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Psychology of a Cuckold

  • Thread starterDoc in Cleveland
  • Start date

Doc in Cleveland

Not quite a lurker
Beloved Member
Apr 5, 2011
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..

In the last five years of my practice I've seen an incredible, almost fantastic, rise in this form of sexual practice. It's come to the point where I can tell most people here that you are pretty much "normal" these days, no matter what anyone is willing to admit to in a survey or a census. I came here out of my desire to educate myself further on just how rampant this is and the variations it takes. I've been reading for a few days on these forums and, coupling my findings here with what I hear behind the door of confidentiality without betraying trust, I've formed a few opinions that may help some folks. At least I hope it will help some folks. I suspect it will inflame some.

A couple things .. labels and history. I see a lot of comments along the lines of "Why label it? Just enjoy". I agree. But, in what I do, we need to figure out what it is before we can address it. Otherwise, we're just stumbling and poking at random things. That's where labels I will use come in. If it upsets some to label a certain way, I'm sorry about that. But that is the reason why I will label things. The second is history, i.e. "This has been going on for thousands of years". No, no it really hasn't. Wives have been incredibly unfaithful for thousands of years. True cuckolding is fairly new to the current time period. I can relate it to the sixties and seventies and the "swinging" lifestyle that was very prevalent in society and that relationship to Roman orgies. Of course cuckolding happened in the past. The type of cuckolding described here and I see so often in real life (well, the real life where secrets are told) is a very specific and intense type. Many of the accounts here are not true cuckolding and here we enter "labels" and reasons why this is an epic phenomenon of our times.

Therapists all agree that there are three basic reasons why this is occurring. I have concluded some of my own personal observations that I will add. First and foremost is the masochist. As a masochist craves pain, a true cuckold experiences the most intense pain that can be conjured. As an added bonus, there's not much chance you will die. In the masochist world, this is as safe a pain as people can explore and is a reason people flock to it. Second is the voyeur. A voyeur is not a true cuckold and when you separate these you can start to separate the men from the .. uh .. voyeurs, I suppose. There's nothing wrong with being a voyeur. It's just that you crave a sex show and not the true feelings of a cuckold. A classic clinical test of this is kissing and some petting. If you sit and watch your faithful wife of many years engaging in a loving, caring make-out session with her boyfriend and you, subsequently, feel very intense emotions, emotions that you crave, then you lean towards the side of cuckolding. If you want to see his cock slamming her in the ass and you could care less about anything else, you're probably more of a voyeur. (I apologize for the flagrant language. But it tends to cut through the bullshit and get to the point of what you are trying to say) And I find anal sex is fairly uncommon in the cuckolding circumstance. It's mostly about making love inside of your wife's vagina. There's some form of trigger there for the cuckold. This may help you separate things from voyeur to cuckold as well. And third .. well, third is a touchy subject with males: Latent homosexuality. Every male has it, guys. It's the way we were built. The longer you completely deny it the more anxiety and confusion you will experience. Now, because you prepare your wife's lover with man-on-man oral sex, this is not a homosexual act. This is a sexual act. I am rather surprised at the ratio of men here that profess being a cuckold but condemn or do not express anal sex with another man in the presence and guidance of their wives. In the confidentiality of my office, men of every size and type tell of this in a matter-of-fact way and move on. This is not a big stumbling block for them. Here, it does seem to be that way. I found that enlightening. Again, in the presence and at the direction of your wife or girlfriend, this is not a homosexual act. Simply a sexual act. An act borne mostly of humiliation but also a physical representation of submission. I have seen that when cuckolds surrender to this, their happiness level is raised exponentially. Of course, every cuckold is different. But the thing about that statement is this: Every WIFE of a cuckold is different is a more accurate term. A true cuckold is in complete submission and humiliation and should his wife direct it, then that is that. His satisfaction with the session flows through her capability and expertise at cuckolding her husband. Her skills determine the cuckold's level of satisfaction with the circumstance.

There is more to be said on this ... early trauma, mothers and my own take which includes abandonment issues and the rise of power of women in this society. However, this being a free public forum I have no idea on how any of this is going to be received. If I'm going to take the time to write all this out and even further time to possibly help some people, I have to determine if anybody here really cares about what I am saying or not. Maybe I'm in the wrong place. We'll see.

Finally, determining who are the cuckolds in the world. It's really eye opening, especially so when reading the literature of findings in other countries instead of conveying what I see and hear. Straight away and above all: Cuckolds are intelligent .. without exception. You generally are not going to find Billy Bob with a third nipple living this lifestyle. Usually, dumb men (and I generalize here for the point of brevity) .. dumb men want to fight or kill someone having sex with their wife. Oddly for most, but extremely revealing, most true cuckolds are white or of Indian descent. According to findings, the amount of cuckold lifestyle members in the U.K. dwarfs the ratio here in America. And this is extended to India. Perhaps by their many years of infrastructure as a British colony. It's a juicy sampling and widely discussed by sociologist academics. Furthermore, another revealing, and telling, detail I see is the amount of true cuckolds that are white. I, personally, have treated no black or Hispanic men that are confused by this desire. However, this is only what I have seen personally. There are no real studies that break this down in to race. Yet. It will be coming, I am sure.

Lastly, if I could further inject my OPINION here .. not scientific data, just opinion .. people don't speak publicly about this. Nobody sits down in the cart and says to their golfing buddy "You know, Jim, I was eating my wife's boyfriend's cum out of her pussy the other day ..". This is just not spoken out loud in our society. Of all the people you see posting here, there are 15 times that many that simply read and are trying to understand why they have these cravings. I can add this as a member of this community now .. it is very important that the active leaders of this community that I see call out "bullshit". Some of it is flagrant here and many get caught and you don't hear from them again. The reason I say, and request that the leaders of this community continue to do that with vigilance, is that there is so little clinical information. I cannot foresee how this lifestyle could continue to be in the dark and unspoken worlds of society with the massive explosion I have seen in practice. But the data tells me that a lot of cuckolds are getting their information from places like this. When you catch somebody blatantly lying and exaggerating, try to call them out. To express true experiences and desires as a means of communicating helps others understand themselves. When it is bald faced and blatantly fictitious, it really could damage some people that stay quiet. You're providing the community, and the larger unheard community, with a great service. In my opinion. Nothing more.

OK .. that will get us started. Now, let's see if anybody is interested in the view from my chair and how people react in this community to this post.

Doc

..
 
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Very interesting. I have often pondered on how it works in my head from a psychological standpoint. Welcome to the forum.

I, for one; think your viewpoints will be a great addition to the site. I wouldn't be surprised to see some naysayers who don't want to accept your views, but dont let them discourage you.

I personally don't think I am a cuckold, or a voyuer. Or perhaps I am both. I like to watch, I like to listen. I like to see them makeout. There are times when I'm not even around. Ours is different than most in the fact that I do most of the choosing, with her input of course; but most of it is left up to me. Also, there is no humiliation with us. No domination.
Feel free to read my story and analyze if u like, u will get no flaming from me. Even if I don't like what a person has to say, I respect others opinions.
 
Is that you in the pic Mac? Ur looking purty hot there. Lol
 
Hehe, Mac. Yours is one of the first galleries that I perused. Pretty extreme stuff there. I've never, personally, come across an actual account of some of the things portrayed there. I'm not saying they do no exist. I can only convey what I have dealt with.

Dirty .. I'd like to explore why you feel that you should select her lovers and that she has no input. Do you find your emotions being more intense when she is not seen or heard? How would you contrast your intensity of emotions when you are present, maybe even active in the session, vs. just listening or knowing that she is going on a date?

Finally, Mac .. the reason I brought up the "bullshit" is .. without fail .. every cuckold that has come to me is quite sure they are gay. This is why they are seeking treatment and are very confused. They are no more gay than the average white American male with 2.4 kids. This is a valid lifestyle and these are actual feelings they are experiencing. There is no need for confusion but a settling on contentment that this is the way you are and there is nothing to be ashamed of. I help them with "Why?", which seems to be a crushing feeling for most cuckolds. They feel something is desperately wrong with them. I help ease them in to the role of the cuckold in their life and to accept and enjoy it. And I can report a cuckold that accepts his role is far, far more satisfied with their existence than a strapping heterosexual male and all that society heaps upon what they are supposed to be. And, to be honest, and I'm showing my human and opinionated side here, I have found that there is no hotter sex for a homosexual than to bound over to the side of heterosexual and capture a moment with them. I do not understand why this is, in all my years. I have just observed this. And these types of sexual expressions leave a very open door to the homosexual to exploit. They are further exploited because of the Internet. I am hoping to help the cuckold understand that this does not necessarily mean they are gay.

And from what I have observed over the last five years .. it pretty much means they are a normal white male, honestly. This thing is far, far bigger than people realize.

Doc
 
Dirty489 said:
Is that you in the pic Mac? Ur looking purty hot there. Lol

===========

he wishes he looked that alluring ...and btw his pecker is waaay
biggerer than the one depicted in the pix :p
 
well, the decision that i was to find the guys was both of ours. she is shy, and isn't comfortable approaching guys about the subject. She prefers me to do the "legwork" all she wants is to get laid. she does have the final say in whether she will sleep with them or not, and she offers a good deal of input; she is just uncomfortable talking to strangers. especially talking to them about this type of thing. on top of that, she doesnt want anyone to know. we have a lot of friends and family in our small town, if it were to get out, it would really mess with her head. she has always been the type to sleep around, but she tries to keep that behind closed doors.

also, for her and her lovers, there is very little emotion involved (i would be lying to myself if i said there was absolutely no emotion). all she really wants from them is their body. she tends to refer to them as "living sex toys" rather than "boyfriends". there are no "dates" in the normal use of the word. they never go out to eat, or to movies, or drinking, etc... it is just sex. after the sex, either they leave or she comes home. there is foreplay and kissing and all that, but no real relationship. when one drops out of the race, she isnt upset; she just asks me to find a replacement.
at first, she had absolutely no input. she didn't even know who it was until after it was over. she was blindfolded and the like. the reason for this was my emotions. we both knew we wanted for this to happen, but we were both worried about how it would affect our relationship. we, therefore; came to the agreement that the first time, she would know nothing except that she was getting it from another man. this made me more comfortable because it helped me understand that it really was just sex for her, she didnt care where it came from. also it let me choose someone i trusted not to talk about it, or to try to pull her away from me. third, she didnt know who it was, so she wouldnt talk about it with them without me around. so, originaly it was a security thing. we have since moved past that point. we do have a multitude of rules to help me stay comfortable with it, but they can be summed up in one statement "dont lie to me, not telling is the same as lying". mostly, she would have to check with me before going off with someone if she were so inclined (though she isnt really), but there are certain scenarios that we have discussed where she could just tell me afterwards as asking me beforehand wouldnt be feasible. i would say that we are closer to swingers than cuckolders, except that i have little to no interest in another woman.

now to your real question. intensity of emotion.
this is difficult to answer. i think that it is best for me when she leaves me here and goes out. i do enjoy watching, more than listening, and more than her leaving i think, but even when it is here i dont watch very often because i dont want her, or him to be uncomfortable. she has gotten comfortable about me watching, but our regular guy at the moment is not comfortable with it. he is very homophobic. so mostly i just peek in on occasion. and i like listening alot also, but only when it is quite loud. as far as being involved, that doesnt generally work out very well. i normaly cant get it up when she is with someone else and im suposed to be involved, however; when im not suposed to be involved, im normally rock hard. go figure right?

so, in summary. i honestly think her leaving me here to do it is hottest. something subconscious about her "making me stay home while i know shes going to get fucked" really does something for me. but when i feel comfortable watching (or feel that they are comfortable with it) that is a very high point for me as well. i thoroughly enjoy listening to her when she is in ecstasy, especially if i can hear her across the street. as far as me being involved, it has to be a very special circumstance (dp), and i have to take viagra to make my junk work, which is abnormal for me when its just the two of us.

on a side note, my biggest reward from all of this is the video i collect of her adventures. i cant even watch a normal porno without placing her in it in my minds eye.
 
Doc in Cleveland said:
..

In the last five years of my practice I've seen an incredible, almost fantastic, rise in this form of sexual practice. It's come to the point where I can tell most people here that you are pretty much "normal" these days, no matter what anyone is willing to admit to in a survey or a census. I came here out of my desire to educate myself further on just how rampant this is and the variations it takes. I've been reading for a few days on these forums and, coupling my findings here with what I hear behind the door of confidentiality without betraying trust, I've formed a few opinions that may help some folks. At least I hope it will help some folks. I suspect it will inflame some.

A couple things .. labels and history. I see a lot of comments along the lines of "Why label it? Just enjoy". I agree. But, in what I do, we need to figure out what it is before we can address it. Otherwise, we're just stumbling and poking at random things. That's where labels I will use come in. If it upsets some to label a certain way, I'm sorry about that. But that is the reason why I will label things. The second is history, i.e. "This has been going on for thousands of years". No, no it really hasn't. Wives have been incredibly unfaithful for thousands of years. True cuckolding is fairly new to the current time period. I can relate it to the sixties and seventies and the "swinging" lifestyle that was very prevalent in society and that relationship to Roman orgies. Of course cuckolding happened in the past. The type of cuckolding described here and I see so often in real life (well, the real life where secrets are told) is a very specific and intense type. Many of the accounts here are not true cuckolding and here we enter "labels" and reasons why this is an epic phenomenon of our times.

Therapists all agree that there are three basic reasons why this is occurring. I have concluded some of my own personal observations that I will add. First and foremost is the masochist. As a masochist craves pain, a true cuckold experiences the most intense pain that can be conjured. As an added bonus, there's not much chance you will die. In the masochist world, this is as safe a pain as people can explore and is a reason people flock to it. Second is the voyeur. A voyeur is not a true cuckold and when you separate these you can start to separate the men from the .. uh .. voyeurs, I suppose. There's nothing wrong with being a voyeur. It's just that you crave a sex show and not the true feelings of a cuckold. A classic clinical test of this is kissing and some petting. If you sit and watch your faithful wife of many years engaging in a loving, caring make-out session with her boyfriend and you, subsequently, feel very intense emotions, emotions that you crave, then you lean towards the side of cuckolding. If you want to see his cock slamming her in the ass and you could care less about anything else, you're probably more of a voyeur. (I apologize for the flagrant language. But it tends to cut through the bullshit and get to the point of what you are trying to say) And I find anal sex is fairly uncommon in the cuckolding circumstance. It's mostly about making love inside of your wife's vagina. There's some form of trigger there for the cuckold. This may help you separate things from voyeur to cuckold as well. And third .. well, third is a touchy subject with males: Latent homosexuality. Every male has it, guys. It's the way we were built. The longer you completely deny it the more anxiety and confusion you will experience. Now, because you prepare your wife's lover with man-on-man oral sex, this is not a homosexual act. This is a sexual act. I am rather surprised at the ratio of men here that profess being a cuckold but condemn or do not express anal sex with another man in the presence and guidance of their wives. In the confidentiality of my office, men of every size and type tell of this in a matter-of-fact way and move on. This is not a big stumbling block for them. Here, it does seem to be that way. I found that enlightening. Again, in the presence and at the direction of your wife or girlfriend, this is not a homosexual act. Simply a sexual act. An act borne mostly of humiliation but also a physical representation of submission. I have seen that when cuckolds surrender to this, their happiness level is raised exponentially. Of course, every cuckold is different. But the thing about that statement is this: Every WIFE of a cuckold is different is a more accurate term. A true cuckold is in complete submission and humiliation and should his wife direct it, then that is that. His satisfaction with the session flows through her capability and expertise at cuckolding her husband. Her skills determine the cuckold's level of satisfaction with the circumstance.

There is more to be said on this ... early trauma, mothers and my own take which includes abandonment issues and the rise of power of women in this society. However, this being a free public forum I have no idea on how any of this is going to be received. If I'm going to take the time to write all this out and even further time to possibly help some people, I have to determine if anybody here really cares about what I am saying or not. Maybe I'm in the wrong place. We'll see.

Finally, determining who are the cuckolds in the world. It's really eye opening, especially so when reading the literature of findings in other countries instead of conveying what I see and hear. Straight away and above all: Cuckolds are intelligent .. without exception. You generally are not going to find Billy Bob with a third nipple living this lifestyle. Usually, dumb men (and I generalize here for the point of brevity) .. dumb men want to fight or kill someone having sex with their wife. Oddly for most, but extremely revealing, most true cuckolds are white or of Indian descent. According to findings, the amount of cuckold lifestyle members in the U.K. dwarfs the ratio here in America. And this is extended to India. Perhaps by their many years of infrastructure as a British colony. It's a juicy sampling and widely discussed by sociologist academics. Furthermore, another revealing, and telling, detail I see is the amount of true cuckolds that are white. I, personally, have treated no black or Hispanic men that are confused by this desire. However, this is only what I have seen personally. There are no real studies that break this down in to race. Yet. It will be coming, I am sure.

Lastly, if I could further inject my OPINION here .. not scientific data, just opinion .. people don't speak publicly about this. Nobody sits down in the cart and says to their golfing buddy "You know, Jim, I was eating my wife's boyfriend's cum out of her pussy the other day ..". This is just not spoken out loud in our society. Of all the people you see posting here, there are 15 times that many that simply read and are trying to understand why they have these cravings. I can add this as a member of this community now .. it is very important that the active leaders of this community that I see call out "bullshit". Some of it is flagrant here and many get caught and you don't hear from them again. The reason I say, and request that the leaders of this community continue to do that with vigilance, is that there is so little clinical information. I cannot foresee how this lifestyle could continue to be in the dark and unspoken worlds of society with the massive explosion I have seen in practice. But the data tells me that a lot of cuckolds are getting their information from places like this. When you catch somebody blatantly lying and exaggerating, try to call them out. To express true experiences and desires as a means of communicating helps others understand themselves. When it is bald faced and blatantly fictitious, it really could damage some people that stay quiet. You're providing the community, and the larger unheard community, with a great service. In my opinion. Nothing more.

OK .. that will get us started. Now, let's see if anybody is interested in the view from my chair and how people react in this community to this post.

Doc

..

===========
 

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Doc in Cleveland,

Thanks for initiating this thread. Having just joined this forum, you're already making a valuable contribution. Welcome!

What are your thoughts on the hypothesis (if it has that level of respectability) that cuckolding of their male partners by women has played a valuable role in human evolution, because... throughout most of the ~200 thousand year time period our species (homo sapiens, people who look like us) has been evolving... and throughout almost the entire ~6 million year time period our hominid predecessors evolved... male lifespans were significantly shorter than female lifespans, on average, and males tended to die young, perhaps after something like ~30 years, typically. This was because throughout these evolutionary-scale time periods, males were hunters while females were gatherers as well as the bearers and nurturers of children. There was thus a high probability of any given male being killed or seriously injured while hunting animals that were often large and dangerous, or in territorial conflicts with other tribes or small groups of humans. (Being seriously injured led to death, of course, since modern medical care was non-existent.)

Thus, for a woman to depend on a single male partner to provide for and protect her and her children was risky because of the high probability of him being killed during their "child bearing and raising years," so to speak. But, if a woman took lovers in addition to her partner, then each of her lovers... including her partner... would have grounds for suspecting at least one of her children had been sired by him. So, if her partner met an early death, as was often the case, there was a strong probability one of her lovers would become her new partner and take on the role of providing for and protecting her and her children. This would be likely to happen because of the emotional bonds of their sexual relationship, and also because if a man suspects or knows he has sired at least one of a woman's children, he is more likely to feel responsible for them than he would otherwise.

Ergo, "cuckolding" (as we now call it) helped to ensure the survival and success of our species, throughout the often-harsh hundreds of thousands of years when it wasn't always obvious we would make it, via successful propagation of our genes combined with protection of women and children. In addition, this practice helped ensure that the genes propagated were the genes of the males who were fittest in a reproductive sense. See (for instance):

Baker, Robin, Ph.D., 1996, Sperm Wars: The Science of Sex (319 pp [hardcover]).

If this hypothesis is true, that implies "cuckolding" is wired, so to speak, into our DNA as one of the mechanisms that has helped us succeed as a species, just as it is "wired" (as we now know) into the DNA of all other pair-bond species throughout the biosphere, including those that have traditionally been thought of as monogamous such as swans.

By contrast, the strong social conventions that strongly disapprove of "cuckolding" as a marital practice and insist that couples be mutually-faithful appear mostly rooted in organized religions, which obviously continue to play a strong role as they fight to perpetuate these conventions. But, organized religions... as you appreciate, I'm sure... are a very recent phenomenon in the evolution of our species, having developed only during the past several thousand years... if, that is, one takes as the beginnings of organized religion the time period during which the first 5 books of the Bible, also known as the 5 Books of Moses... in Jewish tradition, the "Torah"... were written. These books are thought to have been "transmitted orally for centuries before being set down on scrolls beginning sometime after 1000 BCE .... The writing process was not completed until about 400 BCE." (See pp. 13-17, "Who wrote the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament?" in:

Davis, Kenneth C., 1998, Don't Know Much About the Bible: Everything you need to know about the good book but never learned (533 pp., softcover).)

If this hypothesis is true, that also suggests that religious-based attempts to stamp out cuckolding and encourage or even enforce monogamy are probably in the category of "trying to sweep back the tide with a broom."

As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I'd be interested in reading your thoughts on this.

Thanks—

Custer
 
Custer .. incredibly impressive. One of the most thoughtful posts I have ever read on the Internet. Wow. Again, all of these thoughtful responses, well written and well worded, proves one of my points about the modern cuckold being educated. Cuckolding is advanced sexuality and relationships. It is most certainly not for everyone. As to your point, Custer, I am not qualified to respond in a clinical sense. What you are discussing is more sociological and historical, specifically, religious historical. I would be required to give my opinion and when an analysts does that he loses objectivity and the capability to diagnose and assist on the highest level. I do believe you make some valid points but that is my opinion. I also think you are slightly misdirected in some points, again, opinion. What I am experienced and educated in is dealing with the psychological repercussions of this lifestyle, what it means to those experiencing it and helping them find a peaceful and loving place inside of their id and ego. And speaking of which ..

Mac .. a very striking point on depression. I have run in to this several times. If asked, I will tell specifics of cases I have treated with some rather shocking details of real life ramifications. Depression is a cuckold, well .. a true heterosexual cuckold's .. worst enemy. Cuckolding savagely attacks the ego. But, in that same vein, it is, therefore, the most satisfying to those that are so inclined to embrace it. A cuckold who truly embraces who he is finds himself in a place where he knows he longs to be. This is deeply, deeply satisfying because most actual cuckolds desire to have the physical actions played out in a sexual scenario. Almost every cuckold I have dealt with has very common specifics to sexual acts. I have concluded this is the physical manifestation of where they reside in reality. To act it out physically is completely gratifying to them and I would venture to say that their joy upon submission surpasses that of the physical joy that the "bull" experiences. ( I have no clinical data of this. This is only an hypothesis ) Furthermore, I can say confidently that a cuckold with a thoughtful, loving wife that cares for his needs in this capacity is more sexually satisfied than the typical heterosexual male in a vanilla monogamous relationship. It's my opinion that this is one of the secondary reasons why this is becoming so very popular.

Dirty .. I asked you those questions so that you could better discover the way you feel and further your satisfaction in the lifestyle. Analyze your answers and see if they please you.

Doc

OH .. Mac .. I did see one intense circumstance that was represented in your gallery. The very first cuckold I saw I did couples counseling after a period of six months with just the male. They were veering in to the area of hormones and castration. The male reported an intense desire to continue down this road and the female .. well, she was a little confusing .. but my focus was on helping the male achieve happiness as he was my original client. After a period of months, the male was beginning to see the bull of the relationship away from his wife. In fact, he claimed a bonding and love for the bull and this is why he had such an intense desire to submit to the extreme cuckolding actions. At that point, after some intensely graphic situations that were played out over a six week period of time between the three of them, I referred my original client to The Cleveland Clinic to pursue proper hormone and sex change therapy and all subsequent medical procedures. The last time I saw this individual he and the bull were living together and divorce proceedings were underway with his wife. He showed me some very disturbing physical ramifications of being in love with this man. However, he claimed to beg for them. Sometimes human sexuality stuns even me so you may be more accurate with that gallery than anyone knows. Just nobody really talks about it much. -Doc
..
 
Its nice to see a thoughtful post on the topic. Thanks for posting Doc.

>According to findings, the amount of cuckold lifestyle members in the U.K. dwarfs the ratio here in America.

I'd like to see a link to these findings. I'm a Professor of Sociology, so if you have the reference I'd be very interested to read the article/s.

My own analysis is the majority of cuckold fetishists are rooted in a disturbance of socially-received and stereotypical gender roles - the male as alpha, etc. The central fantasy-image is their woman being 'stolen' - overpowered sexually, psychologically, etc, in ways that reference both male and female gender stereotypes that are rather outdated. The partner becomes a slut, instead of a prim madonna, the fetishist fails to 'be a real man.' Firstly this isn't the same as latent homosexuality, as you say. Secondly, these stereotypical roles, and their play with conventional values, are one reason I think maybe women can find the whole fetish a bit offputting at first. Hence all the 'how do I convince her?' posts...

All this, sociologically, might go some way to explaining why white, middle and upper-class educated men are more prone to this, as their traditional gender role has been more disturbed by social changes since the 1960s than those of less affluent groups.

And I'd agree that this is in the main a mode of masochism, although one that sometimes comes psychologically under the remit of what BDSMers call 'edgeplay'. It generally doesn't get considered as such, but - aside from all the whips and furs stuff - Masoch's 'Venus in Furs' (from which the term masochism is derived) would be good reading for anyone on here - it does contain all the key tropes of a cukcold fantasy as its basic narrative - Severin, the hero, is ridiculed by his lover, who then ignores him, apart from to tease him and put him in ridiculous situations, preferring an Adonis-like character only described as 'The Greek,' who she eventually leaves him for.

But, like I say, I'd be really interested to see some citations of the studies you mention, as otherwise I'm gonig to have to remain skeptical of your reading, some of which makes some big claims I'm not sure about. Exact titles and authors is fine, I can find them from that.
 
Good to see some intelligent discussion on here again!

I am enjoying these insights so far...and especially the bits that don't get discussed about ie: depression from living this lifestyle, which i have also had to go through, which was very hard.
But am in total agreement that the depression state, well for me anyway....isnt being a cuckold, its the reasoning of why i am the way i am. Actually living it, cuts with one side and heals with the other...if that makes sense? To a masochist like myself it does anyway! :)

I look forward to more opinions on this post!

Slinky
 
I find it possible also that the matter of genetic diversity is very important. I don't know if this was mentioned but I think that biology has stated the theory that more the more diverse a gene pool is, the more likely they are to survive viruses and disease.
 
Doc in Cleveland,

Doc in Cleveland said:
Custer .. incredibly impressive. One of the most thoughtful posts I have ever read on the Internet. Wow. ....

Thanks...

Doc in Cleveland said:
.... Again, all of these thoughtful responses, well written and well worded, proves one of my points about the modern cuckold being educated. ....

With all due respect, I suspect this may not be true in most cases. Rather, I suspect your observation is a result of educated (hence more affluent) cuckolds being more likely to have sufficient resources to be able to consult psychologists, such as yourself, about their personal problems. More on this in a moment (below).

Doc in Cleveland said:
.... As to your point, Custer, I am not qualified to respond in a clinical sense. What you are discussing is more sociological and historical; specifically, religious historical. .... I do believe you make some valid points, but that is my opinion. I also think you are slightly misdirected in some points; again, [that is my] opinion.

I am neither an anthropologist nor a religious historian; that's why I phrased my post as a question. Although you aren't either, as you point out, I thought you might have some additional insight into this background. (BTW, a correction: I should have said "organized patriarchal religions" in my previous post rather than "organized religions.")

Doc in Cleveland said:
What I am experienced and educated in is dealing with the psychological repercussions of this lifestyle, what it means to those experiencing it and helping them find a peaceful and loving place inside of their id and ego. ....

Yes... your post was definitely valuable from that point of view. My impression, incidentally, is that it seems to be becoming more socially acceptable for qualified professionals such as yourself to publish books on this subject, for example:

Ley, David J., 2009, Insatiable Wives: Women who stray and the men who love them (Rowman & Littlefield, 291 pp. [hardcover]).

Ley claims to be a clinical psychologist who practices in Albuquerque, New Mexico. (I don't mean to imply here that you should write a book. I mean, that would really be a lot of work...)

Based on one of Seanbroken's comments, I'll expand on: "With all due respect, I suspect this may not be true in most cases. Rather, I suspect your observation is a result of educated (hence more affluent) cuckolds being more likely to have sufficient resources to be able to consult psychologists, such as yourself, about their personal problems."

seanbroken said:
All this, sociologically, might go some way toward explaining why white, middle and upper-class educated men are more prone to this, as their traditional gender role has been more disturbed by social changes since the 1960s than those of less affluent groups.

Baker (1996, pp. 124-125, ref. in my previous post) states that "On average, about 10% of children are not sired by their supposed fathers. Some men, however, are more likely to be deceived in this way than others — and it is men of low wealth and status who fare worst. Actual figures range from 1 percent [of the children] in high-status areas of the U.S. and Switzerland, to 5 to 6 percent [of the children] of moderate-status couples in the U.S. and Great Britain, to 10 to 30 percent [of the children] of lower-status couples in the U.S. and Great Britain. Moreover, the men most likely to sexually hoodwink the lower-status males are men of higher status. Anthropological studies have shown precisely the same pattern. Men of higher wealth and status obtain partners earlier, start to reproduce earlier, are less likely to have their partners impregnated by other men, and are more likely to impregnate the partners of other men."

Baker, it should be noted, is talking about "real" cuckolding that results in a man impregnating the wife or wives of another man or men, such that his genes are propagated and his child or children (from cuckolding sex) raised at no cost to himself, as measured using the DNA of broad spectrums of children in different social classes. Baker does not not concern himself with "recreational" cuckolding, where a man and his wife conceive and raise their own children while the wife (perhaps by mutual consent, perhaps not) fucks other men for pleasure while preventing conception with some form of birth control.

Baker (1996, p. 124) (who is an evolutionary biologist; he also studies the reproductive behavior of species other than our own) points out, in addition, that with respect to cuckolding the reproductive behavior of humans mirrors that of a bird called the "blue tit." He says: "Those lucky females paired to genetically superior males with the best territories are totally faithful. Neighboring females, paired to genetically inferior males, take every opportunity to seek infidelity with the superior males. They sneak into the better males territories, solicit intercourse, then return unobserved to the partner they have just cheated on. On average, about a third of young birds in a nest have not been sired by their mother's partner. Actual levels range from 0 percent in the nests of the most favored males to about 80 percent in the nests of the least favored ones."

["Blue tit" birds were convenient to study... but there's good reason to think now that such cuckolding behavior is characteristic of other pair-bond species, as well.]

The statistics Baker quotes, if representative, show it is men of low socioeconomic status whose wives are most likely to cuckold them (with or without mutual consent) by fucking other men, who are usually of higher socioeconomic status, while the wives of men of higher socioeconomic status are somewhere between "less likely" and "much less likely" to cuckold them. Ergo, my suggestion: "I suspect your (Doc in Cleveland's) observation is a result of educated (hence more affluent) cuckolds being more likely to have sufficient resources to be able to consult psychologists, such as yourself, about their personal problems." Lower socioeconomic-class men are cuckolded by their wives more extensively, sometimes much more extensively, but they probably are not on your radar screen, so to speak.

—Custer
 
On David J. Ley, Ph.D.

I follow David J. Ley, Ph.D. on Psychologytoday.com (which i think is a great site) and he does have some very interesting views/ideas, and i have read his book and found it quite informative...didn't agree with all of it, but it did cover a lot of my thoughts and views which i did agree with.

I found this link quite interesting when it come out.
Kinky Cuckolding Fetish Goes Mainstream | Psychology Today

Thought this was interesting as well...my partner agreed with all of it almost 100%
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...e-new-relationship-do-you-have-king-or-knight
 
Very interesting. For most, cuckolding in the broad sense, at least in my opinion is not adversely fueled by the negative social stigma attached to a the act of watching your partner with another man. While this social value is realistically present and often times confusing for the male, it is not the force behind this fantasy. Rather, cuckolding it seems is a postmodern reaction that challenges the conflicting duality of the sexually empowered modern woman. Where a woman prior to marriage is encouraged by main stream society to embrace and explore her sexuality with out judgement from antiquated social values, only to be expected to repress and lock away these sexual urges of exploration once married. Which is exactly what happens. Once inside the union of marriage the sexual empowerment and freedom that was once welcome and accepted no longer is, thus becoming suppressed and seemingly taboo to the modern married women. Leaving the man to wonder where this once SEXUALLY adventurous cockwhore has GONE. This creates a very fertile and inviting field of exploration for the modern man. Which may explain the explosion of the contemporary "cuckold" phenomena.

My experience has been that men mostly want to experience their wives sexuality in its most basic and unrestricted form. Free of the marital mores that now restrict her once healthy sexual appetite. Watching her enjoy sex unencumbered, free from the guilt of what is expected of a proper Wife and Mother
 
While the Dr's opinions at first may seem broadly presumptious considering the subjects dearth of detailed study, his claims seem both accurate to those familiar with the lifestyle and mitigated with his professional experience dealing with the matter. I'd say this qualifies him to at least challenge the subject, even without factual evidence or data. I appreciate his boldness, and feel this debate will be very enlightening for those interested.
 
Doc in Clevelend, I agree with a lot of what you have said about cuckoldry and you make some very interesting points. However being from an academic backround myself I have to say that your writing style is a bit rambling and full of colloquialisms for a supposed medical proffessional. I accept that you may have deliberately chosen to write in 'laymans terms' here but I am personally not convinced that you are really a doctor and people should be aware of this when reading.
 
..

Yeah, that's a very good point, chax. People have no real idea who I am. I could be a complete lunatic. I do not plan to present any form of therapy or conclusions. I have received numerous private messages from individuals here asking a series of questions. I intend to provide no specific concrete therapy but I would like to help some people with things I have learned in my time dealing with this. But do not forget what chax has stated. You have no idea who I am and anything I say should be taken from that perspective.

As far as my style of writing, I revise and edit many times my posts before I put them on the board here. I never want them to come off being clinical and I attempt to communicate instead of educate. I feel that if I present things in a certain light, I am being fraudulent. I cannot provide therapy over an Internet board nor do I intend to do so.

Looking at some of the posts above it would seem I am here to gather education, more than anything else, to help myself in my private practice. It would seem there are many members here who have deeper thoughts over longer periods of time about this subject matter. I was, basically, stunned with the volume of what I was seeing and hearing. I went searching and came upon this forum. That's who I am, that's what I am doing here.

I purposefully meant to be more "layman" because I see the other posts here and this thread, I'm quite sure, has now filtered in to seven people that would read through all of this. Basically because we are discussing reality and the psychological ramifications of this. That isn't so sexy and fantastic sometimes. I didn't want it to become this way. If I wanted to confer with other doctors or equivalent colleagues in sociology or history, I'd go to a conference. This was not my intent. I wanted to try and cull the largest response ratio as possible with what I am attempting to gather. So be it. It is what it is.

That being said, Mac .. you are most in tune to what interests me here. I find myself confronted with individuals that are struggling with this subject matter in their sexual lives. Depression is a very large part of this. However, as I'm sure you can attest, once properly dealing with that, there is a form of satisfaction that deeply resonates with males.

I have no opinion nor am qualified to speak on any natural selection or biological facts or history concerning the lifestyle. I am interested in helping individuals deal with the feelings and repercussions of how they perceive themselves and find a deeper level of contentment in the lifestyle.

Doc

..
 
Your view of "academic writing ability," Chax, is optimistic...

Chax,

chax said:
Doc in Clevelend, I agree with a lot of what you have said about cuckoldry and you make some very interesting points. However being from an academic backround myself I have to say that your writing style is a bit rambling and full of colloquialisms for a supposed medical proffessional. .... I am personally not convinced that you are really a doctor and people should be aware of this when reading. [Um... reading what?]

Please... as an "academic," surely you must be aware that if a person has advanced degrees and is a professional, be it in (e.g.) medicine, law, or academia, that's no guarantee he or she will also have good writing ability. The professions are filled with people having what might be called "marginal" ability to communicate clearly in writing.

As supporting evidence, I could point out you misspelled "Clevelend" (=> "Cleveland") and, as Mac mentioned, "proffessional" (=> "professional"), but it would seem ungenerous to do so. (On being caught misspelling a word myself some time ago ["Go back to school" was the suggestion], I responded: "Jeez... there are spelling experts everywhere...")

Regardless, I find Doc in Cleveland's posts articulate, clear, well thought-out and easy to read. As such, they satisfy much of the definition of good writing and, in addition, are valuable contributions to this forum.

—Custer
 
i agree

Lets not get too critical on some grammatical errors. We are not here extend our knowledge of the English language.

You may even find that some of the people here posting with some errors, may not actually use English as their first language and doing their best using it as a second language.

Its all about not making presumptions on people without even knowing them or their background...ironic as most cuckolds would love not to be judged in their lifestyle wants/needs etc. yet some still manage to do it themselves in other ways!
 

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