Denial 2015

[SoonToBe]

Well, I can see your point, but I don't get that feeling from Sue and I guess, what I'm not considering is how Paul might have felt and maybe how it confused him a bit more? At the time it really was Sue leading the way and I thought, taking her lead in her wanting things to be more explicit or more in general, but maybe I misread that? Not sure.

And no, it wasn't like I came all over the place - and it wasn't near them and it was on the bedspread, not the blankets or sheets, so again, maybe you're reading more into it than was. So I can see maybe he's not content with what's going on. I don't mind apologizing for intruding - maybe I can make that part of greeting him as he is coming over again this Saturday.

Thing is, the other parts of what I didn't get to in what we talked about is that she'd like to change the schedule with him. So we talked about that for a while. She said that while she loved being with him at our place, she recognizes it's also pretty intrusive on our lives together so she said she'd like to see him somehow for 2 nights during the week and she said she'd like to start staying over again too. It was how she said it that really struck me, as if it were just something commonplace.

I can't recall the exact words she used but she said some things to me that led me to believe that this isn't going to last all that long. Just something she said about the summer and "not sure of what will be" and it wasn't meant in context about me, it was definitely about Paul. Now maybe it's me reading into things but I am seeing this as maybe the start of the split between them? Or at least the first cracks. See, from what I think, Sue liked the time away skiing and from how she's been with me and how she's referred to things when we talk about them, that she liked it. She still teases me about liking "watching me that night" and how seeing me so turned on was hot for her. And when she spoke of spending the night with him, she fondly mentioned wanting to "pack a few things to leave there" and how she said it was obvious, at least to me.

I do agree that perhaps I should maintain a more true beta role though? Not sure, again, she's only said that it turns her on to know i'm there but hasn't really said much more other than that, all she'll say is that it's all just mixed up to her when he's fucking her. Funny, because I would have been content with what I'd expected from the weekend, to hear a lot and see very little of them together.

 

[Knk069]

Well, I typed this before Steve replied. But here goes anyway.

Jax and Harry. While we wait for Steve's reply, I want to say that I disagree that Steve acted inappropriately during the ski weekend. The weekend sessions have included Steve from the start. Paul has been okay with that until recently. Sue has encouraged Steve to show how excited he is watching them by letting go and cumming in front of them. The problem is that Paul has fallen in love with Sue, whether he/Sue acknowledge it to Steve. Paul now wants to have Sue to himself. When Paul says to Sue that he doesn't want to feel like performing in front of Steve, I suspect he is really saying "I don't want Steve there because it reminds me that you are not mine alone." Maybe that is what Paul has said to Sue and she has conveyed the sanitized version to Steve while she works things out with Paul.

You are probably right that Steve can expect to see less of their sessions. Sue will likely bend to Paul's pressure to maintain the sexual relationship. But she probably won't let it get to the point where Steve is completely out of the picture as I suspect Paul would like. Paul has it great - what man in his mid40s gets that much hot sex. It is hot enough that he forgoes masturbation for several days just to be fired up for his time with Sue. He should be thankful and not push for too much. I thought the alpha/beta roles were for Sue's sexual favors, not for her heart. I think Steve is the alpha in the love department and that bugs Paul.

Added after reading Steve's post:
It sounds like Sue is giving in to Paul wanting more "alone" time with her. She seemed to drop the midweek stayovers recently. Now it comes up again after he complains about Steve being present. I can't blame her for working on maintaining the connection with Paul. The question is how far will she go and how long this will last. Paul could blow a great thing if he is not careful.

 

[peakmb]

Steve,
Could you clarify the schedule change? It could be read either way. Is it that she will be seeing Paul during the week at his place but not at all at the weekends, or are they included too. If the former, it is starting to look more like the pattern with Robert where she saw him exclusively at his place and elsewhere but without you at all.

As others have said, it does look as if Paul is starting to get more exclusive feelings towards Sue. Understandable, but he knew the deal going in, he's just seen so much development already maybe he thinks he can get this. The thing is, ALL the alpha stuff so far has come from Sue alone, Paul has simply been a cipher to her desires. It's a bit late now for him to be trying to get any degree of control really. It's likely to implode earlier than it would otherwise. It may be that Sue wants to stick to the sex alone by being at his place whilst shielding you from Paul's pleas for more say in things. I suspect you would find it difficult to stay beta if you felt she was in any way arguing with him. None of that would end well but this way she gets what she wants for a bit longer, even if it's not sustainable.

 

[golfman2315]

Well, I typed this before Steve replied. But here goes anyway.

Jax and Harry. While we wait for Steve's reply, I want to say that I disagree that Steve acted inappropriately during the ski weekend. The weekend sessions have included Steve from the start. Paul has been okay with that until recently. Sue has encouraged Steve to show how excited he is watching them by letting go and cumming in front of them. The problem is that Paul has fallen in love with Sue, whether he/Sue acknowledge it to Steve. Paul now wants to have Sue to himself. When Paul says to Sue that he doesn't want to feel like performing in front of Steve, I suspect he is really saying "I don't want Steve there because it reminds me that you are not mine alone." Maybe that is what Paul has said to Sue and she has conveyed the sanitized version to Steve while she works things out with Paul.

You are probably right that Steve can expect to see less of their sessions. Sue will likely bend to Paul's pressure to maintain the sexual relationship. But she probably won't let it get to the point where Steve is completely out of the picture as I suspect Paul would like. Paul has it great - what man in his mid40s gets that much hot sex. It is hot enough that he forgoes masturbation for several days just to be fired up for his time with Sue. He should be thankful and not push for too much. I thought the alpha/beta roles were for Sue's sexual favors, not for her heart. I think Steve is the alpha in the love department and that bugs Paul.

Added after reading Steve's post:
It sounds like Sue is giving in to Paul wanting more "alone" time with her. She seemed to drop the midweek stayovers recently. Now it comes up again after he complains about Steve being present. I can't blame her for working on maintaining the connection with Paul. The question is how far will she go and how long this will last. Paul could blow a great thing if he is not careful.

Have to agree with KnK here. Paul has been putting out these signals for some time IMO. I sensed it in some comments to you. If it weren't for the good sex I suspect that Sue would shut this down and if someone were to come along that she were to be interested in that would seal Paul's fate.

I would also add that you guys have been pretty fortunate that none of the past lovers have become overly obsessive with Sue mainly because there were always built in factors to only allow things to go so far. This has always been my concern with Paul because there is nothing to keep him from ultimately wanting her for his self. I personally think weaning Paul down and casting him loose would be the best plan to avoid any issues unless Sue clearly spells out to him that this is only about sex and that things will never go further.

 

[Harry2614]

"And no, it wasn't like I came all over the place - and it wasn't near them and it was on the bedspread, not the blankets or sheets, so again, maybe you're reading more into it than was."

Well All I had to go on was what you said on 3/3/2015 #283 which was: " ..... It's going to sound weird but maybe not so - but I actually moved around and lay on my side up on one elbow such that I had an awesome view of him fucking the shit out of her. She was moaning and flopping all around - I could see (and smell) that she'd cum several times already and that another one was just around the corner. ..... He fucked her hard and deep for maybe another few minutes before I saw him punch sharply and deeply into her and I heard him grunt deeply himself. That was followed by several less intense thrusts each accompanied by a grunt that I knew meant he was coating the inside of her vagina. Seeing the tell-tale trickle oif his thick cum appear with each thrust confirmed it - and when I saw he was still hard and going at her I moved back to watch as a moment later his continued fucking, after he'd cum in her, drove her over the edge. She thrashed back and forth and thrust herself upwards at him over and over. At one point a drool appeared at the corner of her mouth as her body spasmed as he kept fucking her. Seeing her tremble beneath him drove me over the edge and for the first time I came and spurted all over the bed as I watched them. [/quote]

So you were lying very close to them. Close enough that you could see very well what was happening. Whether you 'spurted on the bed, (or have now changed it to the bed spread) is not the whole point. It, of course is that you did it so close to him. Also, 'possibly in Paul's mind,' is that you could (and may have) spurted on him, or that he may think that given another chance, you would. Many men are very squeamish about that.

Apparently, that's not a thought he wants to have, and would rather be where he can avoid it. Even if Sue did encourage you to Jack Off, where she could see you. As you say, that was her request, not his.

So after that experience, I can certainly see why Paul may be encouraging Sue to 'come to his place,' and 'stay overnight there.

Harry

 

[Jaxunman]

Harry, thank you. I am glad I was not the only one who read this the same way. Upon Steve recanting and more clearly explaining what happened, I still stand by my post. The point is still valid whether Steve sprayed down the whole room or shot a couples ropes on the bed, it was not beta behavior and it apparently made Paul uncomfortable.

I don't agree with the thinking that Paul is somehow trying to steal Sue. In a perfect world, I think Paul would prefer it better if Sue was simply a cheating wife he could share stolen bed time with. There is too much being read into Paul not wanting to be a performer for Steve and not being all that comfortable having Steve so close to him and Sue when they fuck. None of that means he has fallen for Sue and wants her for himself. It simply means he likes a little space when he is fucking Sue. Paul has had to be brought along in all this from the beginning. Constantly needing reassurance from Steve that things were cool and it was what Steve wanted. Paul had finally gotten to the point of having some confidence and had stopped asking for Steve's approval. Sue and Steve had did well in introducing Paul to their games. The ski week-end was a set back to that progress. Paul was pushed beyond his comfort zone. I think Paul is asking for more alone time to simply get things back inside his own comfort zone. Once there, I think it would be quite easy for Sue to convince Paul to slowly include Steve again.

 

[peakmb]

Alpha / Beta / Schmeeta. Steve started off uncomfortable even holding his naked cock in the room with Sue and Paul. It is Sue that encouraged him, Sue that said she wanted to see the evidence of his excitement, Sue that wanted him to come as she fucked her lover and Sue that first said it increased her own excitement to see it happen at last. So lets not punish Steve or read anything more than a poor aim into his breakthrough. The division, if there is one here, is between Sue and Paul. It may be that Sue didn't share her excitement at seeing Steve come with Paul, didn't ask him if he was comfortable with it and is now soothing him a little because he said he was but didn't know how to say it at the time. I doubt whether he thinks the ski weekend was ruined though, and I reckon he would repeat the whole thing next week given the chance, even if there are bits he would rather avoid. Lets no forget. He did get the main prize. More than once.

The surprise I have is from the chastity brigade here that usually waste no opportunity to get Steve safely into a locked CB of some sort and them missing the glorious quote from Steve where he said Sue told him that Paul shot such large volumes because he didn't jerk off during the week. Stay awake guys. Your time might come, even if you don't. I suspect pigs might fly first but you never know.

The more intriguing aspect to me are the straws in the wind that Steve is placing about the end of the affair. I wonder which part of this breadcrumb trail we get next. With Sue away this weekend, maybe Steve will update us in real time while he can. Otherwise he may be finding out on Sunday and we may not know until later next week. A bit like Steve's life really. Frustrating sometimes ....

 

[Knk069]

Harry
You might be right. Only Paul knows what he is really feeling or if he is being entirely clear with Sue about his desires. So we can only speculate. We do know that he had no problem for months with Steve being present and masturbating. It may well be a sudden distaste for seeing Steve ejaculate. We could all be right - he is squeamish about another man cumming near him AND he has fallen in love with Sue and hates the thought of someone else in a sexual situation with her.

The shift in Paul seemed to happen a month ago not the ski weekend. Early February he finally got comfortable enough to stop having to ask if things were okay. A good sign. But by mid February he was exhibiting signs of being possessive and Sue lightly applied the brakes for Steve's benefit. Since then, Paul has been asking Steve if it is okay with him. But it may be a token ask because he realizes there are limits to where things can/should go.

Since skiing, Sue missed some mid-week visits to Paul - once to reconnect with Steve and once to take care of him while he was sick, which annoyed Paul. Paul visited on Saturday but didn't stay the night - Hmmmm. Steve pretty much stayed away from them so there wasn't going to be any shooting off in their presence. Steve usually leaves them alone for their second time and/or the overnight hours, so there shouldn't have been a concern about an overnight stay. Maybe there was another reason.

Sue also had sex with Steve and let him shoot off in her mouth. Sue really wanted to have sex with Steve to reconnect. I wonder if she talks to Paul about her (few) sexual activities with Steve. That knowledge (or even lack of knowledge about it) could be causing Paul some issues.

Whatever the case, it is fun to speculate while we watch things play out in real time!

 

[Harry2614]

"Harry, thank you. I am glad I was not the only one who read this the same way. .....I don't agree with the thinking that Paul is somehow trying to steal Sue. In a perfect world, I think Paul would prefer it better if Sue was simply a cheating wife he could share stolen bed time with."

Jax, After looking back to where Sue met Paul and learned that his previous experience had been only with "cheating wives," It figures that that is where he feels most comfortable.
Ah, then, it seems likely that he would like Sue to fit into the "cheating wife" profile.

So that, may explain his desire to have Sue spend more time at his place, and hence Sue telling Steve that, She/Paul want to change their schedule to more 'during the week' stay-overs.

So I am willing to 'drop' my evaluation of Paul as becoming "possessive," and I have accordingly changed my previous post.

Cheers, Harry

 

[Harry2614]

"The more intriguing aspect to me are the straws in the wind that Steve is placing about the end of the affair. I wonder which part of this breadcrumb trail we'll get next. With Sue away this weekend, maybe Steve will update us in real time while he can. Otherwise he may be finding out on Sunday and we may not know until later next week. A bit like Steve's life really. Frustrating sometimes" ....

Peak, I am in somewhat agreement with most of what you post. (how vague can I get) But after extensive research, I am still puzzled by your statement that Sue will be 'away this weekend.' do you mean Mar. 14-15?, and where did you read it?

Stumped for maybe the first time, Harry

 

[peakmb]

Almost as stumped as me. It's my mistake. I confused Sue being away next week with Paul being at their home this weekend. I'd like to say I made it all up in some clever twist to the story but.. No excuses. Be confused no more ....

 

[Harry2614]

Whew!!! Thanks for the correction. Although there's still a lot of 'mystery's' here, at least that's not one of them. LOL

Cheers, Harry

 

[peakmb]

Steve, you remain strangely silent by your usual standards. So much going on and so little real comment about it. I hope you are okay. I also hope that, notwithstanding my previous error, you do for once get the time this weekend to update us on progress. Paul's visit tonight could be the start of a new chapter or the start of the end for him. Do let us know.

 

[SoonToBe]

Peak - just busy - running around today getting stuff for her dad's birthday next week, the old geezer still has some kick in him (well on one side at least) but he's made a pretty good comeback.

Paul will be here soon and yes, he's spending the night. Sue and I talked a bit. Turns out everyone is right to a little bit. She liked what we'd done while away skiing - all of it. He was, as others have surmised, uncomfortable with me being so on top of them. I suppose it's true, even in our house, they have a lot more room and I give them a lot more room than they had.

But the big thing she talked with me about was about my beta-wishes and whether they are really what I want. I said yes and she said that was good because she wanted to feel like she could let things escalate with Paul. She admitted that he's wanted more time with her and that's part of the thought for 2 weeknights rather than a rushed Saturday night like these have become, especially this weekend with it being daylight out for so much longer. What she did say was that she was thinking of starting in this direction sooner than she'd been thinking and she mentioned "wanting to enjoy it before the kids get home for the summer". She hugged me and asked me if I was ready. I knew what she was asking and I told her that we needed to talk about it. She seemed like a little kid in her giddy response when I added "I'm not saying no, I just think we need more than just an afternoon to talk about it". She kissed me and hugged me and said that I was right and that she was just caught up in being excited about Paul coming over tonight and she admitted she'd missed him.

That was when we just got home - right now she's downstairs cleaning things up in eager anticipation. I told her I was horny already and she giggled and said that I would have time later to enjoy myself when she was doing the same. I'm so hard right now waiting for him to get here. She has on a pair of silky pink panties and a matching bra that has a nice lacy top. Sexy but not slutty. She has a button-up top on and a very easy to remove skirt.

I'm on edge right now so I'm going to click send right now and then pace the floor waiting for him to get here.

 

[SoonToBe]

They're downstairs right now watching a semi-romantic movie - one of Sue's favorites - The Thomas Crown Affair with Pierce Brosnan.
The sex scenes with Rene Russo ARE very arousing for sure. It always makes her very wet watching. She said I should feel free to watch them later tonight but she admitted that Paul is more comfortable when he's not as aware of me being there. I had asked that I thought he sort of enjoyed "showing off" to me while he was fucking her and she said that he did, but that he needs to get more used to it.

I"m kind of on pins-and-needles right now waiting for him to seduce her but I wanted to give them some alone time too. Yes, it's possible they'll fuck right there in the den on the couch so I want to kind of be around in case things get started. I am so horny I can't wait to jerk-off. And yes, it's a moment like this when I'll say it - it sounds crazy - but I really do want to jerk-off tonight and I think even if she offered me seconds, that I might actually turn her down. Can't explain it but it is how I feel. Gotta run

 

[peakmb]

Sunday morning. You still have to endure and be excited by the morning rituals around the bathroom and breakfast for the lovers. All the time knowing the 'talk' is coming up. It seems a little strange. In the last few weeks you have essentially been completely cut off and have not initiated sexual contact with Sue. Yet she has with you on the basis that she needed it. So what has changed. Were these just pity moves? Curious and curiouser said Alice...

 

[Knk069]

Steve,
Thanks for the update. I hope all went well last night and you have a productive talk today. I'm not sure what Sue means by escalating things with Paul. They seem to have escalated their sexual activities. Is a two night stayover mid-week plus Saturday night what she considers escalation? Does she mean escalation to only sex with Paul and absolutely none with you? Or, does she mean escalating their relationship so she can have that "full-blown love affair" she was talking about last year?

Do you know what is behind her desire to go in the direction sooner than she planned? It may be a combination of her increased enjoyment, but there also could be big push by Paul. It might be something to sort out. [I hear "Danger Will Robinson, danger!" in the background!]

 

[SoonToBe]

He left about an hour ago and Sue is now in the shower so I only have a little bit of time right now.

Last night was a little different as I pulled back a bit and I think it's what Paul might have needed, I watched them mostly through the doorway until they were really into it and then, I stayed off the bed and kept discrete while I went closer and watched them fucking. She was really warmed up from them watching the movie together. They looked like 2 teenagers on the couch when I peeked in, kissing passionately, her top unbuttoned and her bra unclasped and pushed up and out of the way and his hand in her panties while she had his cock in her hand stroking it. It so reminded me of 2 teenagers making out furiously.

What was a little different last night was that he really got her to a huge orgasm before he was ready and then, it was just so erotic to hear her say "it's your turn now" groggily when she caught her breath, and to then see him fuck her the way he wanted for his own pleasure. She just lay there and it was totally him including pushing her legs far back and the two of them (well all 3 of us but I stayed back and tried to be out of sight) watching him fucking her. It was really erotic for a few minutes as I could tell he was really getting himself worked up. And yes, I stayed through when he came in her. I can't explain it but I like being there when he does cum in her. It stings and twists my stomach a bit but at the same time, hearing her deep moan as she can obviously feel it and hearing him grunt - it gets me so horny to know what he's doing in her and to know what she's feeling. It was hot seeing her just letting him fuck her any way he wanted. Mostly missionary but he did roll her on to her side and he straddled her leg for a bit while he held her other leg up in the air. So hot to see her spread wide for him.

And I think that's the feeling I have right now. We didn't talk more yet but I think she wants to let this go further with Paul. I'll see if I can get her to confirm it but from what I see - I just have a feeling she knows this isn't going to be long lived. Just something about how she's talked about after the kids getting home, and now, to me, it makes sense that she might want to amp it up a bit while we still have an empty nest. We did talk about this already and I guess while I hadn't considered so soon, apparently she has.

Knk - I have to believe her when she tells me she doesn't love him. I don't see any signs of it so I'm not sure that I see the "danger danger" signs yet. I've known all along that she wanted to escalate things when she felt it was right. I can clearly see that the sex with Paul has continued to intensify and unless she's lying to me about the emotional side, I'm not sure that her hope is for this big-full-blown-affair thing, or whether she now just wants the sexual intensity of that. The thing is that I don't know that I"m ready for this just yet though. I mean a part of me definitely would love to hear her tell me that she only want sex with Paul and that I'm on my own for a while. I can't explain it any more than I couldn't in the past, but I do want to hear her say that and to want it for herself.

Peak - I'm really taking my revelation about pressuring her sexually to heart and laying off any attempt at initiating sex with her. I guess maybe it's just part of my wanting to fulfill my beta-desires too, it's weird to say it, but it feels good in a way to not feel I can direct my desires towards her. I still want to, my god do I ever want to, but at the same time, it is such a turn on to know that we are not being intimate right now. Seeing her let go with him last night and to see her let him have her as he wanted was really beautiful. She came with him at the end when she felt him finally push deep one last time. Even I nearly came from watching and hearing them.

She's just getting out of the shower - the water just went off so I'm going to see her.

 

[peakmb]

Steve,
Appreciate the update. Would love to know what Sue understands by 'taking it further'. Apart from simply more time spent with Paul, and this extra at his place, what would that entail differently for you? Are the mid week nights as well as weekends, or instead of them (with the change being location)? Finally, is this all Sue's idea and desire, or is it at least partly inspired by Paul?

It does look like Sue is morphing her time spent with her lover into something more akin to her pattern with Robert. Something which I can understand is both easier to bear in some respects but not altogether.

 

[Mundyman]

Wow Steve, what a ride, what a journey, thanks for sharing. I'll be honest and say that I can't quite wrap my head around what your thoughts and motivations are for doing this, or what exactly you get out of it. I do understand though to a certain point. I hope you continue to get out of it what you wish.
That said I would hope you become more vigilantly cautious and careful. I sense that Sue, in what you've shared since February, is growing closer to Paul but is afraid to let go for fear of hurting you. I sense a dam about to burst and once it does you won't know what hit you or how quickly. I don't think its Paul's fault as he has been encouraged by both of you to be the alpha. As the alpha he may be pushing Sue for more time. Is there any chance that when she says they both think its not good for an overnighter on a Tuesday, its really only her that says that while at the same time he's pushing for more? Since you don't talk to him as much could Sue be not sharing all they talk about, or what he wants, because she doesn't want to have you cut off their relationship. She could be telling Paul to be patient as she brings you around to accepting his full ascendency to alpha status in your relationship. Women have been known to play that game. I guess you shouldn't be surprised or put off when he acts like the alpha and gets irked when she skips their arranged meeting days.
I also sense that Sue enjoys aspects of your discomfort at being denied in a very femdom/subcuck way. It appears every once in a while when you share you conversations. Sometimes when Sue asks if you're ready for the next steps, if she's not wanting to explore her darker side of denying you and really getting off on it. Has she talked about dominate fantasies with you, or ideas of a female lead relationship?
Only you truly know what's going on as you share with us only a snapshot of your relationship and not everything. Could it be that she has grown as close to loving as possible and is now working on your beta desires to get what she wants; and that is a full blown sexual and emotional fling/relationship with Paul? That she wants to do that one more time, feel those feelings for another man again, grow that close to another man again, be consumed by another man again, all the while knowing and confident that you her beta, her committed partner, her roommate and best friend will be there when and if this burns out?? Have you been put in the friend zone by your own wife?
Lastly, do you have any sense if they are communicating between themselves, without your knowledge? Whether it be separate cell phones you don't know about, separate unknown email accounts, or at work using work technology?
I wish you luck Steve. Your trust level is off the charts on this one as you can only go by what your wife says and does. And right now she seems conflicted with letting go to a degree you may not be aware of or ready for. And while Paul seems like a good time Charlie, I always worry about a guy who goes out his way to say "this only about the sex", and "I could never come between what you two have". Hmmmmmmmm
I check everyday for updates on your journey as I find this the most compelling and interesting post going right now. Thanks again for sharing.