level you are at...whether there are limitations set in advance or not. I realize many will say that a "master" deals without limitations..but that is not my personal experiences. but pushing to their limits..i like to use denial and bondage. there emotional security in giving into you completely is very powerful as is there inner need to only be satisfied when they please you first.
personally think submissives are born not made..like homosexuals...born that way not made by environment..my personal take
trust is key in a d/s relationship..no matter what level you are at...whether there are limitations set in advance or not. I realize many will say that a "master" deals without limitations..but that is not my personal experiences. but pushing to their limits..i like to use denial and bondage. there emotional security in giving into you completely is very powerful as is there inner need to only be satisfied when they please you first.
personally think submissives are born not made..like homosexuals...born that way not made by environment..my personal take
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Pooch said:
I firmly believe that every relationship (not just D/s relationships) is unique to the persons involved in it. Whatever standards, rules, boundaries, limits, etc. are established by those in it, whether it be swinging, Domination/submission, cuckolding, even the so-called 'vanilla' couples, no one else has the right to interfere with how they conduct their lives. As long as they live within the rules of what is legal, SAFE, SANE, and CONSENSUAL.
My submissive and I have rules which, even to a casual observer, would be obviously out of sync with what we consider a vanilla relationship. They work for us. However, they might not work for another D/s couple, either. As I've said before, there are VERY FEW ABSOLUTES in this life. I won't get into any discussion of my personal rules; as I don't interject myself into anyone else's way of life, I WON'T ALLOW others to critique mine.
What I will divulge here is that my submissive and I agreed to rules which would be adhered to, before she moved into my home. Infraction of those rules have consequences, which she also agreed to. We established 'limits,' extension of limits, etc. She has agreed to my right to move her beyond those limits, as her comfort zone allows. She knows of my intention that, within time, there will be ********* at all.
This thread originally thought to address the question of a submissive's '...bottom line limits that you will obey and when do you put a stop to it at what point in your life....
Let me say that it is MY THOUGHT that a submissive retains control of all that she cares to in a D/s relationship. A submissive seeks out a confident, caring male to give 'the gift' of her submission. Until she finds that person, gains confidence in his ability to control, care for, provide security, and other elements that 'she needs,' her total submission is held in reserve. Conversely, the Dominant who doesn't have a submissive who will serve him, is just another 'confident, caring person.
To illustrate, I will provide this example of a scene which I HAVE PERSONALLY OBSERVED of an obvious D/s relationship.
One Sunday morning in northern Virginia (Crystal City,) about 1.5 miles from the Pentagon, I had just left my office, and was in my vehicle driving past one of the many government-leased buildings which dominate the area. I observed a male/female couple walking along the virtually empty sidewalk. He was well dressed, wearing a dark suit, tie, and even a hat. His companion was also well-dressed, but her attire was definitely that of a 'Daddy's girl,' a mid-thigh short skirt, her hair nicely combed, with a ribbon in it. She also wore black heels, nicely adorned with ankle-hi SOCKS. What made it blatantly D/s though, was the riding crop which he held rigidly in his hand, and the submissive collar which nicely completed the effect for her.
I recount this here, because of the question muleman posed. 'Limits you will obey...' One might automatically think this was a Dominant orchestrated scene, but that was not necessarily so. It is just as likely that THE SUBMISSIVE suggested that he use her in such a manner. That's one thing about the lifestyle. Submissives WANT to be used to varying degrees of kink. Subordinating themselves to a Dominant and allowing him to control her is an effective way to those kinks done. IOW, the Dominant can be used as a 'TOOL' by the submissive to realize her need to indulge her kinks.
This is gross but I seen a post here of a lady that was eating vomit out of a dog bowl and then being led around and fucked by a couple of brothers. Now this is what I mean I just don't how anyone could be so submissive as to be led to do these things. To me this is like if someone told you to eat shit you would do it and there are people that dominate a person to do this. Granted this might be of the extreme but it does happen. I just don't see how anyone could be controled that bad and be so submissive.
