Squirming sub, you have nice way with words - Erotic humility... Lol. Are you for real? First it was sexual intimacy and now it is non-verbal intimacy as well. Not only that, STB has been 'told' and not 'asked' to remain out oh thier way during thier stay. Tell me sub why is she even taking him with her if not shove it in his face. No self respecting husband would agree to it. No loving wife would do it. I haven't read about a single incident in recent past which says STB and Sue enjoy a relationship which is more passionate and loving than what she had with her future husband Paul.
Our "new norm"
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Thanks STB, ignoring me and what I have written is of no consequence to me, but STB, please pay attention to what is happening. Please decipher the meaning behind words and actions. Please understand that how escalating the things between Paul and Sue will benefit your relationship. The only thing it can do is keep you permanently aroused and out of your mind. Rest is, as it always is, your choice. My words may sound wrong, but I hope that you do understand what I want to say.
Steve,
You seem to be in that sensitive zone just after the high wears off at the moment. Perhaps a good time for quiet reflection but not nagging. Last weekend seems to have taken you to your greatest height yet. I wouldn't be surprised if you were both wanting it to happen again and worried by it at the same time. Squirmy seems to want to reassure you that going where he seems to have been for some time is ok. As it may well be for him. Raks is screaming not to go there. He can't see that any sane man would want to. Which is just his way of saying he wouldn't. Although others might put me in the doom n gloom club I don't believe I am. You are clearly loving your life at the moment. You are definitely closer to Sue. You both get on well enough with Paul. Things are good and over the last month have got better.
So why am I trying to make you pause? Well, you have expressed doubts. Can you get through a whole weekend of full on passion which excludes you? Is Sue now giving you mercy sex at least some of the time? Most crucially I believe, are you going too far to ever get back to an acceptable life without Paul? Not yet of course. Not even for perhaps a while, but at some point can you get back? The highs are addictive. To get that high next month you will have to go further, and further still the month after. This is the journey squirmy has already taken, but do you really want to go all the way? It's ok if you do, and if Sue also wants to travel that road with you at the same time and pace. The only thing I really think you should consider over these holidays is just how far you both really want to go. You have plenty of time.
By the way, for the record I can see no problem with a full on weekend away. Or a few. If you all enjoy them, great. If some aspects go too far then it gives you some limits for the future. At the moment you don't seem to have any. Learn by experience. But learn.
You seem to be in that sensitive zone just after the high wears off at the moment. Perhaps a good time for quiet reflection but not nagging. Last weekend seems to have taken you to your greatest height yet. I wouldn't be surprised if you were both wanting it to happen again and worried by it at the same time. Squirmy seems to want to reassure you that going where he seems to have been for some time is ok. As it may well be for him. Raks is screaming not to go there. He can't see that any sane man would want to. Which is just his way of saying he wouldn't. Although others might put me in the doom n gloom club I don't believe I am. You are clearly loving your life at the moment. You are definitely closer to Sue. You both get on well enough with Paul. Things are good and over the last month have got better.
So why am I trying to make you pause? Well, you have expressed doubts. Can you get through a whole weekend of full on passion which excludes you? Is Sue now giving you mercy sex at least some of the time? Most crucially I believe, are you going too far to ever get back to an acceptable life without Paul? Not yet of course. Not even for perhaps a while, but at some point can you get back? The highs are addictive. To get that high next month you will have to go further, and further still the month after. This is the journey squirmy has already taken, but do you really want to go all the way? It's ok if you do, and if Sue also wants to travel that road with you at the same time and pace. The only thing I really think you should consider over these holidays is just how far you both really want to go. You have plenty of time.
By the way, for the record I can see no problem with a full on weekend away. Or a few. If you all enjoy them, great. If some aspects go too far then it gives you some limits for the future. At the moment you don't seem to have any. Learn by experience. But learn.
Steve,
You seem to be in that sensitive zone just after the high wears off at the moment. Perhaps a good time for quiet reflection but not nagging. Last weekend seems to have taken you to your greatest height yet. I wouldn't be surprised if you were both wanting it to happen again and worried by it at the same time. Squirmy seems to want to reassure you that going where he seems to have been for some time is ok. As it may well be for him. Raks is screaming not to go there. He can't see that any sane man would want to. Which is just his way of saying he wouldn't. Although others might put me in the doom n gloom club I don't believe I am. You are clearly loving your life at the moment. You are definitely closer to Sue. You both get on well enough with Paul. Things are good and over the last month have got better.
So why am I trying to make you pause? Well, you have expressed doubts. Can you get through a whole weekend of full on passion which excludes you? Is Sue now giving you mercy sex at least some of the time? Most crucially I believe, are you going too far to ever get back to an acceptable life without Paul? Not yet of course. Not even for perhaps a while, but at some point can you get back? The highs are addictive. To get that high next month you will have to go further, and further still the month after. This is the journey squirmy has already taken, but do you really want to go all the way? It's ok if you do, and if Sue also wants to travel that road with you at the same time and pace. The only thing I really think you should consider over these holidays is just how far you both really want to go. You have plenty of time.
By the way, for the record I can see no problem with a full on weekend away. Or a few. If you all enjoy them, great. If some aspects go too far then it gives you some limits for the future. At the moment you don't seem to have any. Learn by experience. But learn.
You seem to be in that sensitive zone just after the high wears off at the moment. Perhaps a good time for quiet reflection but not nagging. Last weekend seems to have taken you to your greatest height yet. I wouldn't be surprised if you were both wanting it to happen again and worried by it at the same time. Squirmy seems to want to reassure you that going where he seems to have been for some time is ok. As it may well be for him. Raks is screaming not to go there. He can't see that any sane man would want to. Which is just his way of saying he wouldn't. Although others might put me in the doom n gloom club I don't believe I am. You are clearly loving your life at the moment. You are definitely closer to Sue. You both get on well enough with Paul. Things are good and over the last month have got better.
So why am I trying to make you pause? Well, you have expressed doubts. Can you get through a whole weekend of full on passion which excludes you? Is Sue now giving you mercy sex at least some of the time? Most crucially I believe, are you going too far to ever get back to an acceptable life without Paul? Not yet of course. Not even for perhaps a while, but at some point can you get back? The highs are addictive. To get that high next month you will have to go further, and further still the month after. This is the journey squirmy has already taken, but do you really want to go all the way? It's ok if you do, and if Sue also wants to travel that road with you at the same time and pace. The only thing I really think you should consider over these holidays is just how far you both really want to go. You have plenty of time.
By the way, for the record I can see no problem with a full on weekend away. Or a few. If you all enjoy them, great. If some aspects go too far then it gives you some limits for the future. At the moment you don't seem to have any. Learn by experience. But learn.
Peak - we have about a month before we're going away skiing so we're not rushing things nor jumping into things all that quickly.
I recognize that Raks is on the other side of the fence on all this and cannot imagine what I am feeling or what seems to turn us both on. It's not that I don't see or hear what he's saying, I just don't feel that way. That's all. Raks puts so much focus on the physical parts of our relationship and then denies what I say about how I feel about Sue and how I know she feels about me.
We have another almost 4 weeks till our kids go back off to college so things will change during this time. It's one of the reasons I also recognize why Sue pushed and did what she did this past weekend, her "last gasp" with him for a while now.
I recognize that Raks is on the other side of the fence on all this and cannot imagine what I am feeling or what seems to turn us both on. It's not that I don't see or hear what he's saying, I just don't feel that way. That's all. Raks puts so much focus on the physical parts of our relationship and then denies what I say about how I feel about Sue and how I know she feels about me.
We have another almost 4 weeks till our kids go back off to college so things will change during this time. It's one of the reasons I also recognize why Sue pushed and did what she did this past weekend, her "last gasp" with him for a while now.
Rak,
Yes I have always had a view point, in some areas is has been right on and in other areas it was a bit off. I cannot speak with Steve (STB) although I can speak from very personal experience based on my nearly 25 years of being part of the lifestyle on some level. I have been the Alpha to another couple, I have been the Alpha within prior relationships and on the flip side I have also been a the beta/submissive to another couple and to my current wife.
Yes I know what it is like to experience being Alpha/dominate and Beta/submissive and all that those roles have included over the years. When first entered this lifestyle I was arrogant, confident and at times was a bit judgmental just as you are today. Over the years I learned much more about myself, how to please those that I was with, what submissive women enjoyed, what dominate women enjoyed, how they were different in their approach to me and other men/women. Those that have an open mind within the lifestyle and take into account the differing roles, desires and needs to all involved tend to have the best experiences overall. When fantasy and reality collide they do not always go the way we would like for them to although just as with any other relationships or arrangements with the right people involved anything can be possible.
So to your points about Steve (STB), he made it very clear to Sue that he wanted to explore his beta desires, this took Sue a bit of time as she seemed to take her time with self reflection and consideration of what Steve asked for. Over a period of time Sue has become more alpha within the relationship, very much speaking her mind, expressing her own desires and needs while being consideration of Steve’s request to explore becoming more beta sexually within the relationship. If you have truly been following his threads for the last 18 months you can see this transition with a bit of role reversal of sorts as the more beta Steve became the more alpha Sue became. While Steve does not always share what happens outside of the bedroom it has been clear at least to me that Steve and Sue seem to have a very strong connection and a level of intimacy that many couples would be envious of. There are some here that seem to believe that if Steve is not having regular bare intercourse that he is losing his intimate connection to Sue. The reality is if you have taken the time to read and ask the appropriate questions, you would have realized that Steve and Sue has a deep level of intimacy even with the reduced of intercourse and the denial of being bare during said intercourse. Yes Sue has taken Paul as her primary sexual partner and within it comes to barrier free intercourse Sue is exclusive to Paul which is something that Steve has encouraged and supported. Steve has continued to embrace his beta side on a deeper level and yes Sue has been expanding upon those flexible boundaries with Steve. Steve only being in the room for portions of the sexual contact between Sue and Paul is not something new, what is new this month is that Sue has wanted to be much more open with Paul outside of the bedroom and Sue has been careful to continue to check with Steve to make sure he was okay with it.
As far as your assertion that Steve was being told, not asked to remain outside of the sexual play by Sue & Paul; did you miss the part were Steve has become the beta to Sue when it comes to this aspect of their relationship, meaning that Sue will discuss with Steve and Sue will have the final say with all things sexual unless Steve pulls the rip cord to end the current journey. As far as the phase in which Steve, Sue and Paul are entering into, I myself has been in a similar position as Steve and can relate. Instead of being the doom-n-gloom with the negative predictions, why not simply ask Steve what she wants and respect that just maybe Steve truly does find enjoyment in this direction that he has taken with Sue.
I personally think you’re out of line by even suggesting “No self respecting husband would agree to it. No loving wife would do it.“ , unless you have been in the role of a beta/submissive man you will not be able to relate and based on your remarks you have NO RESPECT for any man that would be beta/submissive to his more Alpha/Dominate wife even if it is much more subtle. I will put it out there for you, my wife and I chose to live within a Female Led Relationship/Marriage (FLR/M) which she has final say and yes we find balance within our relationship. There is a lot of respect on both side in and outside of the bedroom. We have a very strong connection and even deeper intimacy even though various levels of denial is part of our norm.
Open your eyes and mind to the possibilities. You will likely be surprised as time progresses, follow Steve’s post and enjoy reading his freely expressed thoughts and consider the emotions that he is sharing here on this forum.
Very articulate Squirmy. It's clear that you are happy in a position much further down the path than Steve currently resides. Whether he and Sue go there or want to go there remains to be seen but the current vector is certainly in the vicinity. It's comforting you can at least recommend the neighbourhood.
It seems to me at the moment that Paul, whilst remaining the cipher in this relationship, is still key to what will happen. In the chemical reactions between Sue and Steve he is the catalyst. The only thing is that as the main relationship changes and develops, so must the role played by Paul. We know Sue and Steve talk, negotiate sometimes. Maybe Paul can be ordered by Sue to a certain extent. But can he travel the whole journey without needing to get more emotionally involved? It's ok now and next month but role it forward another year. What then. As ever, it's going to be intriguing to find out.
It seems to me at the moment that Paul, whilst remaining the cipher in this relationship, is still key to what will happen. In the chemical reactions between Sue and Steve he is the catalyst. The only thing is that as the main relationship changes and develops, so must the role played by Paul. We know Sue and Steve talk, negotiate sometimes. Maybe Paul can be ordered by Sue to a certain extent. But can he travel the whole journey without needing to get more emotionally involved? It's ok now and next month but role it forward another year. What then. As ever, it's going to be intriguing to find out.
Tell me squirm, why do people have Sex? In my view it is a physical manifestation of the desire to become one. I don't mind people having multiple serial partners, but denying someone you profess to love is akin to saying that he /she no more desires the other person. Do you think Sue is denying STB, no STB is also denying Sue by having more desire for cuckold angst rather than for Sue. And if it's such a right thing to do, why not share it with kids? May be they would benefit from your experience? Can Sue tell her kids about her lover? And can she tell them that Paul is better lover than thier dad? STB you can ignore me as much as you want, what you wouldn't be able to ignore will be consequences of what you are doing. Just for a moment imagine that one of your kids discover this...
Rak - I do believe that your blowing things out of perspective and have limited respect for the fact that not every relationship is traditional. Our society has continued to evolve over the years and with that said lifestyles along with marriage dynamics have continued to evolve over those years. What was once hidden is now much more out in the open. Do you realize how many people are Swingers, Hotwifing, variation of Poly, FLR or other variation of what has commonly been called the lifestyle? I personally have known people in many relationship dynamics including all of those listed above. I have known some do to it in secret while others have done it out in the open. Yes some of those couples had adult children such has Steve and Sue which others have young children. Some have chosen to be open with there adult children while others have chosen to keep things private between those adults that are involved.
This is something that is very personal and specific to each couple and those couples should be extended courtesy and respect NOT be judged by someone that have no real knowledge of what is happening in the background. I have simply suggested that while we provide Steve with the possible caveats, possible consequences and general recommendation at times we should above all provide him with respect as he is the one that is sharing this aspect of his life with all of us.
We all have our respective point of view based on our own individual experiences and I will be leaving it just as that.
Out of respect for Steve's thread I am not going to debate the issue with you.
Let us simply enjoy Steve's thread and see how the overall relationship(s) develop between the three of them over the following year.
This is something that is very personal and specific to each couple and those couples should be extended courtesy and respect NOT be judged by someone that have no real knowledge of what is happening in the background. I have simply suggested that while we provide Steve with the possible caveats, possible consequences and general recommendation at times we should above all provide him with respect as he is the one that is sharing this aspect of his life with all of us.
We all have our respective point of view based on our own individual experiences and I will be leaving it just as that.
Out of respect for Steve's thread I am not going to debate the issue with you.
Let us simply enjoy Steve's thread and see how the overall relationship(s) develop between the three of them over the following year.
Its easy for me to say STB but when you go away with them try and enjoy it for what it is, being able to be with them and see the sexual relationship they have. It will be like enjoying a weekend long porn with you favorite actress. Btw I totally understand Paul not wanting to see you jerking off but i bet Sue enjoys it so maybe you can work out a deal with her that allows you to watch some and listen for the rest and when she is finished she can come in the guest room like she did before and help you finish. Personally, my dick would be sore by the end of the night but that would be the reason i would wear a chastity device but I know that isnt your thing! Enjoy!
Merry Christmas all.
As much as I tried to stay away from here I just had to share the most erotic gift Sue may have ever given me.
After we'd handed out all our gifts and we were relaxing after breakfast she came over to me and sat on my lap and let me peek down her robe and night-shirt as she handed me an envelope and said they were some "coupons" for next year. She told me to go upstairs and look at them and then come back down afterwards.
The first coupon said "Good for one blow-job" and at the bottom next to an asterisk it said "includes swallowing and making sure you are well drained". My cock began to throb.
I was eager for the 2nd. It said "You can put your cock in me bare" and at the bottom next to the asterisk it merely said "does NOT include cumming in me".
The third said "We will have sex when you want it" (meaning me) and at the bottom next to the asterisk it merely said "requires use of a condom".
The fourth said "We will have sex when you want it" and at the bottom next to the asterisk it merely said "one time, no condom required".
All 3 had a small "expiration date" of 12/31/2016.
My cock was throbbing and it took me a few minutes to calm down. When I came back downstairs she said that the coupons are for me for when I want her sexually. She said that she felt bad that a few times when I'd suggested we have some fun, that she had wanted me to have some fun when I wanted it.
Now all of this follows on to a gift that I offered her and which I knew she'd accept, we'd talked a lot that I'll share another day but suffice to say that one of the equally personal gifts I gave her was my agreement to continuing our condom usage in 2016. She kissed me passionately and told me a profuse thank-you for letting her have and feel something special with Paul.
As much as I tried to stay away from here I just had to share the most erotic gift Sue may have ever given me.
After we'd handed out all our gifts and we were relaxing after breakfast she came over to me and sat on my lap and let me peek down her robe and night-shirt as she handed me an envelope and said they were some "coupons" for next year. She told me to go upstairs and look at them and then come back down afterwards.
The first coupon said "Good for one blow-job" and at the bottom next to an asterisk it said "includes swallowing and making sure you are well drained". My cock began to throb.
I was eager for the 2nd. It said "You can put your cock in me bare" and at the bottom next to the asterisk it merely said "does NOT include cumming in me".
The third said "We will have sex when you want it" (meaning me) and at the bottom next to the asterisk it merely said "requires use of a condom".
The fourth said "We will have sex when you want it" and at the bottom next to the asterisk it merely said "one time, no condom required".
All 3 had a small "expiration date" of 12/31/2016.
My cock was throbbing and it took me a few minutes to calm down. When I came back downstairs she said that the coupons are for me for when I want her sexually. She said that she felt bad that a few times when I'd suggested we have some fun, that she had wanted me to have some fun when I wanted it.
Now all of this follows on to a gift that I offered her and which I knew she'd accept, we'd talked a lot that I'll share another day but suffice to say that one of the equally personal gifts I gave her was my agreement to continuing our condom usage in 2016. She kissed me passionately and told me a profuse thank-you for letting her have and feel something special with Paul.
Peak - I could not have said that any better myself. Steve does know how to keep everyone ready for the next update.
"My cock was throbbing and it took me a few minutes to calm down. When I came back downstairs she said that the coupons are for me for when I want her sexually. She said that she felt bad that a few times when I'd suggested we have some fun, that she had wanted me to have some fun when I wanted it."
Not sure I understand the grenade part. Sue said the certificates were for when Steve wants to use them because there had been times she had felt bad because he had wanted her and she ****** him to wait. Currently they are only having sex when she wants it and his gift to her was for him to continue the condom use in 2016. So not following what you guys think happened. Of course I could be wrong but I sure Steve will clear it up for us all.
Not sure I understand the grenade part. Sue said the certificates were for when Steve wants to use them because there had been times she had felt bad because he had wanted her and she ****** him to wait. Currently they are only having sex when she wants it and his gift to her was for him to continue the condom use in 2016. So not following what you guys think happened. Of course I could be wrong but I sure Steve will clear it up for us all.
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Only a moment before bed but I'm going to guess and say that Peak's reference to a grenade was to my posting where I referred to us having talked and then not revealed anything. But then I could be wrong in which case I've had the wrong thought in my head these past few days.
I hope to have time tomorrow to catch up.
I hope to have time tomorrow to catch up.
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