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She Is His
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Stb, sounds lovely! I couldn’t agree more. I am fortunate that I am more submissive and play that role to both of them. sitting at the end of the bed enjoying the sights, smells and tastes of their sex is what fives me more pleasure than my own release most of the time. I always get to clean up and habe done that for him as well when asked. humiliating but its my role and they enjoy it. keep sharing and enjoy yourself, you should give up pussy all together but tasting it is something that inwould never give up!
Steve,
I have to say that you have some very informational post over the last few weeks. I have refrained from posting to much on the thread as many seem to believe that their respective approach to the lifestyle is the only approach. Through your years posting with the inclusion of Paul within your relationship with Sue I have made remarks which were supportive of your exploration of the more beta side of this lifestyle, and believed that now you have accepted your own beta feelings and expressed your desire for Sue to seek out her sexual pleasure with Paul that you would continue down the beta path until you reached what many of us would consider the point of no return. Sue had provided you many opportunities, a safety net of sorts with a way to reclaim her although it would seem that you may have reached that point were Sue truly does see, feel, and supports your need to be beta at this point within your life. As noted, you being beta has allowed her to be more herself as well at this point in her life, you both are able to reach another level, another chapter within your marriage.
So in a recent post you mentioned "I'm just tired of defending how I'm/we're feeling about everything and all of that."; many of us can truly understand how you have felt about being judged by others on the forum. So many men have more of the so-called 'stag' approach and have no understand what it means and what it takes to willingly and so openly follow the path of being beta and embracing that same path.
I wish you the best of luck on your path and I would suggest that you start a blog as it would allow you to express yourself without feelings as if you have to defend yourself.
SS
I have to say that you have some very informational post over the last few weeks. I have refrained from posting to much on the thread as many seem to believe that their respective approach to the lifestyle is the only approach. Through your years posting with the inclusion of Paul within your relationship with Sue I have made remarks which were supportive of your exploration of the more beta side of this lifestyle, and believed that now you have accepted your own beta feelings and expressed your desire for Sue to seek out her sexual pleasure with Paul that you would continue down the beta path until you reached what many of us would consider the point of no return. Sue had provided you many opportunities, a safety net of sorts with a way to reclaim her although it would seem that you may have reached that point were Sue truly does see, feel, and supports your need to be beta at this point within your life. As noted, you being beta has allowed her to be more herself as well at this point in her life, you both are able to reach another level, another chapter within your marriage.
So in a recent post you mentioned "I'm just tired of defending how I'm/we're feeling about everything and all of that."; many of us can truly understand how you have felt about being judged by others on the forum. So many men have more of the so-called 'stag' approach and have no understand what it means and what it takes to willingly and so openly follow the path of being beta and embracing that same path.
I wish you the best of luck on your path and I would suggest that you start a blog as it would allow you to express yourself without feelings as if you have to defend yourself.
SS
Steve, I remember a few weeks ago your wife started taking anal from Paul. I told you at the time that it brings a different level of intimacy.
What I am wondering is if she has allowed you to watch her doing the back door act or if she keeps this private from you. If so, she not only wants to keep her ass only for Paul, but that level of intimacy as well.
I am glad things seem to be going well and you are happy with how things are progressing, just curious if you are let in on their most intimate acts. I have had wifes rim me, and take me anally, but even if the husband knew everything else, kept that just between us.
What I am wondering is if she has allowed you to watch her doing the back door act or if she keeps this private from you. If so, she not only wants to keep her ass only for Paul, but that level of intimacy as well.
I am glad things seem to be going well and you are happy with how things are progressing, just curious if you are let in on their most intimate acts. I have had wifes rim me, and take me anally, but even if the husband knew everything else, kept that just between us.
Magna - before I answer your question I did want to share that this past weekend Sue and I did share some more intimate time ourselves. She seemed perturbed that Paul had been, I guess, quick with her on Friday night and it surprised me that she'd come home late Friday night vs spending the night and coming home Saturday morning - but I didn't pry. She shared more with me on Saturday and said that he had plans for Saturday that left her uncomfortable with having to run off on Saturday morning. It was to my benefit as she was in the mood for me to pleasure her for a change. We talked a bit and she said she was still horny and asked if I wanted to "play with her". She did make it clear that it wasn't a time for me to fuck her and as we'd talked, she knew that wouldn't be an issue as we are fairly in agreement about all of that right now.
It was amazingly erotic to have her help and let me undress her and to give me her body to play with and pleasure. She let me do virtually everything to and with her short of PIV sex. I sucked at her breasts and I loved feeling and hearing her respond and her nipples harden. I hoped and was pleased myself when I moved between her legs and she encouraged me to "really go to it" and she teased me that "it might still taste like Paul" which got me so hard. She told me I should get naked myself and that I could masturbate if I wanted. I agreed that I would be more comfortable with my hardon not being restrained - and she loved seeing me fully hard.
I licked and played with her pussy with my fingers and she really let me do whatever I wanted - I pulled her pussy open with my fingers and I told her I was so horny being so close to where Paul is when he's in her. She giggled and teased me more about his cock in her and whether "it feels stretched out in there" which we both knew was just a tease. I didn't truly know how she'd be once I started to bring her closer to orgasm - but she was very into it and encouraged me to have 2 and then 3 fingers in her. She teased me and told me that she could see my cock leaking pre-cum as I licked at her and tasted her sweet nectar. I brought her to 2 minor orgasms ( as she calls them ) before I really focused on her and truly made her scream and arch her back and thrash about as I edged her over and over until she moaned "oh god, oh god..... keep going baby....." and even then, I made her get more frantic until I curled my fingers inside her and rubbed against her g-spot and I felt her spasm and let go.
Definitely there was a part of me that would have loved to have crawled up and stuck my cock in her - but we both knew that wasn't what either of us wanted. I have to say that kneeling there between her legs - that it was just so wonderful to have her sharing herself with me. But even more so - pleasuring her after it'd been so long since she'd let me - was really awesome. Feeling her breasts and then feeling her pussy was so amazing that it almost scared me and I'd even say I was almost shaking at one point. I will even say that I can see what she had said she'd wanted - for it to feel "new" between us.
Magna - I never believed that she was into anal-sex - I mean after 30 years of marriage it wasn't ever the big thing - and she did have experience with it before me and back in college. I have not seen them having anal sex now in quite a few weeks if not months - but I do believe it does still happen between them. But knowing Sue, I never felt it was what she would want as she has always loved vaginal sex and I doubted she would ever trade "front for back" if she had a choice. I do believe it marked something that she felt would separate Paul from me and would encourage my beta-desires - which she was right about.
I know that even when I'm with them, that I am still not seeing their most intimate moments. I always give them privacy when they're turning in for the night and I know that is usually when Paul will have sex with her again - but that it is more intimate between them and they often will lie together and fall asleep after sex - which I leave them alone for. She giggles at it that I find hearing and knowing about their morning's together to be almost as exciting as sex itself. lol
It was amazingly erotic to have her help and let me undress her and to give me her body to play with and pleasure. She let me do virtually everything to and with her short of PIV sex. I sucked at her breasts and I loved feeling and hearing her respond and her nipples harden. I hoped and was pleased myself when I moved between her legs and she encouraged me to "really go to it" and she teased me that "it might still taste like Paul" which got me so hard. She told me I should get naked myself and that I could masturbate if I wanted. I agreed that I would be more comfortable with my hardon not being restrained - and she loved seeing me fully hard.
I licked and played with her pussy with my fingers and she really let me do whatever I wanted - I pulled her pussy open with my fingers and I told her I was so horny being so close to where Paul is when he's in her. She giggled and teased me more about his cock in her and whether "it feels stretched out in there" which we both knew was just a tease. I didn't truly know how she'd be once I started to bring her closer to orgasm - but she was very into it and encouraged me to have 2 and then 3 fingers in her. She teased me and told me that she could see my cock leaking pre-cum as I licked at her and tasted her sweet nectar. I brought her to 2 minor orgasms ( as she calls them ) before I really focused on her and truly made her scream and arch her back and thrash about as I edged her over and over until she moaned "oh god, oh god..... keep going baby....." and even then, I made her get more frantic until I curled my fingers inside her and rubbed against her g-spot and I felt her spasm and let go.
Definitely there was a part of me that would have loved to have crawled up and stuck my cock in her - but we both knew that wasn't what either of us wanted. I have to say that kneeling there between her legs - that it was just so wonderful to have her sharing herself with me. But even more so - pleasuring her after it'd been so long since she'd let me - was really awesome. Feeling her breasts and then feeling her pussy was so amazing that it almost scared me and I'd even say I was almost shaking at one point. I will even say that I can see what she had said she'd wanted - for it to feel "new" between us.
Magna - I never believed that she was into anal-sex - I mean after 30 years of marriage it wasn't ever the big thing - and she did have experience with it before me and back in college. I have not seen them having anal sex now in quite a few weeks if not months - but I do believe it does still happen between them. But knowing Sue, I never felt it was what she would want as she has always loved vaginal sex and I doubted she would ever trade "front for back" if she had a choice. I do believe it marked something that she felt would separate Paul from me and would encourage my beta-desires - which she was right about.
I know that even when I'm with them, that I am still not seeing their most intimate moments. I always give them privacy when they're turning in for the night and I know that is usually when Paul will have sex with her again - but that it is more intimate between them and they often will lie together and fall asleep after sex - which I leave them alone for. She giggles at it that I find hearing and knowing about their morning's together to be almost as exciting as sex itself. lol
So - I am chatting from time to time on other sites and I suppose I should comment here that there are many others like Peak and those here who are surprised at what we are doing and how I feel about it. And yet, as I explain how I feel, many say they can understand but are surprised that I've both willingly gone along but also encouraged it.
I do see how anyone who's followed me for almost a decade can be surprised by my change-of-life (feeling beta), but what I'd say is that this is perhaps the first time in my life that I feel almost eerily content. These past few weeks, where both Sue and I have come to greater openness and acceptance have been equally satisfying. It has been rewarding to feel that she is supportive of my wanting to explore my feelings and desires and we both agree that it is her relationship with Paul that's led to where we are - where I can feel comfortable with what we are doing and where she has a ready partner who she feels comfortable with. We both share the same thought that my ability to 'trust' her and Paul has let me, perhaps for the first time in my life, to let myself feel sexually satisfied.
That I can be sexually satisfied without intercourse with Sue, and in some ways, really without much if any sexual contact with her has been amazing to experience. The feelings I felt with her last weekend - the amazement and arousal and yes - almost a newness to sex with her - has left us both feeling that this is good for us and is giving us both what we wanted. While I would surely love to have sex with her - I can honestly say that doing without is actually okay. Last night as I masturbated with her we talked a lot about how it's going to feel for me to finally feel her on New Years Day and she's begun to tease me that "it's only 3 1/2 months more" and her holding my balls and telling me that I should look forward to "finally emptying them in me" and then she giggled and added "well, in a condom honey, but still, you'll get to do it".
I've been honest with her (and with myself) that I am still thrilled that she shares (well, you know) her pussy with him as she does and that for all intents and purposes, for this year at least, that I told her "....it still turns me on that your vagina is only for Paul right now...". She paused and turned to me and told me she loved that I could tell her that and feel okay about it and that I should feel okay too. She told me that she feels the same way, and told me again how at 56 years old she's never felt sexier or more alive - or - more horny. I told her that I could tell and that I loved that she could feel this way. And I guess that was what got us to talk a bit more. She said that she feels the same as I do, that it's exciting for her in really new ways to let herself feel that she is Pauls sexually and that she likes how it feels between us knowing that I am as turned on as she is. I told her that I feel I live somwhate vicariously through her and she smiled and said that she likes sharing it with me enough that I can feel close enough to her to enjoy it that way. She blushed a little as she said that it's felt good to simply be more open with me and she commented that my actions have helped "you jerking while we are into it baby..... I know you feel good doing it....".
I had stopped masturbating by this time and sat up as we talked. She told me that once she knew that I wanted her to, that she said she said she realized how I was feeling and how almost all of a sudden, she realized again how together we are (I'll use the word symbiotic) about this. And she said that just as I am now feeling how it feels to accept that this turns us on and to just let it happen and yes, enjoy it, that she said that she began to feel this a while back with Paul and she looked at me and said that as I started to feel more at ease earlier this year, she thought I'd come to the same point with myself. And she was right. I started to talk about New Years and she giggled and put her finger to my mouth and shushed me and said "I know all that baby, but for right now, what we need to talk about is this" and she reached out and took hold of my cock. And she mentioned me stroking my cock again "you know.... when you're with us..." and how she liked seeing me and she giggled at how "... I don't always see you cum baby...." but that she knows I do.
Needless to say - once she started to tease me again about how she "....liked hearing you say that my pussy.... my vagina.... is for Paul...". The moan I let out left no doubt. Nor did my explosion of semen not long after that as she continued to prod at "you'll have it again in a few months baby.... until then though..... it's just Paul's honey.....". Feeling her hands gently coaxing out the last of my cum was nothing short of what I will call beta-heaven right now.
I do see how anyone who's followed me for almost a decade can be surprised by my change-of-life (feeling beta), but what I'd say is that this is perhaps the first time in my life that I feel almost eerily content. These past few weeks, where both Sue and I have come to greater openness and acceptance have been equally satisfying. It has been rewarding to feel that she is supportive of my wanting to explore my feelings and desires and we both agree that it is her relationship with Paul that's led to where we are - where I can feel comfortable with what we are doing and where she has a ready partner who she feels comfortable with. We both share the same thought that my ability to 'trust' her and Paul has let me, perhaps for the first time in my life, to let myself feel sexually satisfied.
That I can be sexually satisfied without intercourse with Sue, and in some ways, really without much if any sexual contact with her has been amazing to experience. The feelings I felt with her last weekend - the amazement and arousal and yes - almost a newness to sex with her - has left us both feeling that this is good for us and is giving us both what we wanted. While I would surely love to have sex with her - I can honestly say that doing without is actually okay. Last night as I masturbated with her we talked a lot about how it's going to feel for me to finally feel her on New Years Day and she's begun to tease me that "it's only 3 1/2 months more" and her holding my balls and telling me that I should look forward to "finally emptying them in me" and then she giggled and added "well, in a condom honey, but still, you'll get to do it".
I've been honest with her (and with myself) that I am still thrilled that she shares (well, you know) her pussy with him as she does and that for all intents and purposes, for this year at least, that I told her "....it still turns me on that your vagina is only for Paul right now...". She paused and turned to me and told me she loved that I could tell her that and feel okay about it and that I should feel okay too. She told me that she feels the same way, and told me again how at 56 years old she's never felt sexier or more alive - or - more horny. I told her that I could tell and that I loved that she could feel this way. And I guess that was what got us to talk a bit more. She said that she feels the same as I do, that it's exciting for her in really new ways to let herself feel that she is Pauls sexually and that she likes how it feels between us knowing that I am as turned on as she is. I told her that I feel I live somwhate vicariously through her and she smiled and said that she likes sharing it with me enough that I can feel close enough to her to enjoy it that way. She blushed a little as she said that it's felt good to simply be more open with me and she commented that my actions have helped "you jerking while we are into it baby..... I know you feel good doing it....".
I had stopped masturbating by this time and sat up as we talked. She told me that once she knew that I wanted her to, that she said she said she realized how I was feeling and how almost all of a sudden, she realized again how together we are (I'll use the word symbiotic) about this. And she said that just as I am now feeling how it feels to accept that this turns us on and to just let it happen and yes, enjoy it, that she said that she began to feel this a while back with Paul and she looked at me and said that as I started to feel more at ease earlier this year, she thought I'd come to the same point with myself. And she was right. I started to talk about New Years and she giggled and put her finger to my mouth and shushed me and said "I know all that baby, but for right now, what we need to talk about is this" and she reached out and took hold of my cock. And she mentioned me stroking my cock again "you know.... when you're with us..." and how she liked seeing me and she giggled at how "... I don't always see you cum baby...." but that she knows I do.
Needless to say - once she started to tease me again about how she "....liked hearing you say that my pussy.... my vagina.... is for Paul...". The moan I let out left no doubt. Nor did my explosion of semen not long after that as she continued to prod at "you'll have it again in a few months baby.... until then though..... it's just Paul's honey.....". Feeling her hands gently coaxing out the last of my cum was nothing short of what I will call beta-heaven right now.
Steve,
You mentioned recently how much has changed over the last ten years, and as one who has largely supported your journey for much of that time, I can see how much your recent change has affected many. I stress your recent change because looking back I don’t think that Sue has ‘evolved’ as much. Right from the start she has been the one to pick her lovers. As soon as you started to express your excitement at the thought of her being with someone else she was right in there. Slowly at first but with ever increasing depth of commitment, feeling and pussy time with each year. With every extension of her power, from time spent away from home, to bareback with them, to you not seeing her with them, and now with Paul and the start of condoms for you and then the gradual easing out of your cock in her pussy, Sue has asked you at every stage to stop her if you wanted to. In all that time I can think of no time at all that you did so. A few petulant toys out of the pram moments, but nothing at all sustained. It should be said that Sue gave you repeated chances to stay as an equal lover (not an alpha), by reversing her rules and swapping lovers. Some of those lovers left for their own reasons, some were rejected by Sue. None ever left because you objected. The signs of your latent beta nature have been hiding in plain sight for an awful long time.
Which brings us right up to where we are now. Sue started this year saying that before it ended that you would be back in her pussy and that Paul would be gone. I believe she thought that total denial would finally crack your resolve and that something of the equal lover she married would emerge enough for her to recommit and drop Paul. I’m certain that she would have found someone else after reestablishing your sexual relationship but I believe she still believed it could be reestablished a year ago. It seems that Sue has finally given up on any sort of reestablishing it now, and she has recommitted herself to Paul. That side of her sexual life is decidedly not broken and she sees no reason to fix it. Paul is staying unless he blows it (and he might). With you though, she seems to have given up. At one point she may have felt some guilt or concern that prevented her from showing you just much she enjoyed her lovers. Not now. Every time she supervises your weekly masturbation session with her she shows her glee that you have moved as you have and that she has the freedom she has. She has moved away from fucking you as much as you have from her. You believe those two moves are in some sense equal and happily coincidental. They are not. Your desire for denial and the deep feelings of angst it engenders have largely blinded you to the stark rejection of your cock Sue now has. The truth is she longer needs it, no longer desires it and no longer needs to hide it. She freely admits that her highest pleasures being fucked always come from bareback activity, yet you have not experienced this with her in any regular way for over two years. If Sue had really wanted to experience any supreme pleasure with you over that time, if she had truly wanted to feel your cock in her, to have you making love with her in that time, she would have engineered it to happen. Like all the other evolutions, you would not have objected. Sue didn’t do that, and appears to have no intention of now ever doing so again. Her offer of some pussy time over new year is as meaningless as a few drops of rain falling in a desert. A mercy fuck, or perhaps even her own curiosity after all this time, but in no sense a return to any previous ‘normality’. Life has changed for you Steve, and even SS believes it isn’t changing back. You continue to phrase your narrative from time to time as if it still some sort of experiment that can be reversed, but it has now gone too far, you have both bared your feelings on the issue and your reality is set to stay as it is. I just think you need to finally accept it.
You mentioned recently how much has changed over the last ten years, and as one who has largely supported your journey for much of that time, I can see how much your recent change has affected many. I stress your recent change because looking back I don’t think that Sue has ‘evolved’ as much. Right from the start she has been the one to pick her lovers. As soon as you started to express your excitement at the thought of her being with someone else she was right in there. Slowly at first but with ever increasing depth of commitment, feeling and pussy time with each year. With every extension of her power, from time spent away from home, to bareback with them, to you not seeing her with them, and now with Paul and the start of condoms for you and then the gradual easing out of your cock in her pussy, Sue has asked you at every stage to stop her if you wanted to. In all that time I can think of no time at all that you did so. A few petulant toys out of the pram moments, but nothing at all sustained. It should be said that Sue gave you repeated chances to stay as an equal lover (not an alpha), by reversing her rules and swapping lovers. Some of those lovers left for their own reasons, some were rejected by Sue. None ever left because you objected. The signs of your latent beta nature have been hiding in plain sight for an awful long time.
Which brings us right up to where we are now. Sue started this year saying that before it ended that you would be back in her pussy and that Paul would be gone. I believe she thought that total denial would finally crack your resolve and that something of the equal lover she married would emerge enough for her to recommit and drop Paul. I’m certain that she would have found someone else after reestablishing your sexual relationship but I believe she still believed it could be reestablished a year ago. It seems that Sue has finally given up on any sort of reestablishing it now, and she has recommitted herself to Paul. That side of her sexual life is decidedly not broken and she sees no reason to fix it. Paul is staying unless he blows it (and he might). With you though, she seems to have given up. At one point she may have felt some guilt or concern that prevented her from showing you just much she enjoyed her lovers. Not now. Every time she supervises your weekly masturbation session with her she shows her glee that you have moved as you have and that she has the freedom she has. She has moved away from fucking you as much as you have from her. You believe those two moves are in some sense equal and happily coincidental. They are not. Your desire for denial and the deep feelings of angst it engenders have largely blinded you to the stark rejection of your cock Sue now has. The truth is she longer needs it, no longer desires it and no longer needs to hide it. She freely admits that her highest pleasures being fucked always come from bareback activity, yet you have not experienced this with her in any regular way for over two years. If Sue had really wanted to experience any supreme pleasure with you over that time, if she had truly wanted to feel your cock in her, to have you making love with her in that time, she would have engineered it to happen. Like all the other evolutions, you would not have objected. Sue didn’t do that, and appears to have no intention of now ever doing so again. Her offer of some pussy time over new year is as meaningless as a few drops of rain falling in a desert. A mercy fuck, or perhaps even her own curiosity after all this time, but in no sense a return to any previous ‘normality’. Life has changed for you Steve, and even SS believes it isn’t changing back. You continue to phrase your narrative from time to time as if it still some sort of experiment that can be reversed, but it has now gone too far, you have both bared your feelings on the issue and your reality is set to stay as it is. I just think you need to finally accept it.
I'll take a few moments to answer your thoughts Peak.
Yes, we are past the point where our relationship could go back to 'normal'. I accept that - in fact, as we've talked more and more openly about it, in many ways it feels good to accept that this is what we both want for right now. I know it sounds crazy but as I've been sharing - to many's chagrin here - but the more we share and talk about our feelings, the more I seem to want to feel this continuing. And yes, the more she does too. But you feel that our plan to re-unite on New Years is some kind of fake thing when what I feel from Sue on this is that she too would like to fulfill our goal for 2018 and to truly see how it feels to continue in somewhat abstinence.
I think you all feel this is the end of things whereas I can honestly say that neither I nor Sue feels that way. Yes, it may mark a change to our sexuality that we may never revert back from - I can only share how I am feeling and after seeing them together this past Friday night, I can say that I am still intoxicated with - yes - him fucking the shit out of her. But I think you are wrong about her feelings about me and whether she would want me sexually - and unfortunately, you seem fixated on this not being possible which, as I said, differs with how I am sure we both feel.
It does feel odd, strange and even sad that I feel this way about sex right now - but at the same time - the way we talk and are with and feel about each other cannot be denied either. I honestly do not feel I could feel this way if I didn't have the deep seated feelings and trust and love that I am sure Sue and I share.
Peak - I only have to ask you is how you feel other marriages and relationships survive when one or the other partner is no longer able to perform sexually. It would seem that you and others here can't see that things can change and even grow despite reducing sex?
Yes, we are past the point where our relationship could go back to 'normal'. I accept that - in fact, as we've talked more and more openly about it, in many ways it feels good to accept that this is what we both want for right now. I know it sounds crazy but as I've been sharing - to many's chagrin here - but the more we share and talk about our feelings, the more I seem to want to feel this continuing. And yes, the more she does too. But you feel that our plan to re-unite on New Years is some kind of fake thing when what I feel from Sue on this is that she too would like to fulfill our goal for 2018 and to truly see how it feels to continue in somewhat abstinence.
I think you all feel this is the end of things whereas I can honestly say that neither I nor Sue feels that way. Yes, it may mark a change to our sexuality that we may never revert back from - I can only share how I am feeling and after seeing them together this past Friday night, I can say that I am still intoxicated with - yes - him fucking the shit out of her. But I think you are wrong about her feelings about me and whether she would want me sexually - and unfortunately, you seem fixated on this not being possible which, as I said, differs with how I am sure we both feel.
It does feel odd, strange and even sad that I feel this way about sex right now - but at the same time - the way we talk and are with and feel about each other cannot be denied either. I honestly do not feel I could feel this way if I didn't have the deep seated feelings and trust and love that I am sure Sue and I share.
Peak - I only have to ask you is how you feel other marriages and relationships survive when one or the other partner is no longer able to perform sexually. It would seem that you and others here can't see that things can change and even grow despite reducing sex?
Peak is right. Earlier also you have said that this wouldn't ever happen - but we foresaw it. He is foreseeing it now and right now you are denying it, but he will be proved right, just like others have been proven right. It is a different thing when a doctor says that you're diabetic and can't eat sugar anymore, but it's a different issue when someone else say's that you can't eat Sugar anymore because you've eaten too much before...and you agree that right now you don't enjoy eating sugar. All Peak is saying that this will lead the other person to believe that you don't want to anymore (and he is not wrong because you said so)...So its kind of difficult for us to see a future of sexual reconnection...ever. You don't want it. Neither does Sue. So how it is going to happen? (It's not that we want or don't want...it's just that you have been saying things which are contrary to your own statements which you made not so long ago) Forgive me for not being able to see what you are seeing, because we had envisaged this earlier while you continued to deny it. But this did happen na? What are the odds that the same will happen again. More than fair..you bet.
Steve,
I thank you for your prompt reply. This thread works so much better when issues are debated in good time even if it wasn’t your intention to be doing so at this stage of the year. I do think even you though must appreciate that your recent posts have created both a change and a finality of sorts to your narrative.
I’ve noticed before that you sometimes have a politician’s habit of seemingly misinterpreting something then answering the wrong question. It seems your way of avoiding what you might not want to talk about but at the same time can’t really avoid. So let me just deal with the points you made.
Firstly, I didn’t say where you are is the end of things. It may be pretty much the end of your PIV sex life but that is not news, only a continuation of the status quo and perhaps as you say the start of a new different chapter in your lives together. There are clearly risks in this, but they exist whatever you do together and you are both clearly okay with where you are and seemingly going so there is no reason at present to be alarmed or concerned. You clearly love your current life with Sue, and Sue must clearly love you or she would have left by now. You don’t have to change back to be happy together, which is a good job because it is now almost impossible to change back.
I didn’t try to say that your PIV activity planned for New Year is fake. I was maybe strong in saying it didn’t mean much in the long term but I did not intend to belittle it. Quite the reverse, I’m sure it will be active, enjoyable, bitter sweet afterwards and that both of you will get all you imagine you want out of it. To the extent that your narrative afterwards will start afresh all the questions around, “Well if it was so good, why would prefer your supervised masturbation every week when you could be doing that instead.” No matter. What I will say is that as a sexual activity, it will not be Sue’s best sex, best orgasms or best overall sexual experience of the last 12 months. Although it will of course be yours. That is why - for Sue, it will be a less enduring memory as next year rolls on. As ever, I remain intrigued by how your memory of it will stick or fade.
You say again I am wrong about Sue’s sexual feelings for you. As I say above, I am certain that Sue is looking forward to making love with you at New Year. I am certain that she will love the closeness that your night(s) will create. But as we say in the UK, you can’t have the penny and the bun. Sue is now your Alpha. She gets sexually what she wants, when she wants pretty much. It has been her decision for instance not to routinely see Paul during the week. It is her decision to not sexually (PIV) engage with you. If she wanted to, if she got so much out of it that she needed to, she would find a way to make it happen. If she needed to make love, she would do it. 2018 has shown you and us that she doesn’t want to. However you dress this up with desire for denial, with her wanting an exclusive feeling with Paul, the fact remains that Sue doesn’t want PIV sex with you, let alone the bareback sex that we all know she regards as being the best and closest experience (and which she is still denying herself and you at New Year).
You asked me directly about how couples cope when one becomes incapable of sex. I think Raks did a good job of answering that. I too don’t regard it as the same as desiring to disengage. The feeling of rejection in the opposite party would in most cases put severe stress on the relationship. In cases where incapability was there though, I do think that cuckolding could be a solution where clear boundaries and understanding are present. The sex may be more enjoyable physical therapy than making love, but I’m sure that in a truly loving relationship the non performing partner would get joy is seeing (or hearing about) their active partner being fulfilled. Don’t kid yourself though, you are not in this incapable category.
I thank you for your prompt reply. This thread works so much better when issues are debated in good time even if it wasn’t your intention to be doing so at this stage of the year. I do think even you though must appreciate that your recent posts have created both a change and a finality of sorts to your narrative.
I’ve noticed before that you sometimes have a politician’s habit of seemingly misinterpreting something then answering the wrong question. It seems your way of avoiding what you might not want to talk about but at the same time can’t really avoid. So let me just deal with the points you made.
Firstly, I didn’t say where you are is the end of things. It may be pretty much the end of your PIV sex life but that is not news, only a continuation of the status quo and perhaps as you say the start of a new different chapter in your lives together. There are clearly risks in this, but they exist whatever you do together and you are both clearly okay with where you are and seemingly going so there is no reason at present to be alarmed or concerned. You clearly love your current life with Sue, and Sue must clearly love you or she would have left by now. You don’t have to change back to be happy together, which is a good job because it is now almost impossible to change back.
I didn’t try to say that your PIV activity planned for New Year is fake. I was maybe strong in saying it didn’t mean much in the long term but I did not intend to belittle it. Quite the reverse, I’m sure it will be active, enjoyable, bitter sweet afterwards and that both of you will get all you imagine you want out of it. To the extent that your narrative afterwards will start afresh all the questions around, “Well if it was so good, why would prefer your supervised masturbation every week when you could be doing that instead.” No matter. What I will say is that as a sexual activity, it will not be Sue’s best sex, best orgasms or best overall sexual experience of the last 12 months. Although it will of course be yours. That is why - for Sue, it will be a less enduring memory as next year rolls on. As ever, I remain intrigued by how your memory of it will stick or fade.
You say again I am wrong about Sue’s sexual feelings for you. As I say above, I am certain that Sue is looking forward to making love with you at New Year. I am certain that she will love the closeness that your night(s) will create. But as we say in the UK, you can’t have the penny and the bun. Sue is now your Alpha. She gets sexually what she wants, when she wants pretty much. It has been her decision for instance not to routinely see Paul during the week. It is her decision to not sexually (PIV) engage with you. If she wanted to, if she got so much out of it that she needed to, she would find a way to make it happen. If she needed to make love, she would do it. 2018 has shown you and us that she doesn’t want to. However you dress this up with desire for denial, with her wanting an exclusive feeling with Paul, the fact remains that Sue doesn’t want PIV sex with you, let alone the bareback sex that we all know she regards as being the best and closest experience (and which she is still denying herself and you at New Year).
You asked me directly about how couples cope when one becomes incapable of sex. I think Raks did a good job of answering that. I too don’t regard it as the same as desiring to disengage. The feeling of rejection in the opposite party would in most cases put severe stress on the relationship. In cases where incapability was there though, I do think that cuckolding could be a solution where clear boundaries and understanding are present. The sex may be more enjoyable physical therapy than making love, but I’m sure that in a truly loving relationship the non performing partner would get joy is seeing (or hearing about) their active partner being fulfilled. Don’t kid yourself though, you are not in this incapable category.
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I just don't know how anyone or couple can go back to "normal" from being so far into the beta/slut roles. I don't know how that identity doesn't stick in either or both people perceptions.
but I wish you well and am glad that you seem to be able to adapt either way.
But tbh I expect the New years change to be a temporary one before reverting to the "new normal". perhaps with fewer restrictions than currently, which I think is all you need to be happy.
but I wish you well and am glad that you seem to be able to adapt either way.
But tbh I expect the New years change to be a temporary one before reverting to the "new normal". perhaps with fewer restrictions than currently, which I think is all you need to be happy.
Simply amazing....
Such as how so many can not accept that relationships of all types evolve over time. Steve and Sue have come a long way during their marriage and Steve has openly shared the last 10 years with many here and at times on other online venues.
Why is it that some feel that they must pass judgment on how Steve and his relationship with Sue has evolved respectively? No answer required, I just find it odd that it has been that way. Steve should not have to justify to those of us here why he has chosen this path or why he feels the way he does. Couples within strong well connected relationships can evolve to the point were traditional PIV is not required for the relationship to move forward with intimacy at many levels within the marriage.
Steve, I wish you and Sue well in your continued evolution and journeys that follow.
SS
Such as how so many can not accept that relationships of all types evolve over time. Steve and Sue have come a long way during their marriage and Steve has openly shared the last 10 years with many here and at times on other online venues.
Why is it that some feel that they must pass judgment on how Steve and his relationship with Sue has evolved respectively? No answer required, I just find it odd that it has been that way. Steve should not have to justify to those of us here why he has chosen this path or why he feels the way he does. Couples within strong well connected relationships can evolve to the point were traditional PIV is not required for the relationship to move forward with intimacy at many levels within the marriage.
Steve, I wish you and Sue well in your continued evolution and journeys that follow.
SS
SS,
It seems that Steve is making good on his desire to post less to the forum. I'm sure his views in doing so are complex after all this time. I'm equally sure that some will use them as an excuse to bash the posters who question him. Although you are too polite to name names, I am equally sure that my name would appear on that list by those wishing to make that assertion. Let me get a little retaliation in first.
Just to get it out there again, I have been deliberately careful over the last year or so to preface most of what I say with the simple comment that if Steve sees his current position as a new permanent state or even one he is passing through to another of similar sexual connection, then I would be happy for him. I still believe this. I have some questions around how he can have switched his fundamental views - indeed values, so much in what is a short time at his age, but if we accept that he has then we have to accept that if he stays here or hereabouts then your assertion above that this is all an evolution which has brought him to this new enlightened and PIV sex free state is fine. I would even agree with you. Let's stop the questions, let's even stop the comments because it is not going to create quite so many going forward once everyone understands this is now forever.
However, Steve is not saying this or at least not without hedging his bets a little. He still uses 'for now' or 'for the next few months' as a way of saying it may end. He reports also that Sue comments that he may return in some way, that she may 'rediscover' him when Paul finally departs the scene. The issue of Paul departing remains open. For every moment he has been around Sue is reported to have said he has only been expected to stay for 'a few months more' at no point has this ever exceeded a year. Yet he stays. We can only conclude that Sue lies or that Sue isn't in control of the agenda. Yet in all other aspects she appears to be.
The issue that continues to exercise my posts is just what happens in the future. I don't think the two of them can plan around Paul being there for another (say) five years. When he goes, the cement that holds the current balance together goes with him. Steve does indeed seem blissfully happy with his current set up. He gets as many orgasms as he wants, he enjoys having a wife deliver his own personal porn show, and he even gets off on Sue teasing him about what he doesn't get anymore. It seems he could continue a long time in this zone. Sue it seems could also continue for some time, but I suspect oddly not as long. Sue as reported remains an intensely sexual woman. She sees this as a vital part of her being. She must feel some pull that the sexual connection with her husband has been broken in some way, and she states her desire to rebuild it in some way in the future.
Therein lies my issue. The current balance cannot be maintained without Paul. Paul will not be around forever. The longer Sue sees Steve as a sexless undesirable being (or at least someone she does not lust after), the harder it will be for her to re-forge any sort of PIV connection. I do not believe the Sue we have read about now for ten years could go forward without PIV sex, and lovers like Paul do not grow on trees. The transition to a new lover could be extended and fraught with its own dangers of compromise and compatibility. It remains a distinct possibility that Sue could discover sex AND love the next time around.
So, what to do SS. Do I (and others who question) sit back and say nothing, or do I continue to question how Steve and Sue negotiate their future?
The biggest question of all to me is, why the hell do I care? I can only say that for now, like Sue, I do.
It seems that Steve is making good on his desire to post less to the forum. I'm sure his views in doing so are complex after all this time. I'm equally sure that some will use them as an excuse to bash the posters who question him. Although you are too polite to name names, I am equally sure that my name would appear on that list by those wishing to make that assertion. Let me get a little retaliation in first.
Just to get it out there again, I have been deliberately careful over the last year or so to preface most of what I say with the simple comment that if Steve sees his current position as a new permanent state or even one he is passing through to another of similar sexual connection, then I would be happy for him. I still believe this. I have some questions around how he can have switched his fundamental views - indeed values, so much in what is a short time at his age, but if we accept that he has then we have to accept that if he stays here or hereabouts then your assertion above that this is all an evolution which has brought him to this new enlightened and PIV sex free state is fine. I would even agree with you. Let's stop the questions, let's even stop the comments because it is not going to create quite so many going forward once everyone understands this is now forever.
However, Steve is not saying this or at least not without hedging his bets a little. He still uses 'for now' or 'for the next few months' as a way of saying it may end. He reports also that Sue comments that he may return in some way, that she may 'rediscover' him when Paul finally departs the scene. The issue of Paul departing remains open. For every moment he has been around Sue is reported to have said he has only been expected to stay for 'a few months more' at no point has this ever exceeded a year. Yet he stays. We can only conclude that Sue lies or that Sue isn't in control of the agenda. Yet in all other aspects she appears to be.
The issue that continues to exercise my posts is just what happens in the future. I don't think the two of them can plan around Paul being there for another (say) five years. When he goes, the cement that holds the current balance together goes with him. Steve does indeed seem blissfully happy with his current set up. He gets as many orgasms as he wants, he enjoys having a wife deliver his own personal porn show, and he even gets off on Sue teasing him about what he doesn't get anymore. It seems he could continue a long time in this zone. Sue it seems could also continue for some time, but I suspect oddly not as long. Sue as reported remains an intensely sexual woman. She sees this as a vital part of her being. She must feel some pull that the sexual connection with her husband has been broken in some way, and she states her desire to rebuild it in some way in the future.
Therein lies my issue. The current balance cannot be maintained without Paul. Paul will not be around forever. The longer Sue sees Steve as a sexless undesirable being (or at least someone she does not lust after), the harder it will be for her to re-forge any sort of PIV connection. I do not believe the Sue we have read about now for ten years could go forward without PIV sex, and lovers like Paul do not grow on trees. The transition to a new lover could be extended and fraught with its own dangers of compromise and compatibility. It remains a distinct possibility that Sue could discover sex AND love the next time around.
So, what to do SS. Do I (and others who question) sit back and say nothing, or do I continue to question how Steve and Sue negotiate their future?
The biggest question of all to me is, why the hell do I care? I can only say that for now, like Sue, I do.
Peak - haven't read your last 2 missives. Sorry, tired of being psycho-analyzed and picked apart here at sharing my thoughts and having you all tell me that it's not good or whatever.
As I've, finally, become very comfortable with myself and with things between Sue and I, I have found less "need" to write here for whatever support or other input I felt I needed in the past.
I'd likely have kept sharing here - but now, I have to ask myself why.. Why should I feel I have to defend myself or what we're doing - or have to hear the constant barrage of "that's not good" or "you're not listening to what your wife is really saying".
I will say this was quite a source of comfort and guidance for me for a long time, posting here, but now - sorry - as I said, continuing to put me in a position to defend what we are doing is no longer of use to me.
As I've, finally, become very comfortable with myself and with things between Sue and I, I have found less "need" to write here for whatever support or other input I felt I needed in the past.
I'd likely have kept sharing here - but now, I have to ask myself why.. Why should I feel I have to defend myself or what we're doing - or have to hear the constant barrage of "that's not good" or "you're not listening to what your wife is really saying".
I will say this was quite a source of comfort and guidance for me for a long time, posting here, but now - sorry - as I said, continuing to put me in a position to defend what we are doing is no longer of use to me.
Steve, that was unnecessary. So after 10 years and countless flames far worse than that as well as thousands of supporting notes (hundreds from me alone), finally it ends and it's all my fault. I don't think so. That just doesn't ring true to me.
Whatever, I hope your state continues to bring you what you want for as long as it lasts. As such it is good that you either stop or reduce substantially your posts. You stopped real dialog soon after your magic switch late last year and events are now flatlining for you. I can imagine it is getting difficult to say something new.
I still suspect things will get tougher in the future. I don't wish that on you. Not at all, but I do believe it will happen. If it does I hope you will return and find the support here that may help you a little.
Till then, Au Revoir.
Whatever, I hope your state continues to bring you what you want for as long as it lasts. As such it is good that you either stop or reduce substantially your posts. You stopped real dialog soon after your magic switch late last year and events are now flatlining for you. I can imagine it is getting difficult to say something new.
I still suspect things will get tougher in the future. I don't wish that on you. Not at all, but I do believe it will happen. If it does I hope you will return and find the support here that may help you a little.
Till then, Au Revoir.
- Status
