New experience for us
- Thread starterSoonToBe
- Start date
Hey all. Thanks for the well wishes for the weekend. It was good timing for us to get away for a few days - some "us" time before jumping more fully into this thing with Frank. It obviously ****** us to take the time to really talk things out and it gave me some new insight into what's going on in Sue's mind.
Before going to that, I wanted to share a bit of what Sue told me went on after I'd left Thursday evening. Apparently Frank was all nervous when I left and she said he started saying that he "can't do this" and all of that sorts of stuff. She tried to calm him down and it took her getting undressed to get him to finally relax and even then she said the sex was just okay as all he could then think about was how it was going to be when I came back. It was Sue who wanted me to come back inside when she called me as she felt it was important for me to personally tell Frank it was okay. She said she got a "private" email from him where he said he was still a bit unsure about things but that I definitely had made him feel more okay.
I received a couple of PM's since last Thursday, some were just well-wishes but others had questions and ideas, some of which Sue and I discussed this weekend.
Some of the PM content made me realize I hadn't shared all of the info about Sue and Frank. I did share about how she views him as a true friend and not a competitor to me and how she doesn't feel the romantic love for him that she thinks would be threatening to us. But the other thing I didn't share, which may also be something - as discovered over the weekend - that makes me feel better about all of this too. They are not the proverbial smitten lovers. She's actually said that she likes kissing him and such, but that she doesn't feel the need for that level of emotion with him - that they are much more physical together than emotional. One of the PM's to me asked how I was going to feel if they were lying around kissing/making-out in front of me.
I didn't necessarily need to ask Sue in that I knew that outside the time they're truly having sex (or just getting started), that they don't spend their time embracing. But I can also now add that Sue clearly said that she hoped that just as they do now when they're alone, that I would be okay with them in their "post-coital" time being that close. I reminded her that I've seen her in those moments already many times as she'd never held back with Don or Brad and she giggled and said she wanted to make sure of it as that's the moments when she wants that type of closeness. She joked that they'd probably be under the blankets anyway.
But what I think is perhaps most amazing is what Sue explained to me in how she feels now with Frank and me. It took her a little while to make me okay with it all but the gist of it is that she looks back with a lot of fondness over what she's done and experienced with Brad and Don. Seeing the glow on her face as she now looks back at who she was just a few years ago and who she is now is something that is just so satisfying. I think it's wonderful to see your wife and partner grow over time like this at a point when so many others seem to wither with age.
She openly admits she put herself in a lot of possible jeopardy in both of those relationships. From thanking me for letting her do what she did with Brad, the risks and the level of emotions she felt - to her disbelief over what I tolerated or even encouraged in a way with Don (by not really ever saying no) - she says she now realizes a lot about herself.
The thing that she surprised me with when she finally came out and said it clearly is that she looks back on all of that past and she feels like it was the guys that had to lead her or, in Don's case, tell her they wanted from her. At the time she says she felt sort of powerless to say no. I told her that I thought she was enjoying it and she says that she was but in a way that she enjoying it for them. I told her "yeah, well you sure seemed to enjoy" and she told me that it's one thing for a guy to make her cum - but it's another thing for her to cum as part of sex. I didn't fully understand until she explained that she looks back on all of what she'd done with Brad and then Don and she explained it like this.
With Brad, she says it was all so new that she really didn't know what she was feeling. She loved that she had so many "firsts" with Brad but now wishes that she'd had the time/experience/maturity she now has to have more fully enjoyed it all. The newness of it all seems to have, as she put it, kept her preoccupied and her constant fear and worry about me at the time also served to keep her from fully enjoying it. I told her that I surely couldn't tell it at the time, that from what I remembered, she would definitely come home sexually satisfied - and that's what led to that comment about her doing it more for them and feeling satisfied more for them.
We talked about Don too. She is still kind of scared at how she felt with him at times and how sexually possessed she remembers feeling with him. She genuinely says she couldn't say no to him for most things and she confessed that there was a point in time where she had considered giving herself to him exclusively and cutting me off because he'd asked for it. I told her that I probably wouldn't have accepted that and that was her turn to giggle at me and she said "well, you did for a while every now and then". Maybe what I heard in her was remorse in a way as she said that despite what he'd done with and to her sexually, that she feels she did it all for him. It was, as she put it, wonderful at times, but she also said that she feels he totally led her and led her to what he'd wanted, not necessarily things that she'd wanted, or at least not at the time.
More in a bit after my conference call for work in a bit.
Before going to that, I wanted to share a bit of what Sue told me went on after I'd left Thursday evening. Apparently Frank was all nervous when I left and she said he started saying that he "can't do this" and all of that sorts of stuff. She tried to calm him down and it took her getting undressed to get him to finally relax and even then she said the sex was just okay as all he could then think about was how it was going to be when I came back. It was Sue who wanted me to come back inside when she called me as she felt it was important for me to personally tell Frank it was okay. She said she got a "private" email from him where he said he was still a bit unsure about things but that I definitely had made him feel more okay.
I received a couple of PM's since last Thursday, some were just well-wishes but others had questions and ideas, some of which Sue and I discussed this weekend.
Some of the PM content made me realize I hadn't shared all of the info about Sue and Frank. I did share about how she views him as a true friend and not a competitor to me and how she doesn't feel the romantic love for him that she thinks would be threatening to us. But the other thing I didn't share, which may also be something - as discovered over the weekend - that makes me feel better about all of this too. They are not the proverbial smitten lovers. She's actually said that she likes kissing him and such, but that she doesn't feel the need for that level of emotion with him - that they are much more physical together than emotional. One of the PM's to me asked how I was going to feel if they were lying around kissing/making-out in front of me.
I didn't necessarily need to ask Sue in that I knew that outside the time they're truly having sex (or just getting started), that they don't spend their time embracing. But I can also now add that Sue clearly said that she hoped that just as they do now when they're alone, that I would be okay with them in their "post-coital" time being that close. I reminded her that I've seen her in those moments already many times as she'd never held back with Don or Brad and she giggled and said she wanted to make sure of it as that's the moments when she wants that type of closeness. She joked that they'd probably be under the blankets anyway.
But what I think is perhaps most amazing is what Sue explained to me in how she feels now with Frank and me. It took her a little while to make me okay with it all but the gist of it is that she looks back with a lot of fondness over what she's done and experienced with Brad and Don. Seeing the glow on her face as she now looks back at who she was just a few years ago and who she is now is something that is just so satisfying. I think it's wonderful to see your wife and partner grow over time like this at a point when so many others seem to wither with age.
She openly admits she put herself in a lot of possible jeopardy in both of those relationships. From thanking me for letting her do what she did with Brad, the risks and the level of emotions she felt - to her disbelief over what I tolerated or even encouraged in a way with Don (by not really ever saying no) - she says she now realizes a lot about herself.
The thing that she surprised me with when she finally came out and said it clearly is that she looks back on all of that past and she feels like it was the guys that had to lead her or, in Don's case, tell her they wanted from her. At the time she says she felt sort of powerless to say no. I told her that I thought she was enjoying it and she says that she was but in a way that she enjoying it for them. I told her "yeah, well you sure seemed to enjoy" and she told me that it's one thing for a guy to make her cum - but it's another thing for her to cum as part of sex. I didn't fully understand until she explained that she looks back on all of what she'd done with Brad and then Don and she explained it like this.
With Brad, she says it was all so new that she really didn't know what she was feeling. She loved that she had so many "firsts" with Brad but now wishes that she'd had the time/experience/maturity she now has to have more fully enjoyed it all. The newness of it all seems to have, as she put it, kept her preoccupied and her constant fear and worry about me at the time also served to keep her from fully enjoying it. I told her that I surely couldn't tell it at the time, that from what I remembered, she would definitely come home sexually satisfied - and that's what led to that comment about her doing it more for them and feeling satisfied more for them.
We talked about Don too. She is still kind of scared at how she felt with him at times and how sexually possessed she remembers feeling with him. She genuinely says she couldn't say no to him for most things and she confessed that there was a point in time where she had considered giving herself to him exclusively and cutting me off because he'd asked for it. I told her that I probably wouldn't have accepted that and that was her turn to giggle at me and she said "well, you did for a while every now and then". Maybe what I heard in her was remorse in a way as she said that despite what he'd done with and to her sexually, that she feels she did it all for him. It was, as she put it, wonderful at times, but she also said that she feels he totally led her and led her to what he'd wanted, not necessarily things that she'd wanted, or at least not at the time.
More in a bit after my conference call for work in a bit.
Okay - back to where I was.
Again, I need to say that it wasn't like we sat down and started talking at 9am and continued straight through till 5pm when we were done and had covered everything. I'm putting 3 days of discussion into an order that seems to make more sense instead of how it really took place - a bit of chat before bed, another bit while we ate lunch, another while we took a ski-lift, etc.
In the end, what I am just so totally thrilled to hear her saying - is that she looks back on all the stuff she's done and - mind you she wasn't totally comfortable saying this to me - she's basically saying that she looks back and knows she enjoyed things, but that she now feels that she wants to be the one who's pushing for or wanting this stuff. I wasn't totally understanding it until she gave me one example that made it clear to me. She asked me if I remembered the time with Don (duh - as if I could forget it) but specifically she asked if I'd remembered the week he found a way to be with her every day and sometimes more than once and how he wanted her to not have sex with me. I remembered it well and I told her so. She hesitated a bit before coming out and saying that she wanted to do that again, but this time, she wants it to be HER that is making the demands on her lover and she wants it to be her who decides if I have sex with her.
Good thing we were in the hotel room when she said this as the hard-on that sprouted would have been wickedly uncomfortable in ski-gear!!! I cannot describe the thrill I had hearing her say that she wants to decide what she will do sexually. I was almost scared to ask her if she was thinking of reliving that experience again from her new perspective. She giggled and simply said "definitely" and then added "of course that is if you are okay with it".
I almost told her that she shouldn't be concerned if I'm okay with it but I don't know that she's there just yet and I honestly didn't want to scare her by saying that and instead I just answered "I'm sure I'll be okay". But I know that she still wants and even needs my reassurances so that's cool. But to hear her tell me (in not so many words) that SHE is the one who wants to fuck Frank like that was just such an incredible thing. She is becoming the sexual woman I have always dreamed of - self-confident, in control and finally, not scared to want her own experiences.
Yes, it came up, as part of what she'd said about Don, about her denying me. She said that it didn't turn her on to simply deny me sex with her - that she didn't necessarily get that much of a turn-on to simply tell me no - but she admitted openly that if she's going to have sex with someone, or has already had it - that it is much more of a turn-on to her. Simply saying "no" isn't it - but she now accepts and openly admits that saying "no" to me either just before or just after she's been with Frank has become very arousing to her. But the thing is, she still needs (came out and said it) to know that it turns me on. She says that as long as she knows that it makes me horny at those times if she says no (obviously with me knowing why) that it is incredibly arousing to her. I told her it surely did and she giggled and asked me to tell her how it feels and basically to ask me almost what I wanted. It was a little awkward to say to her at first, I mean even though we talk openly about so much, it is still a little hard for me to tell my wife that I want her to deny me sex when she is with her lover - but I did relax as she was truly all ears and totally non-judgemental. I told her that it turned me on to think of her being exclusively with Frank (or whoever else) sexually for a while. I told her that the feelings I have of knowing she's fucking him and not me - whether it's a day or a week - is just so intense that it makes me want her even more. I confessed openly that the idea of just his cum being in her pussy for so long just makes me want her even more and the thought of and then finally having her again makes it all worthwhile for me. I told her the orgasms I have when I do finally reclaim her afterwards are the most intense and that somehow knowing only "he" has been in her for so long is almost perversely arousing to me.
Clearly we talked about her spending more alone-time with Frank. The whole denial conversation led to it and it clearly would have come up anyway. I told her that an overnight every now and then would probably be okay as long as we can be sure the kids don't question things. That was actually the conversation that led to our discussing how she feels about her relationship with Frank. I asked her basically if she would be spending the whole time "making out" with him and that's when she laughed and said that they don't do it that much, etc. But she openly said that she - yes SHE - wants to feel totally un-rushed when she's with him. I told her I knew that and she continued by saying how she would like to sleep and wake up with him. I asked how that was different than when she was with Brad and spent the night. She again came back by saying she was so new to it all that she now realizes she'd still been more focused on him and I than herself.
She asked me again if she could ever go away with Frank for more than an overnight, I think she knew that all of this talk had worn me down (or warmed me up!). She asked what I was worried about and reminded me that she'd been away that first time in Boston. I told her that was different, she was away legitimately and that seemed different to me than her simply planning on being away with her lover - to which she immediately asked "why"? I was stumped and I told her so - but then I acquiesced a bit and said that at least for right now, I wasn't up for it, but I did tell her that if things went okay, that maybe it'd be okay.
Now this last conversation above was yesterday and I think she'd gotten her confidence about it by then and she started to try to convince me into it. So I turned the tables on her and asked her what she was thinking and why?! She said that with how she feels about Frank, that she feels she would be able to handle and enjoy a very sexual weekend with him. She said she wasn't totally comfortable telling me that but it was the truth. She emphasized that she doesn't want to be "alone with her lover", that it isn't the emotional side of things that she's feeling she wants - but rather, as she put it, that SHE wants the sex part of it. I smiled when she said that and she said "so you do understand" and I could only nod my head yes.
So, to summarize before I logoff for lunch - she says that she wants to re-live and re-experience much of what she did with Brad and Don - but that she wants to take the lead and that with Frank, she feels that she finally can. All I can say is that I told her that I would let her know when any of it is too much - and until then, I told her that she has my love and blessing to enjoy it all.
Again, I need to say that it wasn't like we sat down and started talking at 9am and continued straight through till 5pm when we were done and had covered everything. I'm putting 3 days of discussion into an order that seems to make more sense instead of how it really took place - a bit of chat before bed, another bit while we ate lunch, another while we took a ski-lift, etc.
In the end, what I am just so totally thrilled to hear her saying - is that she looks back on all the stuff she's done and - mind you she wasn't totally comfortable saying this to me - she's basically saying that she looks back and knows she enjoyed things, but that she now feels that she wants to be the one who's pushing for or wanting this stuff. I wasn't totally understanding it until she gave me one example that made it clear to me. She asked me if I remembered the time with Don (duh - as if I could forget it) but specifically she asked if I'd remembered the week he found a way to be with her every day and sometimes more than once and how he wanted her to not have sex with me. I remembered it well and I told her so. She hesitated a bit before coming out and saying that she wanted to do that again, but this time, she wants it to be HER that is making the demands on her lover and she wants it to be her who decides if I have sex with her.
Good thing we were in the hotel room when she said this as the hard-on that sprouted would have been wickedly uncomfortable in ski-gear!!! I cannot describe the thrill I had hearing her say that she wants to decide what she will do sexually. I was almost scared to ask her if she was thinking of reliving that experience again from her new perspective. She giggled and simply said "definitely" and then added "of course that is if you are okay with it".
I almost told her that she shouldn't be concerned if I'm okay with it but I don't know that she's there just yet and I honestly didn't want to scare her by saying that and instead I just answered "I'm sure I'll be okay". But I know that she still wants and even needs my reassurances so that's cool. But to hear her tell me (in not so many words) that SHE is the one who wants to fuck Frank like that was just such an incredible thing. She is becoming the sexual woman I have always dreamed of - self-confident, in control and finally, not scared to want her own experiences.
Yes, it came up, as part of what she'd said about Don, about her denying me. She said that it didn't turn her on to simply deny me sex with her - that she didn't necessarily get that much of a turn-on to simply tell me no - but she admitted openly that if she's going to have sex with someone, or has already had it - that it is much more of a turn-on to her. Simply saying "no" isn't it - but she now accepts and openly admits that saying "no" to me either just before or just after she's been with Frank has become very arousing to her. But the thing is, she still needs (came out and said it) to know that it turns me on. She says that as long as she knows that it makes me horny at those times if she says no (obviously with me knowing why) that it is incredibly arousing to her. I told her it surely did and she giggled and asked me to tell her how it feels and basically to ask me almost what I wanted. It was a little awkward to say to her at first, I mean even though we talk openly about so much, it is still a little hard for me to tell my wife that I want her to deny me sex when she is with her lover - but I did relax as she was truly all ears and totally non-judgemental. I told her that it turned me on to think of her being exclusively with Frank (or whoever else) sexually for a while. I told her that the feelings I have of knowing she's fucking him and not me - whether it's a day or a week - is just so intense that it makes me want her even more. I confessed openly that the idea of just his cum being in her pussy for so long just makes me want her even more and the thought of and then finally having her again makes it all worthwhile for me. I told her the orgasms I have when I do finally reclaim her afterwards are the most intense and that somehow knowing only "he" has been in her for so long is almost perversely arousing to me.
Clearly we talked about her spending more alone-time with Frank. The whole denial conversation led to it and it clearly would have come up anyway. I told her that an overnight every now and then would probably be okay as long as we can be sure the kids don't question things. That was actually the conversation that led to our discussing how she feels about her relationship with Frank. I asked her basically if she would be spending the whole time "making out" with him and that's when she laughed and said that they don't do it that much, etc. But she openly said that she - yes SHE - wants to feel totally un-rushed when she's with him. I told her I knew that and she continued by saying how she would like to sleep and wake up with him. I asked how that was different than when she was with Brad and spent the night. She again came back by saying she was so new to it all that she now realizes she'd still been more focused on him and I than herself.
She asked me again if she could ever go away with Frank for more than an overnight, I think she knew that all of this talk had worn me down (or warmed me up!). She asked what I was worried about and reminded me that she'd been away that first time in Boston. I told her that was different, she was away legitimately and that seemed different to me than her simply planning on being away with her lover - to which she immediately asked "why"? I was stumped and I told her so - but then I acquiesced a bit and said that at least for right now, I wasn't up for it, but I did tell her that if things went okay, that maybe it'd be okay.
Now this last conversation above was yesterday and I think she'd gotten her confidence about it by then and she started to try to convince me into it. So I turned the tables on her and asked her what she was thinking and why?! She said that with how she feels about Frank, that she feels she would be able to handle and enjoy a very sexual weekend with him. She said she wasn't totally comfortable telling me that but it was the truth. She emphasized that she doesn't want to be "alone with her lover", that it isn't the emotional side of things that she's feeling she wants - but rather, as she put it, that SHE wants the sex part of it. I smiled when she said that and she said "so you do understand" and I could only nod my head yes.
So, to summarize before I logoff for lunch - she says that she wants to re-live and re-experience much of what she did with Brad and Don - but that she wants to take the lead and that with Frank, she feels that she finally can. All I can say is that I told her that I would let her know when any of it is too much - and until then, I told her that she has my love and blessing to enjoy it all.
STB,
I must admit to being apprehensive about Frank's reaction to the whole thing, but that must now be in the past, so well done. He appears to have bought the whole story, which puts you all in the open now. It could still come back at some future date, when he realises that Sue and yourself obviously talked about the previous times - why not this one? But he may just not want to rock the boat. I am once again (like so many others probably) both in awe of your wonderful relationship and in admiration of your willingness and skill in continuing to tell your story. It's appreciated. Thanks.
I must admit to being apprehensive about Frank's reaction to the whole thing, but that must now be in the past, so well done. He appears to have bought the whole story, which puts you all in the open now. It could still come back at some future date, when he realises that Sue and yourself obviously talked about the previous times - why not this one? But he may just not want to rock the boat. I am once again (like so many others probably) both in awe of your wonderful relationship and in admiration of your willingness and skill in continuing to tell your story. It's appreciated. Thanks.
The downside.
You wanted the true situation to be out in the open and that is mission accomplished but you have finished up with a fractured dynamic. Part of the problem is that you sold Frank on the idea of a threesome and that didn’t happen because you absented yourself for most of the evening. I think that had you returned earlier and participated, even if only in a watching capacity, then you would be in a different place than you are now.
While you were away, with Frank in such a nervous state, I can understand why Sue needed to reveal part of her history and your awareness to him but it’s a pity that happened because he will no longer feel as special as he did before. Frank will eventually gain from increased access to Sue but he has also lost a lot. Previously, at least part of his excitement/pleasure would come from the illicit nature of his trysts but now that element has gone. Even worse, before he could just enjoy the sex but now he will be very aware that details of his performance will be reported back to you, possibly with marks awarded out of ten.
I think that the ongoing situation will need very delicate handling, with a lot more awkwardness before you reach open water. To promote a level of comfort more quickly, I think you should arrange a genuine threesome as soon as possible.
You wanted the true situation to be out in the open and that is mission accomplished but you have finished up with a fractured dynamic. Part of the problem is that you sold Frank on the idea of a threesome and that didn’t happen because you absented yourself for most of the evening. I think that had you returned earlier and participated, even if only in a watching capacity, then you would be in a different place than you are now.
While you were away, with Frank in such a nervous state, I can understand why Sue needed to reveal part of her history and your awareness to him but it’s a pity that happened because he will no longer feel as special as he did before. Frank will eventually gain from increased access to Sue but he has also lost a lot. Previously, at least part of his excitement/pleasure would come from the illicit nature of his trysts but now that element has gone. Even worse, before he could just enjoy the sex but now he will be very aware that details of his performance will be reported back to you, possibly with marks awarded out of ten.
I think that the ongoing situation will need very delicate handling, with a lot more awkwardness before you reach open water. To promote a level of comfort more quickly, I think you should arrange a genuine threesome as soon as possible.
Great conversations my man! I wonder how much denial she might be into from time to time. It seems that if they are able to be together more frequently than what she was with don, the denial may be far easier to set up, for a little while 
I suspect you are going to be in for a week of denial here and there. Good for you Stb!
I suspect you are going to be in for a week of denial here and there. Good for you Stb!
Thought I'd post an update before bed and I see that others have commented so I can take a little time. Sue is sound asleep already after a very satisfying romp in bed with me. Strangely we are reversed about this at times, her falling asleep and myself oddly awake.
In reading the last few replies, I don't agree with UK and Shidave. Peak was close but the reality is 2-fold. First, despite all that's past, it is still difficult at times to watch Sue be seduced and to give herself to him. I still get the queasies thinking of the first time with Brad. But the second which was something conscious is that I didn't want to react in an inappropriate way. My feeling from knowing Frank as I do is that he would have suspected something if I was all "Mr. Relaxed" and "lets do a 3-some" on his supposed first time with her and my first time to be there.
I know you think that I've acquiesced something here by giving them their "first time" together alone, I guess we'll see what happens. The "plan" that we have is that she is going to see him this Thursday evening again. Frank has more than once stated in his Email that I am welcome to stay. My honest reply that I copied Sue on was that I want them to have this Thursday to give them time to get in sync with each other and that I would likely join them the next time. We've talked about possibly over the long holiday weekend, possibly Monday but Frank was unable to commit as of about 3 hours ago. As far as joining them, that too we've left to "whatever feels right" at the time with all of us agreeing that this would be hard to script or plan out for a first-time.
I think the other thing that I'd respond to for UK and Shidave is that I want this to be what Sue wants. I said in a PM to another member here that over the past few months, there is a tangible change in how Sue and I seem to be with each other. I think it's more on her part, that she's able to look at desires more objectively. But whatever, others have mentioned it when they see and are with us. Our kids including our son who's home from college (but virtually living at his girlfriend's until she goes back to her school next week) are spooked by it sometimes - Sue and I will finish each others sentences. But that's common. The spooky part for our kids is that Sue and I will ask the exact same things and have the exact same conversations with them totally independent of each other. It feels almost magical at times to be able to be this open and close with another person.
I will say that Frank is one of these guys you just feel at home with, someone you can be yourself with and have a great time. I can't explain it but it feels right that he should fuck her. Where I was sort of reluctant with Brad and disappointed with Don - it just feels right that they should have sex together. Not sure how I can describe it other than just good friends.
The thing that totally turns me on is that this is Sue's doing. The more I've thought about things, the more I realize that this is what it is. It is her acceptance and embracing of her rekindled sexual desires - that is just so rewarding. How better to feel about your wife and partner than to be thrilled about her rediscovery of sexual desires and pleasures. And even better to be here to reap the benefits. While we may be unconventional at times, when it is our time to be together - the sexual openness translates into intensely satisfying sex - for both of us, no doubt. Knowing that will always be there at the end - there's probably little she could truly want that I would say no to in reality. And that thought both excites me as well as scares me.
And with that, I'm signing off and heading in to spoon up behind her.
In reading the last few replies, I don't agree with UK and Shidave. Peak was close but the reality is 2-fold. First, despite all that's past, it is still difficult at times to watch Sue be seduced and to give herself to him. I still get the queasies thinking of the first time with Brad. But the second which was something conscious is that I didn't want to react in an inappropriate way. My feeling from knowing Frank as I do is that he would have suspected something if I was all "Mr. Relaxed" and "lets do a 3-some" on his supposed first time with her and my first time to be there.
I know you think that I've acquiesced something here by giving them their "first time" together alone, I guess we'll see what happens. The "plan" that we have is that she is going to see him this Thursday evening again. Frank has more than once stated in his Email that I am welcome to stay. My honest reply that I copied Sue on was that I want them to have this Thursday to give them time to get in sync with each other and that I would likely join them the next time. We've talked about possibly over the long holiday weekend, possibly Monday but Frank was unable to commit as of about 3 hours ago. As far as joining them, that too we've left to "whatever feels right" at the time with all of us agreeing that this would be hard to script or plan out for a first-time.
I think the other thing that I'd respond to for UK and Shidave is that I want this to be what Sue wants. I said in a PM to another member here that over the past few months, there is a tangible change in how Sue and I seem to be with each other. I think it's more on her part, that she's able to look at desires more objectively. But whatever, others have mentioned it when they see and are with us. Our kids including our son who's home from college (but virtually living at his girlfriend's until she goes back to her school next week) are spooked by it sometimes - Sue and I will finish each others sentences. But that's common. The spooky part for our kids is that Sue and I will ask the exact same things and have the exact same conversations with them totally independent of each other. It feels almost magical at times to be able to be this open and close with another person.
I will say that Frank is one of these guys you just feel at home with, someone you can be yourself with and have a great time. I can't explain it but it feels right that he should fuck her. Where I was sort of reluctant with Brad and disappointed with Don - it just feels right that they should have sex together. Not sure how I can describe it other than just good friends.
The thing that totally turns me on is that this is Sue's doing. The more I've thought about things, the more I realize that this is what it is. It is her acceptance and embracing of her rekindled sexual desires - that is just so rewarding. How better to feel about your wife and partner than to be thrilled about her rediscovery of sexual desires and pleasures. And even better to be here to reap the benefits. While we may be unconventional at times, when it is our time to be together - the sexual openness translates into intensely satisfying sex - for both of us, no doubt. Knowing that will always be there at the end - there's probably little she could truly want that I would say no to in reality. And that thought both excites me as well as scares me.
And with that, I'm signing off and heading in to spoon up behind her.
STB: After several days (and pages) of discussion, your last paragraph says a whole volume of what your future with Sue may have to offer. "So, to summarize before I logoff for lunch - she says that she wants to re-live and re-experience much of what she did with Brad and Don - but that she wants to take the lead and that with Frank, she feels that she finally can. All I can say is that I told her that I would let her know when any of it is too much - and until then, I told her that she has my love and blessing to enjoy it all."
That and your obvious curiosity with the situation that Rick (Wife exclusive with B F) finds himself for several months at a time, indicates that you will willingly let Sue peruse an "exclusive" affair with Frank for days, weekends and even a week or more, only because she "wants to - and loves your sexual "intensity" when she decides to end your "denial".
After weeks of planning to bring Frank into the knowledge of your "approval" then advance into the pleasures of a 3-some, that seems to have been left out and replaced with her wish to be more "in control of what she wants" including "longer denial." Denial meaning that you won't even be there to observe.
Your only objection/caution is to be careful to keep the 'obvious' from becoming the 'knowledge' of your daughter. You previously described he as being (15 going on 25). At that age and desire to experience adulthood (25), your daughter already knows more than you give her credit for and may already know why 'mom' spends most Thursdays "shopping". (BTW, from what you write, it is you that has this concern for the daughter and NOT Sue). It will be even less likely that she will accept "shopping" as an excuse several evenings a week. It would be much more "explainable" if both Mom and Dad went out "dancing" for the evening. Do you get my point?
Cheers, Harry
That and your obvious curiosity with the situation that Rick (Wife exclusive with B F) finds himself for several months at a time, indicates that you will willingly let Sue peruse an "exclusive" affair with Frank for days, weekends and even a week or more, only because she "wants to - and loves your sexual "intensity" when she decides to end your "denial".
After weeks of planning to bring Frank into the knowledge of your "approval" then advance into the pleasures of a 3-some, that seems to have been left out and replaced with her wish to be more "in control of what she wants" including "longer denial." Denial meaning that you won't even be there to observe.
Your only objection/caution is to be careful to keep the 'obvious' from becoming the 'knowledge' of your daughter. You previously described he as being (15 going on 25). At that age and desire to experience adulthood (25), your daughter already knows more than you give her credit for and may already know why 'mom' spends most Thursdays "shopping". (BTW, from what you write, it is you that has this concern for the daughter and NOT Sue). It will be even less likely that she will accept "shopping" as an excuse several evenings a week. It would be much more "explainable" if both Mom and Dad went out "dancing" for the evening. Do you get my point?
Cheers, Harry
Harry - it's interesting that your post coincided with Frank and I swapping Emails where we confirmed that the three of us will "get together" on Monday to enjoy the holiday. So, yours and UK's and Shidave's concerns will be answered then. He's now said thank-you to me so many times that I have to tell him it's enough already and he also played his part by saying that he appreciated having one more time with Sue before we all get together. He must laugh with Sue at the appearance of my apprehension and concern just as I laugh with Sue about the appearance he puts out to me. It will be nice when that part eases up.
Harry - I have said all along that I am enthused by Sue's willingness to deny me sex. As I said, we've discussed her time with Don quite a bit and she was pleased to hear me say and confirm that I enjoyed it, but made sure she knew that it was her actions that turned me on and not Don's. She blushingly agreed with me that she too found it erotic for her to have only been with Don at times. But there hasn't been any other talk from her about longer periods of denial - I apologize if I mis-conveyed it. Her talk about an overnight, weekend or possibly longer together with him got me to thinking about it openly here.
I do find Ricks thread very arousing as I can, in many ways, understand the arousal and satisfaction he gets from vicariously experiencing his wife's sexuality. But we, Sue and I, have always valued sex between us as an integral part of our relationship. To the degree that denial and everything else heightens the intensity between us, it's all good - but I know that I wouldn't and I'm quite sure Sue wouldn't ever truly want to not have sex for the types of durations that Rick enjoys - and I know that I wouldn't want her to have the depth of the emotional bonding that Rick enjoys his wife having with her lover.
But it is as I said - I would probably say yes to anything Sue wanted if I know it's truly her desire. I suppose if there was to have been a goal in all of this, my desires and what we've done, it's to get to this point where I can see her true sexual desires and needs again just as it was long ago that attracted me to her. Not just the confidence she seems to have gained but also it's the desire I see in her - as if it's making her come alive.
Which all leads me to say that my desire for her to be with Frank was not for it to always be a 3-some for us. Of course I want that some of the time, but I also want her to feel she has the freedom to do and pursue what she wants to experience and to then share that with me.
This morning after getting up I was pleased AND aroused to see that she'd gone back to her panty routine. She giggled at me as I stared at her with the towel around her waist and teased me by saying "you'll just have to wait again!" but the smile on my face and the tent in the blanket said it all. Later as she finished dressing and I was getting out of the shower I walked by her naked with my cock semi-erect and said "you know, he did say he liked it" and she knew I meant that Frank liked it when she wasn't quite so clean. She giggled again and said "maybe Monday".
She's thinks I'm doing stuff for work and she just yelled for me to come up to bed, so......
Harry - I have said all along that I am enthused by Sue's willingness to deny me sex. As I said, we've discussed her time with Don quite a bit and she was pleased to hear me say and confirm that I enjoyed it, but made sure she knew that it was her actions that turned me on and not Don's. She blushingly agreed with me that she too found it erotic for her to have only been with Don at times. But there hasn't been any other talk from her about longer periods of denial - I apologize if I mis-conveyed it. Her talk about an overnight, weekend or possibly longer together with him got me to thinking about it openly here.
I do find Ricks thread very arousing as I can, in many ways, understand the arousal and satisfaction he gets from vicariously experiencing his wife's sexuality. But we, Sue and I, have always valued sex between us as an integral part of our relationship. To the degree that denial and everything else heightens the intensity between us, it's all good - but I know that I wouldn't and I'm quite sure Sue wouldn't ever truly want to not have sex for the types of durations that Rick enjoys - and I know that I wouldn't want her to have the depth of the emotional bonding that Rick enjoys his wife having with her lover.
But it is as I said - I would probably say yes to anything Sue wanted if I know it's truly her desire. I suppose if there was to have been a goal in all of this, my desires and what we've done, it's to get to this point where I can see her true sexual desires and needs again just as it was long ago that attracted me to her. Not just the confidence she seems to have gained but also it's the desire I see in her - as if it's making her come alive.
Which all leads me to say that my desire for her to be with Frank was not for it to always be a 3-some for us. Of course I want that some of the time, but I also want her to feel she has the freedom to do and pursue what she wants to experience and to then share that with me.
This morning after getting up I was pleased AND aroused to see that she'd gone back to her panty routine. She giggled at me as I stared at her with the towel around her waist and teased me by saying "you'll just have to wait again!" but the smile on my face and the tent in the blanket said it all. Later as she finished dressing and I was getting out of the shower I walked by her naked with my cock semi-erect and said "you know, he did say he liked it" and she knew I meant that Frank liked it when she wasn't quite so clean. She giggled again and said "maybe Monday".
She's thinks I'm doing stuff for work and she just yelled for me to come up to bed, so......
I'm sorry my last post was way to blunt. I tried to erase it but was too late. Sorry STB
I'd like to re-wright it as follows:
STB: After several days (and pages) of discussion, your last paragraph says a whole volume of what your future with Sue may have to offer. "So, to summarize before I log off for lunch - she says that she wants to re-live and re-experience much of what she did with Brad and Don - but that she wants to take the lead and that with Frank, she feels that she finally can. All I can say is that I told her that I would let her know when any of it is too much - and until then, I told her that she has my love and blessing to enjoy it all."
That and your obvious curiosity with the situation that Rick (Wife exclusive with B F) who is 'denied' several months at a time, indicates that you would let Sue have an "exclusive" affair with Frank for days, weekends, even a week or more, because she "wants to - and loves your sexual "intensity" when she decides to end your "denial".
After weeks of planning to bring Frank into the knowledge of your "approval" the 3-some seems to have been left out and replaced with Sue's wish to be more "in control of what she wants" including "longer denial." without you even being there to observe.
Your only caution is to be careful to keep the 'obvious' from becoming the 'knowledge' of your daughter. At (15) your daughter already knows more about sex than you give her credit for and may suspect why 'mom' spends Thursday evenings "shopping". How will you explain several consecutive days or a weekend? It would be much more "explainable" if both Mom and Dad went out "dancing" for the evening.
Cheers, Harry
I'd like to re-wright it as follows:
STB: After several days (and pages) of discussion, your last paragraph says a whole volume of what your future with Sue may have to offer. "So, to summarize before I log off for lunch - she says that she wants to re-live and re-experience much of what she did with Brad and Don - but that she wants to take the lead and that with Frank, she feels that she finally can. All I can say is that I told her that I would let her know when any of it is too much - and until then, I told her that she has my love and blessing to enjoy it all."
That and your obvious curiosity with the situation that Rick (Wife exclusive with B F) who is 'denied' several months at a time, indicates that you would let Sue have an "exclusive" affair with Frank for days, weekends, even a week or more, because she "wants to - and loves your sexual "intensity" when she decides to end your "denial".
After weeks of planning to bring Frank into the knowledge of your "approval" the 3-some seems to have been left out and replaced with Sue's wish to be more "in control of what she wants" including "longer denial." without you even being there to observe.
Your only caution is to be careful to keep the 'obvious' from becoming the 'knowledge' of your daughter. At (15) your daughter already knows more about sex than you give her credit for and may suspect why 'mom' spends Thursday evenings "shopping". How will you explain several consecutive days or a weekend? It would be much more "explainable" if both Mom and Dad went out "dancing" for the evening.
Cheers, Harry
Harry - no harm no foul, you know I have thick skin.
We, Sue and I (and Frank) are very aware of kids and their awareness of things going on. However, our daughter seems to often be in her own world - glued to Facebook at times to the point that if we didn't pull her away, she'd probably miss meals and skip sleeping. But sexually, she's a throwback to when Sue and I were younger and quite innocent in that she is a very late-bloomer sex-wise. Sue's had open conversations with her and it's our belief that she hasn't even french-kissed with a boy yet much less anything further so her ability to see her mom's sexuality is quite limited. Still, caution is the watchword for sure.
Sue asked me this morning if I'd want to stop by Franks while she's there this afternoon. I told her that I didn't want to intrude or to give Frank any cause for concern by surprising him/them. But I did remind her to be sure to set the stage for Monday and to get Frank ready for it to be the 3 of us and for me to at least be there to 'watch' if not actually participate.
That said, it's now almost 3pm and I am quite sure that if she's not there yet, that she'll arrive at his place shortly. She said that she still enjoys being naked when she's there but that they've talked (privately obviously) about her holding back on that level of comfort on Monday and gradually working into it such as possibly her remaining naked after we have had our fun on Monday. Just talking to her and now repeating it here has me hard again.
Our daughter is staying late at school to help out with some sort of school presentation and our son is off with his girlfriend for the evening so we are sure to be able to have time together when she gets home and not have to wait until after dinner!
Gotta run for now.
We, Sue and I (and Frank) are very aware of kids and their awareness of things going on. However, our daughter seems to often be in her own world - glued to Facebook at times to the point that if we didn't pull her away, she'd probably miss meals and skip sleeping. But sexually, she's a throwback to when Sue and I were younger and quite innocent in that she is a very late-bloomer sex-wise. Sue's had open conversations with her and it's our belief that she hasn't even french-kissed with a boy yet much less anything further so her ability to see her mom's sexuality is quite limited. Still, caution is the watchword for sure.
Sue asked me this morning if I'd want to stop by Franks while she's there this afternoon. I told her that I didn't want to intrude or to give Frank any cause for concern by surprising him/them. But I did remind her to be sure to set the stage for Monday and to get Frank ready for it to be the 3 of us and for me to at least be there to 'watch' if not actually participate.
That said, it's now almost 3pm and I am quite sure that if she's not there yet, that she'll arrive at his place shortly. She said that she still enjoys being naked when she's there but that they've talked (privately obviously) about her holding back on that level of comfort on Monday and gradually working into it such as possibly her remaining naked after we have had our fun on Monday. Just talking to her and now repeating it here has me hard again.
Our daughter is staying late at school to help out with some sort of school presentation and our son is off with his girlfriend for the evening so we are sure to be able to have time together when she gets home and not have to wait until after dinner!
Gotta run for now.
After Brad, Don and Frank, you should be ready to role play a cuckold marriage ceremony with Frank being installed as the main squeeze for Sue and you down-graded to the "other husband". I would like Sue/Frank to have a honeymoon alone for 6 weeks, so they bond powerfully physically and mentally as a seperate relationship from which you never interfere. You need a solid 40-weeks without sex with Sue, so you can detach your "neediness" and "lack of having".
