I think it is an awesome change if Sue is going to let you be more involved, like allowing you to share their sex during actual intercourse and later with openly allowing you to clean eat her without restriction. If you are able to do those things and you both enjoy them and you both enjoy keeping her pussy clean for her lover, than it sounds like you should just continue down this path and ultimately take the bare sex when you think it is necessary. Personally, I think that if you are both this excited by condom sex then just keep enjoying! You go STB! Accept it and love it!
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So, we talked more last night both before, during and after our usual routine. I told her again how I wasn't sure I was ready for something that seemed like a big-step and she said she understood but that she still thinks it will be something that works for me. And she opened the door a little bit by saying "it's going to be never honey" and when she saw me look at her with a questioning look she smiled and then said "but no more than just once or twice, you know, a year or so".
It felt very surreal to be talking like this and I told her so, that it seemed we were being a bit casual with something that had, at least I felt, this much meaning and significance. So she asked me again about how I felt about my whole "beta thing" and she said that before I answered that she said she'd seen me being much more calm and accepting of everything now and that she felt as she'd said before, that I am fighting something that she thinks deep down inside I want and would be good for me. She kissed me and said "You're no less of a man or husband to me if you don't cum in me baby". I told her that it was more than that and I think it is and she said she knows and she was the one who said "it's what it symbolizes and what it means, right honey?". And when I nodded she held my hands and said again how she feels its incredibly romantic what I've already been doing and she said "it's just more of that honey, it doesn't mean anything about you....". And she looked at me again and asked me how I felt as a beta.
I told her that I thought we were doing really good and yes, I told her that I liked how it felt between her and I knowing how she looks to Paul for her sexual fulfillment. She asked me if I meant that and I was able to tell her that I did. The more I talked and the more she listened, the easier it was to talk. I told her that I loved how she was working things with Paul and that it felt good to me and I thanked her for not pushing things in other directions or not pushing me totally out of her bed. That made her laugh and she leaned over and kissed me and said "you're silly, I want all of you baby, well...." and with a teasing tone "... well, not your cum.... and not so much your cock..... but the rest of you, I love". But then she turned to me and asked me "can you tell me what you feel or what it makes you feel?". By this time she'd stood next to the bed and said, as she pushed her panties down "can you tell me how you feel about maybe not cumming in here" and she thrust her crotch forward and took both hands and spread her pussy apart.
If I wasn't stroking already, I surely was after that. She lay down next to me, naked and breathing heavy herself, and she told me she was horny from not seeing Paul as much and she giggled and said "maybe I'll take it out on you and tell you all about it". I turned to her and must have had a look on my face because she immediately said "I'm just talking to you baby, nothing else" and she patted my hand as to tell me to keep stroking.
I told her again how I wasn't sure I was ready to give up, or rather, go down to just one or two times a year to cum in her and she giggled and said "well, beta.... it's not really your choice, it's something I'd like you to agree to though". I didn't say anything but I did get the feeling from how she'd said it that she was more serious about it than I may have thought. She giggled and said "we'll have fun honey, I can tease you about it afterwards and..." she looked at me and added "... and I know it will turn you on that much more when you know it's for real....". But she immediately added "but.... if you're not ready yet, then that's okay, we can still have fun the way it is" and she leaned towards me and said "I can still get you horny as hell this way...." and she kissed my cheek and sort of tickled my ear with her tongue.
She pulled back and she looked at me jerking off and she told me how erotic it was to watch a guy do it but how it was even more erotic to watch me - and she said "after so long now on Wednesdays, I really love to watch you honey". And then she added "and I love seeing what turns you on the most". After a minute she leaned closer and whispered "I think it really does turn you on, doesn't it honey?.... You know, to think that maybe you won't get to cum in me any more....." and after a moment she added "... ever." I didn't mean to but couldn't help let out a moan as she said that. "It really is beautiful, just like you tell me, when I get to watch you cum" and she leaned down towards me once more and she said "I love seeing your cum go all over but you know what turns me on...." and I moaned back "uh huh" she giggled and said "I like thinking of how it used to all be inside me and how that was so important to you". And then she kissed me again only this time very passionately and said "but I love how things have changed and how that's going to be something very special for you in the future honey".
I admit that in the heat of the moment, I get carried away too - either in my own head or in conversation with her. It's so easy once it's comfortable talking to her to just let my thoughts flow. I told her "yeah, I know, it's really exciting" and she seemed to smile in how she said "mmm baby, I knew it would turn you on". I managed to tell her that I loved the thought of it and how it'd feel between us and she cooed and said "tell me more baby" and I did. As I stroked away I told her how turned on I was at times when I thought about it. She playfully moaned and teased me and said "let me see all that cum tonight honey, get it really going baby" and then she said "I want to see you cum". As I stroked away she kept talking "you know baby, once you say okay to it, I"m really going to start to tease you about it, will that be okay?". I grunted and was quickly moving to being so worked up that I couldn't reply. She leaned up on her elbow as she watched and then continued talking "you'll see all my wet panties and you'll know none of it is from you".
I have to say I haven't seen her this animated in a while but I also felt it was coming. She cooed at me "all you need to do is say okay baby". "You know, then I'll probably let you see and even touch more of me, you know, after I"m done". And then she said something that I had been wondering about and something she'd said before too - that "maybe then I won't feel so obligated at times to you know, let you have me....". In my head it was about me having her bare but I later realized she could have meant more by it. I managed to groan back and say something like "I"m still scared a bit" and she giggled and said "that's okay baby, we'll get there" and then she added "I still think you're ready and we just need to work on it a little bit more". I was pretty close and I think she knew it and she leaned in really close and said in this incredibly sexy voice "I love the thought of you not cumming in me honey, it's just so crazy".
I don't know what it was - maybe it was everything in my head or what she'd teased me about or it all combined - but as she said that all I needed to hear - it set off a chain of events that resulted in me exploding a second later and her squealing "oh yeah, oh that's really hot to see".
Thing was - whereas she'd normally get into playing with my cum and cleaning me up, last night as I lay there with a load of cum all over my stomach she first started to talk. One of the first things she said was that "you're going to be doing that more for me in the future honey, I love watching you".
It felt very surreal to be talking like this and I told her so, that it seemed we were being a bit casual with something that had, at least I felt, this much meaning and significance. So she asked me again about how I felt about my whole "beta thing" and she said that before I answered that she said she'd seen me being much more calm and accepting of everything now and that she felt as she'd said before, that I am fighting something that she thinks deep down inside I want and would be good for me. She kissed me and said "You're no less of a man or husband to me if you don't cum in me baby". I told her that it was more than that and I think it is and she said she knows and she was the one who said "it's what it symbolizes and what it means, right honey?". And when I nodded she held my hands and said again how she feels its incredibly romantic what I've already been doing and she said "it's just more of that honey, it doesn't mean anything about you....". And she looked at me again and asked me how I felt as a beta.
I told her that I thought we were doing really good and yes, I told her that I liked how it felt between her and I knowing how she looks to Paul for her sexual fulfillment. She asked me if I meant that and I was able to tell her that I did. The more I talked and the more she listened, the easier it was to talk. I told her that I loved how she was working things with Paul and that it felt good to me and I thanked her for not pushing things in other directions or not pushing me totally out of her bed. That made her laugh and she leaned over and kissed me and said "you're silly, I want all of you baby, well...." and with a teasing tone "... well, not your cum.... and not so much your cock..... but the rest of you, I love". But then she turned to me and asked me "can you tell me what you feel or what it makes you feel?". By this time she'd stood next to the bed and said, as she pushed her panties down "can you tell me how you feel about maybe not cumming in here" and she thrust her crotch forward and took both hands and spread her pussy apart.
If I wasn't stroking already, I surely was after that. She lay down next to me, naked and breathing heavy herself, and she told me she was horny from not seeing Paul as much and she giggled and said "maybe I'll take it out on you and tell you all about it". I turned to her and must have had a look on my face because she immediately said "I'm just talking to you baby, nothing else" and she patted my hand as to tell me to keep stroking.
I told her again how I wasn't sure I was ready to give up, or rather, go down to just one or two times a year to cum in her and she giggled and said "well, beta.... it's not really your choice, it's something I'd like you to agree to though". I didn't say anything but I did get the feeling from how she'd said it that she was more serious about it than I may have thought. She giggled and said "we'll have fun honey, I can tease you about it afterwards and..." she looked at me and added "... and I know it will turn you on that much more when you know it's for real....". But she immediately added "but.... if you're not ready yet, then that's okay, we can still have fun the way it is" and she leaned towards me and said "I can still get you horny as hell this way...." and she kissed my cheek and sort of tickled my ear with her tongue.
She pulled back and she looked at me jerking off and she told me how erotic it was to watch a guy do it but how it was even more erotic to watch me - and she said "after so long now on Wednesdays, I really love to watch you honey". And then she added "and I love seeing what turns you on the most". After a minute she leaned closer and whispered "I think it really does turn you on, doesn't it honey?.... You know, to think that maybe you won't get to cum in me any more....." and after a moment she added "... ever." I didn't mean to but couldn't help let out a moan as she said that. "It really is beautiful, just like you tell me, when I get to watch you cum" and she leaned down towards me once more and she said "I love seeing your cum go all over but you know what turns me on...." and I moaned back "uh huh" she giggled and said "I like thinking of how it used to all be inside me and how that was so important to you". And then she kissed me again only this time very passionately and said "but I love how things have changed and how that's going to be something very special for you in the future honey".
I admit that in the heat of the moment, I get carried away too - either in my own head or in conversation with her. It's so easy once it's comfortable talking to her to just let my thoughts flow. I told her "yeah, I know, it's really exciting" and she seemed to smile in how she said "mmm baby, I knew it would turn you on". I managed to tell her that I loved the thought of it and how it'd feel between us and she cooed and said "tell me more baby" and I did. As I stroked away I told her how turned on I was at times when I thought about it. She playfully moaned and teased me and said "let me see all that cum tonight honey, get it really going baby" and then she said "I want to see you cum". As I stroked away she kept talking "you know baby, once you say okay to it, I"m really going to start to tease you about it, will that be okay?". I grunted and was quickly moving to being so worked up that I couldn't reply. She leaned up on her elbow as she watched and then continued talking "you'll see all my wet panties and you'll know none of it is from you".
I have to say I haven't seen her this animated in a while but I also felt it was coming. She cooed at me "all you need to do is say okay baby". "You know, then I'll probably let you see and even touch more of me, you know, after I"m done". And then she said something that I had been wondering about and something she'd said before too - that "maybe then I won't feel so obligated at times to you know, let you have me....". In my head it was about me having her bare but I later realized she could have meant more by it. I managed to groan back and say something like "I"m still scared a bit" and she giggled and said "that's okay baby, we'll get there" and then she added "I still think you're ready and we just need to work on it a little bit more". I was pretty close and I think she knew it and she leaned in really close and said in this incredibly sexy voice "I love the thought of you not cumming in me honey, it's just so crazy".
I don't know what it was - maybe it was everything in my head or what she'd teased me about or it all combined - but as she said that all I needed to hear - it set off a chain of events that resulted in me exploding a second later and her squealing "oh yeah, oh that's really hot to see".
Thing was - whereas she'd normally get into playing with my cum and cleaning me up, last night as I lay there with a load of cum all over my stomach she first started to talk. One of the first things she said was that "you're going to be doing that more for me in the future honey, I love watching you".
I don't understand the reason why she is pushing you? Why can't she understand your reluctance? If she were really caring she would not push you. It's not that you are totally reluctant, but yes she understands that and still she is pushing you in that direction using your horniness and her teasing as a tool. What's in it for her ? Except for humiliating you. What's in it for you? May be I'll never understand. But the way Sue is behaving looks ominous enough.
From reconnecting just a month ago to disconnecting totally ("ever" is the word she uses. She says she doesn't mean it, but doesn't she?) you've come a long way. May be that's the way for cuckolds to live and enjoy. I really feel sad.
What even feels worse is that she uses your intimate moments (Yes you masturbating is all the sexual intimacy...you will soon be having..because she hinted at not wanting your cock also)...to push what she wants. Sorry for saying so STB. But this is beginning to sound worse.
From reconnecting just a month ago to disconnecting totally ("ever" is the word she uses. She says she doesn't mean it, but doesn't she?) you've come a long way. May be that's the way for cuckolds to live and enjoy. I really feel sad.
What even feels worse is that she uses your intimate moments (Yes you masturbating is all the sexual intimacy...you will soon be having..because she hinted at not wanting your cock also)...to push what she wants. Sorry for saying so STB. But this is beginning to sound worse.
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Steve,
You do know there is a reason why legal testimony under duress is not allowed don't you? If you can agree while having a coffee with Sue in a public place that's different but it's still Sue winding you up first. I can't see why you can't just continue. Every time you have 'agreed' something in the past Sue has used it as a starting point for her next step. Maybe you should think what that might be first.
Of course there is also the chance that Sue is just continuing to be making absolutely sure that all this is what you want. She at least seems to have taken on the role of strategic planner. If you said No at this point she would make sure you meant it but probably act on it. If you said Yes she might reveal more of her plan. Just bear in mind what I said last time. You only appear to be together now. Your two positions don't actually function without Paul or a person exactly like him also in place. That is not a sustainable position. Think it through or make sure that Sue has and you agree with her plan.
You do know there is a reason why legal testimony under duress is not allowed don't you? If you can agree while having a coffee with Sue in a public place that's different but it's still Sue winding you up first. I can't see why you can't just continue. Every time you have 'agreed' something in the past Sue has used it as a starting point for her next step. Maybe you should think what that might be first.
Of course there is also the chance that Sue is just continuing to be making absolutely sure that all this is what you want. She at least seems to have taken on the role of strategic planner. If you said No at this point she would make sure you meant it but probably act on it. If you said Yes she might reveal more of her plan. Just bear in mind what I said last time. You only appear to be together now. Your two positions don't actually function without Paul or a person exactly like him also in place. That is not a sustainable position. Think it through or make sure that Sue has and you agree with her plan.
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So - I took the time after we were done last night to ask the proverbial question - why the sudden push for this next step and I told her that I thought there was something more to this because, as I told her, this is already sort of what we're doing already just that you want to now say it's something more formal, real or permanent so I asked her why....
She said she had been waiting for me to ask that question and that answer got my attention as I wasn't expecting to hear it. I also was concerned when she said, "good... are you receptive to the idea?" I nodded without really thinking about it.
Okay - I will say that some of what she said and how she said it does scare me a little bit, not in the way you might think but more in the sense of wondering if I've created a bit of a monster here. Rather than try to write it exactly as she said it - here's the gist of it all.
The first thing she said was that she wants this because it turns her on. That was both reassuring as well as concerning to me but she went on to say that it's been a long time since she felt this way about something as relates to me sexually, that she could feel how it turned me on and that she liked how it feels to be able to do that to me. I told her that she had turned me on all this time and that this "decision" as she was starting to call it wasn't really necessary. I told her that it had turned me on ever since she first slept with "that guy in Boston" which made her blush but she turned to me and said "yeah, but this is the first thing that I've really wanted and that I came up with and that turns me on too". She talked with me for quite a few minutes telling me how it made her feel to know how this affected me and how it made me feel, she said that it had taken her a while to realize how it made her feel which led her to tell me that she knows that for a long time, she went along with what turned me on and that over time, it eventually became something that she learned to be turned on herself about. She said that this is one of the first times she's found and felt something of her own that she is turned on about - and she looked at me and said "and it turns me on to have you not cum inside me". She said it pretty coldly but then she followed and I know she'd been saying it to me for a while, that she felt really good about "us" and that is why she feels okay about asking about this now. But there was something that even I could feel when she told me how she felt about finally having something that she felt turned her on as well as knowing the same for me. "It's been a long time baby since I've been able to make you feel this way" and she giggled that "it's fun" and said that she wanted it to be good for both of us. She also said that in some ways we already said this, and she reminded me of our New Years Eve vows and where she said that we never really talked about it but she pointed out that we'd sort of agreed to this already.
Before I could say anything more, she turned the tables on me and asked me "come on honey, it's not something to be scared of" and she said that "if it doesn't work for us, then we won't do it". I told her that I still wasn't sure why she needed this big decision vs just doing what we've been doing for the past 2+ years. She looked at me and said that she knows it scares me and she said again how "it's not going to be never again" but then said that she wanted it to be something that wasn't expected at all when (if?) it happens. She sat close to me and hugged me and said "can we focus on what turns you on about it baby and not what you're scared of" and she told me that she was sure that as a man that it would be concerning that I might not get to feel that again - but then she turned to face me and said "but baby, I know it turns you on to think about it" and she hugged me and said "I think you should relax about it lets try it out" but then she added "if you're not ready then it's okay, we can keep talking about it". Before she moved on in the conversation she giggled and said "It's going to be fun when you're ready baby, I think you're going to love it".
She did start to talk about that feeling of being obligated again and she was honest and said that it wasn't like the last time when she felt she needed to break free of this feeling of being obligated, but that in some ways it did feel the same. She told me that just as I felt conflicted, that she too did. She says that after a long time or a weekend away with Paul, that she says she still feels like she needs to not just have sex with me (which we talked more about) but that she admitted that she has that same feeling at times of being obligated to let me have her bare. She said it was silly and that she knows it, but at the same time she said that it was something she felt and that she felt I should know it. She said she knows that things have been better between us in general since her last epiphany related to feeling obligated. I told her in response that I do know she feels better about herself and I admitted that it turned me on when I knew she felt that way (that she didn't want to have sex with me after coming home from being with Paul) but I told her that just like that situation, that she shouldn't ever feel obligated and she smiled and said "that's what I'm trying to say to you" and it made me realize that she's okay with telling me to use condoms and expressing herself like that, but that this "big decision" is really the same issue - that she wants to know and feel that she needn't feel that way and I realized for myself that this is very much how she approached it last time too where she wanted a clean-break for a while so she could feel confident about herself and us when she would tell me she didn't want to have sex with me. Whether she could express it that way, I'm not sure, but as she talked, it became clear to me where this was coming from and what she felt she wanted.
I"m not saying any of this makes any sense. I never really bought it the last time she was focused on this feeling of obligation but I did have to admit that it did seem to help her better relate to me and to feel more "normal" being together at times when she had previously felt that sort of feeling. I was going to try to talk about more but also realized that there was little point in that just like last time, when she has a feeling or a need or a desire that seems to consume her, there didn't seem to be any deviance from it and that I am already accepting that she's going to want this fulfilled before we go elsewhere. I will say that she's said several times that "if it's not working then we can change it" but at the same time I think I know that I'm not really being given a choice of yes or no but rather being asked "when".
I asked her if this was anything to do with Paul. She said that she did feel it was going to enhance things between them as she was going to tell him what we were doing and she said that she was sure he would find it something hot too. She said that he's asked about me at times and how he's said that it's very cool that we can have fun like this. "He doesn't think there's anything wrong with what we're talking about" and I answered her back by saying "yeah, he's the one getting to fuck you" and se giggled and said "yes, but he's sincere about you and even he's said that you seem pretty into what we are doing" and again she giggled and said to me "you just need to relax a bit more about it".
I thought all was done for the evening last night when we were lying spooned up watching TV and she whispered "what do you think about July 4th?". I told her that we could do what we usually do - go with the kids to a fireworks show. She giggled and said "no silly, you know, from before, what if July 4th were the last time?". She put her hand behind her back and ran it down and she felt my cock feeling a little swollen even after masturbating earlier and she giggled and snuggled back against me when I didn't answer.
Raks - I know you are still caught up in equating her approach towards sex with me as implying something about the love we feel for each other. I suppose you'll never be able to see the difference or the ability for them to be separated.
She said she had been waiting for me to ask that question and that answer got my attention as I wasn't expecting to hear it. I also was concerned when she said, "good... are you receptive to the idea?" I nodded without really thinking about it.
Okay - I will say that some of what she said and how she said it does scare me a little bit, not in the way you might think but more in the sense of wondering if I've created a bit of a monster here. Rather than try to write it exactly as she said it - here's the gist of it all.
The first thing she said was that she wants this because it turns her on. That was both reassuring as well as concerning to me but she went on to say that it's been a long time since she felt this way about something as relates to me sexually, that she could feel how it turned me on and that she liked how it feels to be able to do that to me. I told her that she had turned me on all this time and that this "decision" as she was starting to call it wasn't really necessary. I told her that it had turned me on ever since she first slept with "that guy in Boston" which made her blush but she turned to me and said "yeah, but this is the first thing that I've really wanted and that I came up with and that turns me on too". She talked with me for quite a few minutes telling me how it made her feel to know how this affected me and how it made me feel, she said that it had taken her a while to realize how it made her feel which led her to tell me that she knows that for a long time, she went along with what turned me on and that over time, it eventually became something that she learned to be turned on herself about. She said that this is one of the first times she's found and felt something of her own that she is turned on about - and she looked at me and said "and it turns me on to have you not cum inside me". She said it pretty coldly but then she followed and I know she'd been saying it to me for a while, that she felt really good about "us" and that is why she feels okay about asking about this now. But there was something that even I could feel when she told me how she felt about finally having something that she felt turned her on as well as knowing the same for me. "It's been a long time baby since I've been able to make you feel this way" and she giggled that "it's fun" and said that she wanted it to be good for both of us. She also said that in some ways we already said this, and she reminded me of our New Years Eve vows and where she said that we never really talked about it but she pointed out that we'd sort of agreed to this already.
Before I could say anything more, she turned the tables on me and asked me "come on honey, it's not something to be scared of" and she said that "if it doesn't work for us, then we won't do it". I told her that I still wasn't sure why she needed this big decision vs just doing what we've been doing for the past 2+ years. She looked at me and said that she knows it scares me and she said again how "it's not going to be never again" but then said that she wanted it to be something that wasn't expected at all when (if?) it happens. She sat close to me and hugged me and said "can we focus on what turns you on about it baby and not what you're scared of" and she told me that she was sure that as a man that it would be concerning that I might not get to feel that again - but then she turned to face me and said "but baby, I know it turns you on to think about it" and she hugged me and said "I think you should relax about it lets try it out" but then she added "if you're not ready then it's okay, we can keep talking about it". Before she moved on in the conversation she giggled and said "It's going to be fun when you're ready baby, I think you're going to love it".
She did start to talk about that feeling of being obligated again and she was honest and said that it wasn't like the last time when she felt she needed to break free of this feeling of being obligated, but that in some ways it did feel the same. She told me that just as I felt conflicted, that she too did. She says that after a long time or a weekend away with Paul, that she says she still feels like she needs to not just have sex with me (which we talked more about) but that she admitted that she has that same feeling at times of being obligated to let me have her bare. She said it was silly and that she knows it, but at the same time she said that it was something she felt and that she felt I should know it. She said she knows that things have been better between us in general since her last epiphany related to feeling obligated. I told her in response that I do know she feels better about herself and I admitted that it turned me on when I knew she felt that way (that she didn't want to have sex with me after coming home from being with Paul) but I told her that just like that situation, that she shouldn't ever feel obligated and she smiled and said "that's what I'm trying to say to you" and it made me realize that she's okay with telling me to use condoms and expressing herself like that, but that this "big decision" is really the same issue - that she wants to know and feel that she needn't feel that way and I realized for myself that this is very much how she approached it last time too where she wanted a clean-break for a while so she could feel confident about herself and us when she would tell me she didn't want to have sex with me. Whether she could express it that way, I'm not sure, but as she talked, it became clear to me where this was coming from and what she felt she wanted.
I"m not saying any of this makes any sense. I never really bought it the last time she was focused on this feeling of obligation but I did have to admit that it did seem to help her better relate to me and to feel more "normal" being together at times when she had previously felt that sort of feeling. I was going to try to talk about more but also realized that there was little point in that just like last time, when she has a feeling or a need or a desire that seems to consume her, there didn't seem to be any deviance from it and that I am already accepting that she's going to want this fulfilled before we go elsewhere. I will say that she's said several times that "if it's not working then we can change it" but at the same time I think I know that I'm not really being given a choice of yes or no but rather being asked "when".
I asked her if this was anything to do with Paul. She said that she did feel it was going to enhance things between them as she was going to tell him what we were doing and she said that she was sure he would find it something hot too. She said that he's asked about me at times and how he's said that it's very cool that we can have fun like this. "He doesn't think there's anything wrong with what we're talking about" and I answered her back by saying "yeah, he's the one getting to fuck you" and se giggled and said "yes, but he's sincere about you and even he's said that you seem pretty into what we are doing" and again she giggled and said to me "you just need to relax a bit more about it".
I thought all was done for the evening last night when we were lying spooned up watching TV and she whispered "what do you think about July 4th?". I told her that we could do what we usually do - go with the kids to a fireworks show. She giggled and said "no silly, you know, from before, what if July 4th were the last time?". She put her hand behind her back and ran it down and she felt my cock feeling a little swollen even after masturbating earlier and she giggled and snuggled back against me when I didn't answer.
Raks - I know you are still caught up in equating her approach towards sex with me as implying something about the love we feel for each other. I suppose you'll never be able to see the difference or the ability for them to be separated.
SquirmingSub said:
Clearly the love you share goes beyond just sex. I say let her take the lead and let go enjoying the ride. Sure will it be frustrating at times, yes! Will it be out of control, sure! Will it get you hard as ever, hell yeah! So jerk off with each other, turn that into your thing. You'll get over it once you establish that "your sex" is different yet still fulfilling. So whats the story with her denying you more? Is that how im reading that?
My first thought at a response was to say that it's not a done-deal yet. But as I started to type this I think the reality of the situation is that everyone and now me likely knows that I'm going to say yes. I'm still not totally sure but a part of me also feels that maybe she is right and this is what I and we both want? I think it makes sense and I'd be lying if I said it didn't turn me on, but I'm going to need to shed some of this apprehension by then. Maybe she's right, maybe I'm making more out of this than need be and that I'm over responding but on the other hand, when I think about it I get some misgivings. I went back and re-read what we'd said to each other on that New Years Eve now a year and a half ago and I know that we said we would make it seem real, but at the same time, I know that we both didn't feel it at the time and that it was more of a turn-on for both of us. But that is also what I remember too - how aroused I was and how it felt to let myself think that may have been the last time. I know it's going to sound crazy but it makes me crazy to think about that and makes me unbelievably horny! Maybe she's right, she finds it as a romantic feeling, I can't exactly describe it other than to say that it makes me so horny to think about it.
She wants to talk about it more later tonight and says that she wants to be sure I'm okay about everything.
She wants to talk about it more later tonight and says that she wants to be sure I'm okay about everything.
Steve,
Why not keep it as a game? You have gone months before without bare intercourse. What more sacrifices do ,you, need to make here?
It is human nature to push boundaries so my question is what is the next boundary down the road. Exclusive living with Paul for days on end? Probably....... Then what is next?
I do not think Sue is thinking here with her big head but rather her little one. What this could set in motion ? What are the long-term realities that could have very ugly manifestations ?
Where is your input, finding that middle ground?
We sometimes look to our spouses thru rim colored glasses. Sue is human, as you, maybe, letting her hormonal desire drive this.
Peak has a valid point, being she is engaging your sexual desire to make this decision. Would one with true love and concern for the other do this? Don't think so. Rather she would have a calm well thought talk devoid of bedroom antics so that you could make a better decision with all your facilities engaged.
There is only so much hormnal happiness to be found before the damn can break.
Think of the evil cycle of drug addiction always wanting more and more.
If their is true love here for you then you each have equal say in the matter. If one begins to dictate terms their way then the word marriage, relationship tends to break down ever so slowly.
Any marriage is sacrificing for the other with an on going basis.
If you were to say yes then what boundaries remain to keep this in check? When will Paul, no matter what Sue says, starts to feel empowered potentially and assume the alpha male that Sue is greasing the stage for his up spurt?
The marriage comes first always in this game and the bull/Paul remains a third wheel.
This appears to be leaving this ground and with your children nearly out of your house no boundaries will remain to prevent further erosion.
Poly? Equal relationship here? More trending to alone exclusivity, then living arrangement change are more favorable here down the road with your time together reduced more in Paul's favorite now with Sue more empowered then ever dictating more.
Less respect to you and for you.
End of the day your being dis respected with her using your sexual desire to leverage your decision. You seem not to be able too see this clearly. What is occurring.
Why not the approach, "Steve think about this and when, you, have made a decision concerning lets talk?"
Hope this helps and with respect to you and your continuing marriage.
Regards
Why not keep it as a game? You have gone months before without bare intercourse. What more sacrifices do ,you, need to make here?
It is human nature to push boundaries so my question is what is the next boundary down the road. Exclusive living with Paul for days on end? Probably....... Then what is next?
I do not think Sue is thinking here with her big head but rather her little one. What this could set in motion ? What are the long-term realities that could have very ugly manifestations ?
Where is your input, finding that middle ground?
We sometimes look to our spouses thru rim colored glasses. Sue is human, as you, maybe, letting her hormonal desire drive this.
Peak has a valid point, being she is engaging your sexual desire to make this decision. Would one with true love and concern for the other do this? Don't think so. Rather she would have a calm well thought talk devoid of bedroom antics so that you could make a better decision with all your facilities engaged.
There is only so much hormnal happiness to be found before the damn can break.
Think of the evil cycle of drug addiction always wanting more and more.
If their is true love here for you then you each have equal say in the matter. If one begins to dictate terms their way then the word marriage, relationship tends to break down ever so slowly.
Any marriage is sacrificing for the other with an on going basis.
If you were to say yes then what boundaries remain to keep this in check? When will Paul, no matter what Sue says, starts to feel empowered potentially and assume the alpha male that Sue is greasing the stage for his up spurt?
The marriage comes first always in this game and the bull/Paul remains a third wheel.
This appears to be leaving this ground and with your children nearly out of your house no boundaries will remain to prevent further erosion.
Poly? Equal relationship here? More trending to alone exclusivity, then living arrangement change are more favorable here down the road with your time together reduced more in Paul's favorite now with Sue more empowered then ever dictating more.
Less respect to you and for you.
End of the day your being dis respected with her using your sexual desire to leverage your decision. You seem not to be able too see this clearly. What is occurring.
Why not the approach, "Steve think about this and when, you, have made a decision concerning lets talk?"
Hope this helps and with respect to you and your continuing marriage.
Regards
Last edited:
Steve,
I don’t think I could have been clearer in my last two posts in asking questions about what this means for you both and the unstable and unsustainable position you are now in with Paul going forward. Your very detailed posts suggest that you are too close to the issue and thinking with your hard-on to focus in any real sense at present so it is understandable that you dodged most of it. I suggest you consider a few things before making your final choice.
1. What comes next. Sue isn’t finished here. You need to understand what may happen along the line.
2. By now, you understand better what turns you on and why. I accept that the beta denial works for you but why does it work for Sue? She has said it does nothing for Paul, so its not that. I cannot see what she gets out of having less sex overall and hugely less sex (condom or not) with the man she says she still has the highest emotional connection to.
3. Think carefully about how you felt last year and in February this year. Emotionally unfulfilled and sexually ignored. In both cases Sue turned on the bareback sex to recover the position. Without these recovery gestures from her it has now actually been a long time (and infrequent) that Sue has actually initiated bareback sex with you because she actually wanted it, as apposed to feeling that she needed to. You really need to know why, what is behind this? Before you embark on formalising it.
4. The issue of Sue saying repeatedly you can always ask and she will consider / deliver does not answer the question of why Sue no longer seems to want sex with you. Make this question about her. Dodge all issues about how you may feel about it if she raises them. Get an answer to this core question. If all of this from Sue is a smoke screen to cover the fact that she no longer finds sex with you desirable / exciting / fulfilling / emotionally connecting except on a hugely infrequent basis then you need to know why. If she says she does find sex with you covers these qualities then ask why so infrequent.
5. If you do fall into the pit of despair you were in last year and in February it will be more difficult to make progress if you have formally agreed some of the cause beforehand.
6. Call some sort of time out before you decide. Get your head clear of the short term excitement before going ahead.
7. Sue clearly likes extended sex over several hours and several orgasms from her lover (he came in me twice baby etc..). If she is ever going to enjoy bareback with you in the same way, even if only twice a year, you need to be ready mentally to deliver and make it enjoyable for you both. This will never happen if she just springs in on to you on some random night of her choosing as if to just get it out of the way until next time. I can’t think of anything more disrespectful to the memory of the sex life you used to have or the truly deep equal connection such episodes should be.
I don’t think I could have been clearer in my last two posts in asking questions about what this means for you both and the unstable and unsustainable position you are now in with Paul going forward. Your very detailed posts suggest that you are too close to the issue and thinking with your hard-on to focus in any real sense at present so it is understandable that you dodged most of it. I suggest you consider a few things before making your final choice.
1. What comes next. Sue isn’t finished here. You need to understand what may happen along the line.
2. By now, you understand better what turns you on and why. I accept that the beta denial works for you but why does it work for Sue? She has said it does nothing for Paul, so its not that. I cannot see what she gets out of having less sex overall and hugely less sex (condom or not) with the man she says she still has the highest emotional connection to.
3. Think carefully about how you felt last year and in February this year. Emotionally unfulfilled and sexually ignored. In both cases Sue turned on the bareback sex to recover the position. Without these recovery gestures from her it has now actually been a long time (and infrequent) that Sue has actually initiated bareback sex with you because she actually wanted it, as apposed to feeling that she needed to. You really need to know why, what is behind this? Before you embark on formalising it.
4. The issue of Sue saying repeatedly you can always ask and she will consider / deliver does not answer the question of why Sue no longer seems to want sex with you. Make this question about her. Dodge all issues about how you may feel about it if she raises them. Get an answer to this core question. If all of this from Sue is a smoke screen to cover the fact that she no longer finds sex with you desirable / exciting / fulfilling / emotionally connecting except on a hugely infrequent basis then you need to know why. If she says she does find sex with you covers these qualities then ask why so infrequent.
5. If you do fall into the pit of despair you were in last year and in February it will be more difficult to make progress if you have formally agreed some of the cause beforehand.
6. Call some sort of time out before you decide. Get your head clear of the short term excitement before going ahead.
7. Sue clearly likes extended sex over several hours and several orgasms from her lover (he came in me twice baby etc..). If she is ever going to enjoy bareback with you in the same way, even if only twice a year, you need to be ready mentally to deliver and make it enjoyable for you both. This will never happen if she just springs in on to you on some random night of her choosing as if to just get it out of the way until next time. I can’t think of anything more disrespectful to the memory of the sex life you used to have or the truly deep equal connection such episodes should be.
Very balanced response Manon. And quite an analogy.
While others are cheering you STB to go down that path...and you tend to disregard my opinion since I cannot seem to separate love and sex. But Sue's statement a few months ago corroborated what I amsaying "she asked me what I thought was going to happen when the only one she's really making-love with is Paul and not me. And as I answered she came out and said it again, that she would actually prefer to have sex with Paul rather than me - and it's not just that he's the one cumming in her (although she says that weighs heavily on her arousal), but that she feels she responds more to him and that she feels more in touch and comfortable with him sexually. But she looked at me and again asked me what I thought was going to happen over time based on what I'd told her - and she looked at me and said "you did say you wanted me to look to him when I wanted sex, right?" and when I said yes she told me that it wouldn't be possible for her to not feel anything more for him either in terms of desire - be it physical or emotional. " (Post 111) And she added "She said that it's not that this isn't going to change things between us and she admitted that when I first came to her with my desires, that she too feared changing how she felt about me - but again she's said that now almost 2 years since my beta admission to her - that she's accepted that she enjoys sex very much and even more with Paul than with me and she used the word "compartmentalized" (which I know she got somewhere off the web) when she said how she's separated her sexual desire from me now. She made it clear that this is something she feels right now and she even joked in a cold way that she gets wet for Paul now but that it takes a lot for her to feel herself get wet for me sexually."
But dear, let us have a quick look at facts:
1. Here is what you said - "I will say that some of what she said and how she said it does scare me a little bit, not in the way you might think but more in the sense of wondering if I've created a bit of a monster here." You are scared, only you are not letting yourself know. Not only that you are wondering if you have created a monster. I know that you have not. But when you think like that, don't you feel that you are exactly thinking what I am, even if it's for a moment only. Rest of the time, you are drowned in self made world of arousal and angst.
2. She said that "if it doesn't work for us, then we won't do it" She has said that before and not listened to you. We all remember what happened a few months ago. And in your own words - " I will say that she's said several times that "if it's not working then we can change it" but at the same time I think I know that I'm not really being given a choice of yes or no but rather being asked "when". So please go into this open eyed. If you can't accept the reality - you will soon be challenging it. And I remember even squirm suggesting some rules and boundaries a few months ago. Squirm, how can you forget that? Don't you have some advice for STB?
3. Before she moved on in the conversation she giggled and said "It's going to be fun when you're ready baby, I think you're going to love it". Really? For how long? And I wonder if it is about you or is it about her and Paul. As you say later - I asked her if this was anything to do with Paul. She said that she did feel it was going to enhance things between them as she was going to tell him what we were doing and she said that she was sure he would find it something hot too. If things are going to enhance between her and Paul - they are going to decline between you and Sue.
4.She did start to talk about that feeling of being obligated again and she was honest and said that it wasn't like the last time when she felt she needed to break free of this feeling of being obligated, but that in some ways it did feel the same. Wow ..how many times did she oblige you during past two years? How anything is going to cure this strange obsession of hers? What if tomorrow she says that She has that feeling of being obligated by coming home to you...then what ? Are you going to acquiesce to her demands then also as Manon has suggested? What next? Instead of feeling that way she should have been grateful for what you have and sill are agreeing to. But then...as she said -"well, beta.... it's not really your choice, it's something I'd like you to agree to though".
5. Squirm, do you really think this is how the communication should be between a Cuckoldress and a cuckold ? If yes, then I have nothing to add. Don't let this wreck what you have STB. Think with saner mind. And as you put it "We were being a bit casual with something that had, at least I felt, this much meaning and significance". So while you attach meaning and significance to it, Sue doesn't. Remember your words - "Based on the most recent incident, it truly appears that there had not been truly open, detailed and honest communication about their respective desires and what the over expectations were by both Steve and Sue which in turn lead to miss-understanding by each of them. Sue had seemingly moved forward in treating the extended adventures as more of the norm, making this part of a lifestyle choice while it would appear that Steve was not quite on the same page with Sue." (Post 150)
6. Also remember Squirm -when you posted this - "Rak as to your question, this would really get down to what Steve truly considers displeasure and how offended was he by Sue changing up the plans for this weekend. Sue may have been understand the impression as the alpha within the relationship that she had the ability/right to be able to make adjustments or changes to the weekend schedule without consulting Steve in advance. We all need to remember that Steve did in his own way request this relationship dynamic in the bedroom although the more alpha Sue becomes sexually, the more her confident dominate side will begin to show outside of the bedroom, outside of the sexual side of the relationship. This is something that I have a feeling that Steve has not expected to happen. I have always said that no matter the couple, no matter the relationship model, a couple should always have honest and open communication" (Post 95)
6. And when I nodded she held my hands and said again how she feels its incredibly romantic what I've already been doing and she said "it's just more of that honey, it doesn't mean anything about you....". And she looked at me again and asked me how I felt as a beta. Is it really romantic? And if we all remember her words just a few months ago, she had said this - She told me that it was hard to not want him more and she admitted again that she sex with him is better than with me right now. She insists that "it's just what we're doing" and in that she said that if I didn't want to be the beta-guy for her, that it would be different. But she also added that she knows this has been good for me and that she knows it makes me feel fulfilled somehow sexually (paraphrasing what she took ages to say) and that she is okay with this if I am.
And finally remember what you promised to each other - She's said that she is going to reduce/limit her time with Paul until we get ourselves into a better rhythm - and yes she knows that will mean that periodically - perhaps once a month or longer, perhaps 2 as Raks suggested, that we will take time to focus on each other's pleasure directly instead of indirectly. So yes, a weekend away filled with passion between just us is much of what we agreed to.
There are many thread on this forum and in some, people are doing things much more extreme than what you are planning to. The problem is that - this is not the STB that we know and this is not certainly that Sue that we know. And, that's why I am requesting you to please reconsider. Please remind her what she has said a few weeks earlier - "After cumming in her we talked a lot and she felt that it was good that I understood that she still was going to control when and how we had sex - and she's said that I am not done using condoms - but she also said that, especially after feeling me in her bare, that it wasn't something she wanted to do without - at least not on a longer-term basis" (Post 220). And here she is, doing exactly the opposite. Also remind yourself as to what you said - "I do still love her fucking Paul though - and that is something that isn't likely to change. But I'll also admit, it felt awesome to feel her so naturally and fully again." (Post 220). Not once only, but she has said so explicilty again in Post 223- She asked me how that was going to make me feel, especially after feeling her again and I had to admit that it seemed to arouse me even more now. She said she liked that and again that she would be the one to decide when I will get to have that again with her. But it does seem that "special occasions" as well as "whenever I like" will be the rule of thumb. She actually laughed and said that I might want to not masturbate quite so much because "you never know when". So that is something we will be exploring a bit more with."
While others are cheering you STB to go down that path...and you tend to disregard my opinion since I cannot seem to separate love and sex. But Sue's statement a few months ago corroborated what I amsaying "she asked me what I thought was going to happen when the only one she's really making-love with is Paul and not me. And as I answered she came out and said it again, that she would actually prefer to have sex with Paul rather than me - and it's not just that he's the one cumming in her (although she says that weighs heavily on her arousal), but that she feels she responds more to him and that she feels more in touch and comfortable with him sexually. But she looked at me and again asked me what I thought was going to happen over time based on what I'd told her - and she looked at me and said "you did say you wanted me to look to him when I wanted sex, right?" and when I said yes she told me that it wouldn't be possible for her to not feel anything more for him either in terms of desire - be it physical or emotional. " (Post 111) And she added "She said that it's not that this isn't going to change things between us and she admitted that when I first came to her with my desires, that she too feared changing how she felt about me - but again she's said that now almost 2 years since my beta admission to her - that she's accepted that she enjoys sex very much and even more with Paul than with me and she used the word "compartmentalized" (which I know she got somewhere off the web) when she said how she's separated her sexual desire from me now. She made it clear that this is something she feels right now and she even joked in a cold way that she gets wet for Paul now but that it takes a lot for her to feel herself get wet for me sexually."
But dear, let us have a quick look at facts:
1. Here is what you said - "I will say that some of what she said and how she said it does scare me a little bit, not in the way you might think but more in the sense of wondering if I've created a bit of a monster here." You are scared, only you are not letting yourself know. Not only that you are wondering if you have created a monster. I know that you have not. But when you think like that, don't you feel that you are exactly thinking what I am, even if it's for a moment only. Rest of the time, you are drowned in self made world of arousal and angst.
2. She said that "if it doesn't work for us, then we won't do it" She has said that before and not listened to you. We all remember what happened a few months ago. And in your own words - " I will say that she's said several times that "if it's not working then we can change it" but at the same time I think I know that I'm not really being given a choice of yes or no but rather being asked "when". So please go into this open eyed. If you can't accept the reality - you will soon be challenging it. And I remember even squirm suggesting some rules and boundaries a few months ago. Squirm, how can you forget that? Don't you have some advice for STB?
3. Before she moved on in the conversation she giggled and said "It's going to be fun when you're ready baby, I think you're going to love it". Really? For how long? And I wonder if it is about you or is it about her and Paul. As you say later - I asked her if this was anything to do with Paul. She said that she did feel it was going to enhance things between them as she was going to tell him what we were doing and she said that she was sure he would find it something hot too. If things are going to enhance between her and Paul - they are going to decline between you and Sue.
4.She did start to talk about that feeling of being obligated again and she was honest and said that it wasn't like the last time when she felt she needed to break free of this feeling of being obligated, but that in some ways it did feel the same. Wow ..how many times did she oblige you during past two years? How anything is going to cure this strange obsession of hers? What if tomorrow she says that She has that feeling of being obligated by coming home to you...then what ? Are you going to acquiesce to her demands then also as Manon has suggested? What next? Instead of feeling that way she should have been grateful for what you have and sill are agreeing to. But then...as she said -"well, beta.... it's not really your choice, it's something I'd like you to agree to though".
5. Squirm, do you really think this is how the communication should be between a Cuckoldress and a cuckold ? If yes, then I have nothing to add. Don't let this wreck what you have STB. Think with saner mind. And as you put it "We were being a bit casual with something that had, at least I felt, this much meaning and significance". So while you attach meaning and significance to it, Sue doesn't. Remember your words - "Based on the most recent incident, it truly appears that there had not been truly open, detailed and honest communication about their respective desires and what the over expectations were by both Steve and Sue which in turn lead to miss-understanding by each of them. Sue had seemingly moved forward in treating the extended adventures as more of the norm, making this part of a lifestyle choice while it would appear that Steve was not quite on the same page with Sue." (Post 150)
6. Also remember Squirm -when you posted this - "Rak as to your question, this would really get down to what Steve truly considers displeasure and how offended was he by Sue changing up the plans for this weekend. Sue may have been understand the impression as the alpha within the relationship that she had the ability/right to be able to make adjustments or changes to the weekend schedule without consulting Steve in advance. We all need to remember that Steve did in his own way request this relationship dynamic in the bedroom although the more alpha Sue becomes sexually, the more her confident dominate side will begin to show outside of the bedroom, outside of the sexual side of the relationship. This is something that I have a feeling that Steve has not expected to happen. I have always said that no matter the couple, no matter the relationship model, a couple should always have honest and open communication" (Post 95)
6. And when I nodded she held my hands and said again how she feels its incredibly romantic what I've already been doing and she said "it's just more of that honey, it doesn't mean anything about you....". And she looked at me again and asked me how I felt as a beta. Is it really romantic? And if we all remember her words just a few months ago, she had said this - She told me that it was hard to not want him more and she admitted again that she sex with him is better than with me right now. She insists that "it's just what we're doing" and in that she said that if I didn't want to be the beta-guy for her, that it would be different. But she also added that she knows this has been good for me and that she knows it makes me feel fulfilled somehow sexually (paraphrasing what she took ages to say) and that she is okay with this if I am.
And finally remember what you promised to each other - She's said that she is going to reduce/limit her time with Paul until we get ourselves into a better rhythm - and yes she knows that will mean that periodically - perhaps once a month or longer, perhaps 2 as Raks suggested, that we will take time to focus on each other's pleasure directly instead of indirectly. So yes, a weekend away filled with passion between just us is much of what we agreed to.
There are many thread on this forum and in some, people are doing things much more extreme than what you are planning to. The problem is that - this is not the STB that we know and this is not certainly that Sue that we know. And, that's why I am requesting you to please reconsider. Please remind her what she has said a few weeks earlier - "After cumming in her we talked a lot and she felt that it was good that I understood that she still was going to control when and how we had sex - and she's said that I am not done using condoms - but she also said that, especially after feeling me in her bare, that it wasn't something she wanted to do without - at least not on a longer-term basis" (Post 220). And here she is, doing exactly the opposite. Also remind yourself as to what you said - "I do still love her fucking Paul though - and that is something that isn't likely to change. But I'll also admit, it felt awesome to feel her so naturally and fully again." (Post 220). Not once only, but she has said so explicilty again in Post 223- She asked me how that was going to make me feel, especially after feeling her again and I had to admit that it seemed to arouse me even more now. She said she liked that and again that she would be the one to decide when I will get to have that again with her. But it does seem that "special occasions" as well as "whenever I like" will be the rule of thumb. She actually laughed and said that I might want to not masturbate quite so much because "you never know when". So that is something we will be exploring a bit more with."
STB
Way back earlier in your journey you mentioned that Sue was corresponding with someone online to help her play to your beta or cuckold desires. Do you think her recent admissions and requests are in some way influenced by this person or people.
Is this some master plan to dominate and control you sexually???
Is total penetration denial and masturbation only, her ultimate end game??
Way back earlier in your journey you mentioned that Sue was corresponding with someone online to help her play to your beta or cuckold desires. Do you think her recent admissions and requests are in some way influenced by this person or people.
Is this some master plan to dominate and control you sexually???
Is total penetration denial and masturbation only, her ultimate end game??
- Status
