capital punishment
- Thread startermuleman
- Start date
Mocha_Latte
State sponsored murder is wrong in all cases. Abortion and the death penalty are exactly the same. What is accomplished by trading one life for another? Nothing! Both cheapen life, making it a commodity instead of a unique, priceless gift. Whether it be from nature or God, whichever one choses to believe.
State sponsored murder is wrong in all cases. Abortion and the death penalty are exactly the same. What is accomplished by trading one life for another? Nothing! Both cheapen life, making it a commodity instead of a unique, priceless gift. Whether it be from nature or God, whichever one choses to believe.
I am for the CP option in the cases of heinous or predatory crimes that can be proven with dna or conclusive evidence. As far as the add on of the abortion issue, I believe it's wrong because it's used as lazy people or self-pleasure birth control. It's not a crisis, only selfish and that's wrong. Too much free and diverse methods of bc available. But back on point, I agree with Pimp; yet I also want to keep in place the option of life without possible parole because some of the scum of the earth want to go out to the beyond and they should be made to stay around and deal with their miserable life daily.
Great topic to throw in Muleman.
Thanks
Great topic to throw in Muleman.
Thanks
Thank you for your post but I really don't agree with you as I think abortion is a seperate issue from cp. Also I don't see where someone that rapes and kills a seven year old girl or child of any age is a priceless gift to society. Or serial killers. If I recall the last figure on death row in this country is 3034 people waiting to be executed all of these aren't priceless commodities or gifts to us they are a big expense and burden to our society that is my thought and with dna that without a doubt they belong on death row why should the country be burdened with the expense of keeping these gifts and is it fair to the families that these gifts take a life from them.mocha_latte said:
Mule, I am a little to the right politically of Genghis Kahn so I think we can execute a good 500 people a week in this country. Life without parole? Does that stop them from killing again in prison? Does that make life easier for the prison guards? What are you going to do give him more life if he kills again? At $50,000 a year cost to the taxpayers?
Whether or not the person is innocent, whether or not the notoriety of the crime, CP is wrong. The power and the mysteries of death should not placed into the hands of man. Yes, there are too many people in prison. The so-called war on drugs has filled them up, leaving less room for the violent offenders. Filling their veins full of dope is letting them off too easy anyway. Let them rot in some hole for the rest of their lives and let the men and women who smoke a few joints out, and find a way to treat those addicted to the hard stuff!
For serial or career criminals
I'm for capital punishment but I'm pretty fiscally conservative. It costs more in legal, administrative, and logistic fee to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life.
I do believe that someone can commit a murder and be rehabilitated. I don't support capital punishment for the person who through passion, or anger or whatever committed a murder and was not a career criminal.
However, I believe people like the serial killer or the guy with the long rap sheet make good candidates for capital punishment. And I don't think it needs to be painless like lethal injection.
I'm for capital punishment but I'm pretty fiscally conservative. It costs more in legal, administrative, and logistic fee to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life.
I do believe that someone can commit a murder and be rehabilitated. I don't support capital punishment for the person who through passion, or anger or whatever committed a murder and was not a career criminal.
However, I believe people like the serial killer or the guy with the long rap sheet make good candidates for capital punishment. And I don't think it needs to be painless like lethal injection.
To Will & Eve: My point is that all life is sacred, from birth to death. When the state decides who is "worthy" of life, that's where the trouble begins.
The overwhelming majority of those put to death are those who can not afford the best criminal defense, unlike O.J., Phil Spector, and Robert Blake! Also, those whose victims' lives are more treasured, -i.e. Caucasians, women, children and the elderly- are more likely to be executed.
When I see poor, black, defendents, or poor people in general, getting Ron Shapiro and Johnny Cochrane as lawyers, maybe I'll revisit the issue. When I see the murderers of young black men routinely sentenced to death, maybe I'll revisit the issue.
The overwhelming majority of those put to death are those who can not afford the best criminal defense, unlike O.J., Phil Spector, and Robert Blake! Also, those whose victims' lives are more treasured, -i.e. Caucasians, women, children and the elderly- are more likely to be executed.
When I see poor, black, defendents, or poor people in general, getting Ron Shapiro and Johnny Cochrane as lawyers, maybe I'll revisit the issue. When I see the murderers of young black men routinely sentenced to death, maybe I'll revisit the issue.
all the anti cp advocates can bledd there hearts all they want. yes i understand that the poor dont have dream teams. but i dont think about the criminals, I think of the victims. pot smokers arent taking up prison cots...you have to do so much shit just to get put in prison. we could easily cut crime in this country if we wanted too, but then again that would mean an eye for an eye mentality and i know you people cant stomach that. its not that i want to "kill" people for revenge...i want to protect and make life safe for teh law abiding people like myself. and call it cold hearted whatever...I much rather take that 40+K a year of taxpayer $$ it cost to house each and every prison inmate and use it for better means.
muleman said:
I think when we have someone dead to rights, who has committed a murderous act, we need to publicly execute them in swift fashion. None of these 11th hour heroics should be tolerated. We have cable channels for everything. How about the Execution Channel? There are way too many people out there committing the most disgusting, unforgivable crimes. If they could just see what will happen to them, maybe it would get them to think twice. Who knows? Anyway, this is not the kind of stuff we should be talking about in a sex room. That having been said, here's a pic of me being properly screwed. Hope you enjoy!
Anna
http://www.darkcavern.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=64584&stc=1&d=1200828907
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mocha_latte said:
Amen Mocha latte, you have stated my feelings right down to the "nats ass". It is simply a shame to see the unjust judicial system in our great USA. If you are poor you are going to jail and if you have enough money for a good lawyer you'll "walk" or you will get a more favorable outcome than the poor.
To Anna_mwf:
Having them "dead to rights" is still problematic. In this country, I assume you're American, we have what is known as a constitution. It guarantees that no one shall be put in danger of life without due process.
Therefore, lawyers and courts are involved. Those with good lawyers - and they don't come cheaply - can get vigorous defense and get that needle out of their arms.
O.J. Simpson, Robert Blake, Lizzie Borden, et. al, were thought to be "dead to rights" guilty. They had good lawyers. Unless there are three witnesses seeing the murderer standing over the victim with a dripping knife, all evidence can be argued as circumstantial. Remember the Rodney King video?
Having them "dead to rights" is still problematic. In this country, I assume you're American, we have what is known as a constitution. It guarantees that no one shall be put in danger of life without due process.
Therefore, lawyers and courts are involved. Those with good lawyers - and they don't come cheaply - can get vigorous defense and get that needle out of their arms.
O.J. Simpson, Robert Blake, Lizzie Borden, et. al, were thought to be "dead to rights" guilty. They had good lawyers. Unless there are three witnesses seeing the murderer standing over the victim with a dripping knife, all evidence can be argued as circumstantial. Remember the Rodney King video?
Seems like the death sentence hasn't worked as a deterrent up to now, the argument that it's a deterrent doesn't seem valid to me. Since it actually costs more to execute someone than a lifetime of prison, saving money doesn't seem like a valid reason for it to me. Since the vast majority of executed criminals are minorities and poor, I can't shake the feeling that it's not justice. Since no other country in the developed world has executions, doesn't seem civilized to me.
Are we going to be the last country in the developed world to eliminate capital punishment as we were the last to eliminate slavery?
As a side note, I think I just read that 60% of all executions in this country occur in Texas. I found that interesting....
Are we going to be the last country in the developed world to eliminate capital punishment as we were the last to eliminate slavery?
As a side note, I think I just read that 60% of all executions in this country occur in Texas. I found that interesting....
SaltandPepper98 said:
With you all the way "Genghis"! (I understand that Khan avowed he derived his greatest pleasure from seeing his victims' "near and dear bathed in tears.")
First, to dispose of the theistic component , I don't subscribe to a god myth, so the argument for revering all life as a sacred generation of some deity is irrelevant.
And, please, before the knees start a-jerkin', note I do find the beauty and uniqueness of all life extraordinary and worth exceptional investment to cherish and preserve. In general.
But there are exceptions, and we as thinking, rational, self-aware beings have every right to define what we will accept or prohibit in our societies and how we will go about removing from those societies those members that prove a danger to the rest of us.
Life without parole effectively removes these components from general society, but as S&P points out, makes it difficult for prison guards. Of course, that argument is as valid as the one insisting we should outlaw smoking in restaurants and bars because the wait staff is ******* to smoke: If you don't like the conditions at work, don't work there.
(No I'm not a smoker and I did vote to outlaw smoking in all restaurants, but not because the employees are ******* to smoke. Its their free choice to work there. The conditions of the job aren't kept from them. Should we outlaw the grill, too, because it makes them hot? I voted to outlaw smoking because not smoking is not an imposition on other people, while smokers can't control the products of their behavior, which removes choice from others.)
The stronger argument is that $50,000.00 per inmate per year burden placed on the very society from which the criminal is removed. I can't tell you how I resent being ****** to support these men and women, disenfranchised from society, damaging and killing innocents, but hypocritically hiding behind the very laws they detest when the time comes for "criminal justice" to shield them. You don't encapsulate a cancer and keep it alive. You terminate it.
Capital punishment is the only answer for taking a life, because it is an unforgivable offense. The state can't forgive it, family, friends or loved ones can't forgive it. Only the victim of a crime of any kind can forgive the perpetrator of the crime against them. And the victim is dead. No forgiveness possible.
So let the lights flicker and dim. Let the chemicals flow. I'd gladly volunteer to push whatever button they use to get the job done.
Regarding cost of death penalty vs. life imprisonment -
"A New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that the state's death penalty has cost taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. "
http://www.njadp.org/forms/cost/Final Exec summary.html
"In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases. The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000."
http://www.kslegislature.org/postaudit/audits_perform/04pa03a.pdf
"Total cost of Indiana's death penalty is 38% greater than the total cost of life without parole sentences"
http://www.in.gov/cji/special-initiatives/law_book.pdf
"The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than the a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment "
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/northcarolina.pdf
"According to state and federal records obtained by The Los Angeles Times, maintaining the California death penalty system costs taxpayers more than $114 million a year beyond the cost of simply keeping the convicts locked up for life. This figure does not count the millions more spent on court costs to prosecute capital cases."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/18/n...b5b32ed6fbeffd5c&ex=1261112400&partner=rssnyt
"A New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that the state's death penalty has cost taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. "
http://www.njadp.org/forms/cost/Final Exec summary.html
"In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases. The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000."
http://www.kslegislature.org/postaudit/audits_perform/04pa03a.pdf
"Total cost of Indiana's death penalty is 38% greater than the total cost of life without parole sentences"
http://www.in.gov/cji/special-initiatives/law_book.pdf
"The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than the a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment "
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/northcarolina.pdf
"According to state and federal records obtained by The Los Angeles Times, maintaining the California death penalty system costs taxpayers more than $114 million a year beyond the cost of simply keeping the convicts locked up for life. This figure does not count the millions more spent on court costs to prosecute capital cases."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/18/n...b5b32ed6fbeffd5c&ex=1261112400&partner=rssnyt
