over for obama?

[blkoralslaveboy]

ah so no links eh? good diversion though.

Not "free republican"

Free Republic. Google it if you want to know.

As for the rest of your replies, i can only say that I've learned my lesson about political debates in most forums. The well is poisoned. Both sides have such clownish caricatures of the other side that it's pointless.

See the post directly above this one - the guy actually thinks Cheney having a hunting accident is a relevant political point. And that just after he complains of the ignorance of his fellow voter.

In an environment like that - political discussions easily turn into banging your head against a wall.

You are certainly entitled to your views, but with all due respect, I'll take the views of Thomas Sowell, or colin Powell, or Condi Rice, or J.C. Watts, or very many others over yours.It's really too bad folks can't have a respectful difference of opinion instead of painting the other side as evil or stupid or malicious or whatever.

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

ahh by the way Colin Powell, well, though republican i really doubt that he'd want his name thrown in with that lot. just a thought...after all even reps have disagreements among one another.

by the way what i think of the republicans.... "evil or stupid or malicious or whatever" is a humongous understatement. although ideally i completely agree with you. but we all have an inner thought that we can't help don't we. i choose to freely say what i have to say.

Not "free republican"

Free Republic. Google it if you want to know.

As for the rest of your replies, i can only say that I've learned my lesson about political debates in most forums. The well is poisoned. Both sides have such clownish caricatures of the other side that it's pointless.

See the post directly above this one - the guy actually thinks Cheney having a hunting accident is a relevant political point. And that just after he complains of the ignorance of his fellow voter.

In an environment like that - political discussions easily turn into banging your head against a wall.

You are certainly entitled to your views, but with all due respect, I'll take the views of Thomas Sowell, or colin Powell, or Condi Rice, or J.C. Watts, or very many others over yours.It's really too bad folks can't have a respectful difference of opinion instead of painting the other side as evil or stupid or malicious or whatever.

 

[nonaming]

A black republican is like a slave fighting for the south if you ask me.

President Lincoln was a Republican.

McCain is going to win in November and it's not going to be as close as the media would have you believe.

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

we all know how the conservative and liberal sides have moved since then. Lincoln would be considered a fanatic liberal, siding with the philosophical descendants of the great John Quincy Adams of New England. This is highs school government class my friend.

President Lincoln was a Republican.

McCain is going to win in November and it's not going to be as close as the media would have you believe.

 

[vtjames742]

we all know how the conservative and liberal sides have moved since then. Lincoln would be considered a fanatic liberal, siding with the philosophical descendants of the great John Quincy Adams of New England. This is highs school government class my friend.

If you believe the parties have switched that much, you need to study a lot more. Lincoln would join modern republicans in demanding equal treatment under the law for all- NOT special treatment. He would support equal opportunities NOT mandated equal outcomes.

Do not forget that while many democrats were fighting the civil rights legislation of the 50s and 60s, it was the republicans that helped pass the bills to get them to the president's desk. Remember the opposition included Al Gores father and Bill Clintons political mentor.

People buy into sensationalized BS that is so far from the truth it isnt even funny. When emotion overrules logic and fact, we all pay the price.

 

[powerman]

You gotta admit McCain is looking like a genius today. Picking a hot looking gun toting former beauty queen for his VP. Good move! I think it's the beginning of the end for Obama.

I would like to point out that all the senators and representaives vote with the president 90 percent of the time. 90 percent of the bills they vote on are BS( recognizing someone for a service etc.) Just point this out so you can see the spin that each party attacks with

 

[jes]

i sure hope its very well over for obama, and for good.........cant trust him.

 

[joe351]

Sarha's tits

I hope McCain ask's Sarah to show her Tits at a biker rally. Cindy looks like a drug adict that sits in a bar all day. No fat old bikers would even want to see her tits.

 

[RoSquirts]

If you believe the parties have switched that much, you need to study a lot more. Lincoln would join modern republicans in demanding equal treatment under the law for all- NOT special treatment. He would support equal opportunities NOT mandated equal outcomes.

Do not forget that while many democrats were fighting the civil rights legislation of the 50s and 60s, it was the republicans that helped pass the bills to get them to the president's desk. Remember the opposition included Al Gores father and Bill Clintons political mentor.

People buy into sensationalized BS that is so far from the truth it isnt even funny. When emotion overrules logic and fact, we all pay the price.

Interesting that you should presume what Lincoln would think today, but that's your privilege I suppose.

it's also interesting that you feel necessary to mention a few old school democrats that opposed civil rights legislation and that Republicans 'helped' pass such civil rights legislation.

The real fact is that in the 50's and 60's, both houses of Congress were controlled by Democrats for all but 2 years. If Democrats didn't want Civil Rights legisaltion passed, I'm sure it would have been easily blocked.

The Civil Rights bill of 1964 was first suggested by Kennedy(a Democrat) and then finally pushed thru Congress by Johnson(a Democrat) with the help of Hubert Humphrey(Democrat). Most Republicans voted for the bill while the southern Democrats in what was basically their last gasp opposed it vehemently.
The bill was finally approved the Senate 73-27 and the House 289-126. To present is as anything but what it was, a bipartisan effort, is a distortion of history.

To me 'sensationalized BS' is distorting facts by pointing out exceptions as if they were the rule.

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

Bravo:clap::clap:

Interesting that you should presume what Lincoln would think today, but that's your privilege I suppose.

it's also interesting that you feel necessary to mention a few old school democrats that opposed civil rights legislation and that Republicans 'helped' pass such civil rights legislation.

The real fact is that in the 50's and 60's, both houses of Congress were controlled by Democrats for all but 2 years. If Democrats didn't want Civil Rights legisaltion passed, I'm sure it would have been easily blocked.

The Civil Rights bill of 1964 was first suggested by Kennedy(a Democrat) and then finally pushed thru Congress by Johnson(a Democrat) with the help of Hubert Humphrey(Democrat). Most Republicans voted for the bill while the southern Democrats in what was basically their last gasp opposed it vehemently.
The bill was finally approved the Senate 73-27 and the House 289-126. To present is as anything but what it was, a bipartisan effort, is a distortion of history.

To me 'sensationalized BS' is distorting facts by pointing out exceptions as if they were the rule.

 

[Steed]

Get A Clue

Looks don't make a leader! Actions speak louder than words!

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

Its interesting to see you love your wallets more than your countrymen! And even then it isn't for the right reasons. It takes money to maintain the most powerful economy in the world not a bunch of cheap scape, short sighted, blind optimists with an "i'll die for my country, i'll send my children to die for their country, but don't you dare make us pay out of pocket" mentality. This is the price for living in a decent place, the price for cleaning up the mess the baby boomers are making during their stay in power so their descendants don't inherit an overused, overpopulated, and malnourished planet! Yeah there are jerks out there abusing the welfare system but guess what for every one of those there's 6 or 7 who are really in need...but you have no problem starving them just to get the ones you're focused on!
At one point the conservatives were arguing public schooling is unnecessary! Now we can all read write and do a higher level of math on average than we did back then when the system was introduced. Explains why science and technology are advancing so well. I'm sure we all agree that we are all the better for it. Just as they had no right then to denounce public education I believe you have no right to denounce public health care! Two vastly different subjects but of equal importance to the enlightenment and i dare say, the perfection of human society. I assure you cheap nearsightedness will not take us there!!!!!!

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

Why should I supply links when I'm not trying to change your mind?

perhaps because you want to be thorough... or perhaps because you want me to read them and weep... or perhaps because i might actually concede by reading them... either way you're right neither of us knows the other side will change its mind. i just think its good to have this type of discourse, no matter how assertive the language, because in the end it clears my conscience of any uncertainty i have for my candidate. really, dude, i have nothing against you even if my tone sounds aggressive...hope u know that.

 

[vtjames742]

Interesting that you should presume what Lincoln would think today, but that's your privilege I suppose.

it's also interesting that you feel necessary to mention a few old school democrats that opposed civil rights legislation and that Republicans 'helped' pass such civil rights legislation.

The real fact is that in the 50's and 60's, both houses of Congress were controlled by Democrats for all but 2 years. If Democrats didn't want Civil Rights legisaltion passed, I'm sure it would have been easily blocked.

The Civil Rights bill of 1964 was first suggested by Kennedy(a Democrat) and then finally pushed thru Congress by Johnson(a Democrat) with the help of Hubert Humphrey(Democrat). Most Republicans voted for the bill while the southern Democrats in what was basically their last gasp opposed it vehemently.
The bill was finally approved the Senate 73-27 and the House 289-126. To present is as anything but what it was, a bipartisan effort, is a distortion of history.

To me 'sensationalized BS' is distorting facts by pointing out exceptions as if they were the rule.

It may be possible that you lack the ability to read and comprehend??? I did not say all democrats voted against the civil rights legislation. My comments were in response to the individual who basically stated that republicans were adamently opposed to the advancement of blacks which is sensationalized BS. The people I mentioned were stiff in their opposition as were others. The reason to mention those is because of their close connection to modern leaders who seem to want to pretend their families or friends were champions when in fact they weren't. I'd mention Jesse Helms or some other republican but neither their families or students are running around claiming to be champions of black Americans and therefore he can be left in the past.

As an aside, Kennedy was a racist like his father. Have you have heard the tapes of him using the n word?
Generally speaking I think JFK was a decent president and he certainly had the right idea on tax cuts and national defense but let's not pretend he was something that he wasn't.

 

[vtjames742]

Its interesting to see you love your wallets more than your countrymen! And even then it isn't for the right reasons. It takes money to maintain the most powerful economy in the world not a bunch of cheap scape, short sighted, blind optimists with an "i'll die for my country, i'll send my children to die for their country, but don't you dare make us pay out of pocket" mentality. This is the price for living in a decent place, the price for cleaning up the mess the baby boomers are making during their stay in power so their descendants don't inherit an overused, overpopulated, and malnourished planet! Yeah there are jerks out there abusing the welfare system but guess what for every one of those there's 6 or 7 who are really in need...but you have no problem starving them just to get the ones you're focused on!
At one point the conservatives were arguing public schooling is unnecessary! Now we can all read write and do a higher level of math on average than we did back then when the system was introduced. Explains why science and technology are advancing so well. I'm sure we all agree that we are all the better for it. Just as they had no right then to denounce public education I believe you have no right to denounce public health care! Two vastly different subjects but of equal importance to the enlightenment and i dare say, the perfection of human society. I assure you cheap nearsightedness will not take us there!!!!!!

I am a public school teacher and I will tell you that it is a disgrace- the system is broken and it has NOTHING to do with needing more money.
Also, in many states, education is in the Consitution- as in my state, health care is not

 

[white cali hubby]

I just wanted to say that reguardless of how you feel about war, the military, president Bush, John McCain, or anything else, you can not let the color of a mans skin decide how you will vote. We need someone who is experienced and not afraid of who he is. Of coarse there are raceist out there. It works both ways. Obama is a guy that down plays who he is as a person and denies who he really is. We all come to a forum that is about interracial sex and breeding. Why be affraid to be who you are if you are half black and half white. I have believed for a while that if my wife were to have a mixed black/white baby, I would raise the baby as my own. The child would be proud of who he or she is, a mixed baby. I just don't get why Obama is the way he is in denying who he is. Thanks for listening to my rant. Everyone take care. Have fun.

 

[RoSquirts]

It may be possible that you lack the ability to read and comprehend??? I did not say all democrats voted against the civil rights legislation. My comments were in response to the individual who basically stated that republicans were adamently opposed to the advancement of blacks which is sensationalized BS. The people I mentioned were stiff in their opposition as were others. The reason to mention those is because of their close connection to modern leaders who seem to want to pretend their families or friends were champions when in fact they weren't. I'd mention Jesse Helms or some other republican but neither their families or students are running around claiming to be champions of black Americans and therefore he can be left in the past.

As an aside, Kennedy was a racist like his father. Have you have heard the tapes of him using the n word?
Generally speaking I think JFK was a decent president and he certainly had the right idea on tax cuts and national defense but let's not pretend he was something that he wasn't.

Whether Kennedy was a racist or not is not the issue. All I said was he introduced the Civil Rights Bill of 1964. What he may have felt inwardly (assuming he was a racist)might have been the reason he introduced it in the first place, recognizing the 'devil' in his own prejudices. The fact is, he still introduced it and that was the right thing to do.

Now you're claiming to have knowledge of Helms' ancestors and students and whether or not their champions of racial equality? You seem to have a vast knowledge of what people secretly feel, what someone that lived 150 years ago would think about the world today, the temerity to pass judgement on people for the sins of their fathers and former teachers and the gall to challenge my reading comprehension after you stated 'Do not forget that while many democrats were fighting the civil rights legislation of the 50s and 60s, it was the republicans that helped pass the bills to get them to the president's desk. Remember the opposition included Al Gores father and Bill Clintons political mentor.' and I responded with it being a bipartisan effort. No, you did not say that all Democrats were against it, just omitted the fact that Congress was controlled by the Democrats and that most Democrats were for it, as were most Republicans. I really love when people pretend their words don't mean what they say, whether it be by omission or inclusion.

You seem to be taking this to a personal level so I'm dropping out of any further discussion with you regarding these things. I really prefer debates and discussion where I can actually learn something from the other side, not where it sinks into the morass of moralistic assumptions, insults and personal attacks.

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

Not to defend VtJames but if the politicians running for the presidency resort to such idiocy i can't see how any of us could not. but i do agree we needn't take anything said here too personally. it should be sorta fun, actually.

You seem to be taking this to a personal level so I'm dropping out of any further discussion with you regarding these things. I really prefer debates and discussion where I can actually learn something from the other side, not where it sinks into the morass of moralistic assumptions, insults and personal attacks.

 

[vtjames742]

Whether Kennedy was a racist or not is not the issue. All I said was he introduced the Civil Rights Bill of 1964. What he may have felt inwardly (assuming he was a racist)might have been the reason he introduced it in the first place, recognizing the 'devil' in his own prejudices. The fact is, he still introduced it and that was the right thing to do.

Now you're claiming to have knowledge of Helms' ancestors and students and whether or not their champions of racial equality? You seem to have a vast knowledge of what people secretly feel, what someone that lived 150 years ago would think about the world today, the temerity to pass judgement on people for the sins of their fathers and former teachers and the gall to challenge my reading comprehension after you stated 'Do not forget that while many democrats were fighting the civil rights legislation of the 50s and 60s, it was the republicans that helped pass the bills to get them to the president's desk. Remember the opposition included Al Gores father and Bill Clintons political mentor.' and I responded with it being a bipartisan effort. No, you did not say that all Democrats were against it, just omitted the fact that Congress was controlled by the Democrats and that most Democrats were for it, as were most Republicans. I really love when people pretend their words don't mean what they say, whether it be by omission or inclusion.

You seem to be taking this to a personal level so I'm dropping out of any further discussion with you regarding these things. I really prefer debates and discussion where I can actually learn something from the other side, not where it sinks into the morass of moralistic assumptions, insults and personal attacks.

You are the one that made the attack my friend and you still refuse to understand the point. When Trent Lott praised Strom Thrumond at is 100th B-day he was skewered even though every person alive that isnt a partisan hack knows he didnt in any way mean that Stom's past segregationist views were a good thing. As with an earlier post on here, the media and the democrats went on a rampage about how republicans were racists. They know full well it isnt the case but it isnt about the truth, its about scaring people.
As for Helms I said nothing of his ancestors. What I said is that neither his child nor student was on the national stage claiming that he was a champion of minorities as is that case with Gore and Clinton- neither has ever even said, "... was wrong on this issue and I condemn that view but..."
Every person in this room is probably aware that the democrat controlled congress in 1964 being that they controlled congress for most of the later half of the 20th century so why would I harp on that? Also, no one made a ridiculous claim about the democrats being racist who work to keep minorities down- that false allegation was made toward republican. The purpose of my post was to correct that ridiculous allegation and the talking point that the parties have switched positions which is factually untrue.
As for reading, stating that many were opposed is NOT the same as saying a majority or all were opposed and I am sorry you feel that it does imply that. The bills would NOT have passed if republicans were the people that an earlier post claimed they were- you know evil and out to get blacks.
Hopefully you will read this calmly and rationally rather than with a chip on your shoulder because your previous response clearly shows that you are NOT reading what I am actually writing.
If you want to know my credentials, I have three college degrees in three seperate concentrations (one of which is history)and am a licensed teacher with endorsements in two content areas. I have served in political offices-elected and appointed for many years- before that I wore the military uniform for 15 yrs. I've been around the block and I certainly have studied up a storm. If you allow yourself to read what I actually wrote rather than reading a few words, getting mad and confusing what I said with what you need me to have said to warrant your anger, you might actually gain understanding of a different point of view.
The entire point has been that republicans are not what many leftist activists claim them to be. Republicans are not racist and they certainly do not wish to hold anyone down. Left wing talking points may make such allegations, which is symbolic of the level of discourse in our nation, but that doesn't make it true. The second and lesser point is that democrats are allowed to get away with idolizing men who opposed civil rights while republicans are skewered if they say something nice to a man that once held silly views on segregation. Hopefully you will work to understand that these are the only points being made.

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

It isn't as simple as just saying "republicans aren't racist". The Republican party philosophy, if it could be condensed somehow, and summarized, i'm sure in and of itself it isn't inherently racist. however it is more likely to provide a safe haven for those who are, speaking in terms of course of society in the time we live in. In the future who knows as unlikely as it might seem to us maybe racism, sexism, antisemitism, and homophobia might nearly disappear and when that day comes no one with a clear conscience can accuse any party of indirectly safeguarding bigotry. again this is somewhat simplified but the message gets across whether anyone likes it or not.

You are the one that made the attack my friend and you still refuse to understand the point. When Trent Lott praised Strom Thrumond at is 100th B-day he was skewered even though every person alive that isnt a partisan hack knows he didnt in any way mean that Stom's past segregationist views were a good thing. As with an earlier post on here, the media and the democrats went on a rampage about how republicans were racists. They know full well it isnt the case but it isnt about the truth, its about scaring people.
As for Helms I said nothing of his ancestors. What I said is that neither his child nor student was on the national stage claiming that he was a champion of minorities as is that case with Gore and Clinton- neither has ever even said, "... was wrong on this issue and I condemn that view but..."
Every person in this room is probably aware that the democrat controlled congress in 1964 being that they controlled congress for most of the later half of the 20th century so why would I harp on that? Also, no one made a ridiculous claim about the democrats being racist who work to keep minorities down- that false allegation was made toward republican. The purpose of my post was to correct that ridiculous allegation and the talking point that the parties have switched positions which is factually untrue.
As for reading, stating that many were opposed is NOT the same as saying a majority or all were opposed and I am sorry you feel that it does imply that. The bills would NOT have passed if republicans were the people that an earlier post claimed they were- you know evil and out to get blacks.
Hopefully you will read this calmly and rationally rather than with a chip on your shoulder because your previous response clearly shows that you are NOT reading what I am actually writing.
If you want to know my credentials, I have three college degrees in three seperate concentrations (one of which is history)and am a licensed teacher with endorsements in two content areas. I have served in political offices-elected and appointed for many years- before that I wore the military uniform for 15 yrs. I've been around the block and I certainly have studied up a storm. If you allow yourself to read what I actually wrote rather than reading a few words, getting mad and confusing what I said with what you need me to have said to warrant your anger, you might actually gain understanding of a different point of view.
The entire point has been that republicans are not what many leftist activists claim them to be. Republicans are not racist and they certainly do not wish to hold anyone down. Left wing talking points may make such allegations, which is symbolic of the level of discourse in our nation, but that doesn't make it true. The second and lesser point is that democrats are allowed to get away with idolizing men who opposed civil rights while republicans are skewered if they say something nice to a man that once held silly views on segregation. Hopefully you will work to understand that these are the only points being made.

 

[RoSquirts]

Frankly, regardless of her speech I don't see her holding up well to the national spotlight, the media barrage or the debate with Biden. Now that the few days of honeymoon are coming to a close(and that wasn't much of a honeymoon thanks to the daughter thing), her anti-abortion, pro-abstinence, anti-sex education, pro- 'intelligent design' stances are coming to light her chances to help McCain are dwindling. Couple this with her engaging lobbyists for a town of 6700 people while claiming to be a reformer and she's cannon fodder.

Sure the evangelicals and Repub party hard core will love her, but women are not going to change their votes for her and frankly I think the net result will be that women that would have voted for McCain cuz they're pissed about Hillary are getting scared right into Obama's camp. Hell, I've been going back and forth myself on Obama and McCain for months and this has just about convinced me to , ugh, vote for Obama. The choice of Palin by McCain and the strategy of thinking women will just vote for any woman is an insult to all of us and sure to backfire.

In my opinion of course Which is probably worth as much as any of those talking heads on the tube,lol.

 

[vtjames742]

Frankly, regardless of her speech I don't see her holding up well to the national spotlight, the media barrage or the debate with Biden. Now that the few days of honeymoon are coming to a close(and that wasn't much of a honeymoon thanks to the daughter thing), her anti-abortion, pro-abstinence, anti-sex education, pro- 'intelligent design' stances are coming to light her chances to help McCain are dwindling. Couple this with her engaging lobbyists for a town of 6700 people while claiming to be a reformer and she's cannon fodder.

Sure the evangelicals and Repub party hard core will love her, but women are not going to change their votes for her and frankly I think the net result will be that women that would have voted for McCain cuz they're pissed about Hillary are getting scared right into Obama's camp. Hell, I've been going back and forth myself on Obama and McCain for months and this has just about convinced me to , ugh, vote for Obama. The choice of Palin by McCain and the strategy of thinking women will just vote for any woman is an insult to all of us and sure to backfire.

In my opinion of course Which is probably worth as much as any of those talking heads on the tube,lol.

Political speeches usually turn me off. I started listening to Palin because I wanted to see who she was. At first I kept watching because, quite honestly, she isnt hard to look at. However, as the speech went on, she impressed me more and more. She did what she was supposed to do in a convention speech. For the record, she and Rudy both mentioned issues and anyone that supports Obama has little room to criticize anyone about a lack of specifics or substance in a speech- the man is the master of saying nothing. I would be willing to bet that she will also make Biden look like the die-hard partisan hack that he is when they debate next month.

PS: Did you all see her non-pregnant daughter? That is a pretty little lady.

 

[vtjames742]

It isn't as simple as just saying "republicans aren't racist". The Republican party philosophy, if it could be condensed somehow, and summarized, i'm sure in and of itself it isn't inherently racist. however it is more likely to provide a safe haven for those who are, speaking in terms of course of society in the time we live in. In the future who knows as unlikely as it might seem to us maybe racism, sexism, antisemitism, and homophobia might nearly disappear and when that day comes no one with a clear conscience can accuse any party of indirectly safeguarding bigotry. again this is somewhat simplified but the message gets across whether anyone likes it or not.

This is an opinion fostered by a total misrepresentation of republicans by the left and their friends in the media. There is no truth to the republican party being a safe haven for racists. Many of the most racist, sexist and otherwise intolerant people I have ever met are members of the modern democrat party. Having said that, we are all individuals but remember, when people like David Duke try to claim the republican label, republicans everywhere tell them to take a hike. We dont support rapists, sexual harrassers, pedophiles, murders and so forth unlike the opposition. We throw the trash out not circle the wagons in defense of the indefensible.

 

[dom-lesbian]

Obama is a smooth talker for sure. A few things I found to my disliking is at the party conv. He had the blk people hid in the back an mostly all wht in front of the stage. I feel like he's taking our blk vote for granted. I also haft to say he wants alot of gov. and taxes and as one knows if taxes are rasied to buss. owners the people who buy from them will haft to pay a higher price for there goods an needs. Both parites have never said what the bottom line is going to be in how there going to get things going. I know more will come from there debates can't want to hear what will be said

 

[zibzob]

This will be the first year I watch the Vice presidential debates. I find this woman fascinating. Maybe I'm crazy but I like the idea of a real reformer, someone who is unafraid to piss people in their party off in order to do the right thing for the American people, that's my kind of politician. Someone who'd sell a Jet on Ebay because they don't need it, I like that. someone who'd give additional revenue fron gas back to the population, that's good to. I have lifelong democrats in my family who are voting for McCain Palin this year. There's no way alot of Hillarys supporters are going to vote for this woman, but I think she'll capture the attention of ALOT of independant women and men.