I thought this was a good place to start a new thread - we had some pretty open and frank discussions yesterday and, well, things are still developing....
The first that I'll share is something that I suppose I should have known already or at least assumed was going to be. It was a bit humbling to hear, but Sue came out and said that, especially after her time with Robert, that at times I am not up to the sexual peak I used to be in the past. She said that in some ways she had thought my own awareness of this was somewhat behind my more recent admission of wanting to be a beta-male for her. She said that sex between us is still great/awesome and that the last week surely proved/supported that, but more that she simply said that - putting it bluntly - Robert fucked her better than I did at times. She made it clear that it's more of a consistency thing with me - that many times I was equal or better than Robert, but that at other times, well, it either just wasn't as hard or wasn't as hard for as long, etc. And she did say that she had been spoiled a bit by his ability to recover quickly and go for a second round most of the time as opposed to it being more the exception for me.
I suppose I knew this deep inside, maybe it's some of what's helped fuel my own desires and in some ways is what's pushed her further in her own desires. I know that when I exercise more regularly (a New Years resolution) that I perform better/longer, etc., so perhaps some of this is something I can address. The thing is, even with her saying this, she made it clear that it didn't matter in terms of how she thought, felt about or loved me - and at one point she even threw in a thank-you to me for accepting this and letting her have fun elsewhere.
We also spent some time talking about intimacy and closeness that we feel for each other - and she wanted to be sure that I knew that even with all of the changes and other things we've tried and done - that she initiated the conversation where she said to me that she doesn't think she's ever felt closer to me than now. She added that even though our sexual relationship is changing, that she felt we maybe even shared more sexual intimacy and closeness now. I picked up on this and asked her more questions because of the stuff that Harry and Peak had posted. I told her that I felt bad that my desires and what turned me on seemed to, at times, work against us - and I told her plainly that I worried that sometimes what I seemed to enjoy and want would push her away from me or make her feel like I didn't love her. (Harry / Peak - I hope I got that right in the way I conveyed it). We talked pretty openly about it.
She agreed with what I continued to say - that I felt that my desires in some ways ****** her to perhaps experience things with her lovers - and I said it pretty clearly "you know, my liking knowing how you cum with Robert or Tony, at the end....". She blushed for a moment as I said it and she paused for a second before replying. She did say that at first she felt very guilty when she realized she wouldn't feel that with me and she even admitted that it did bother her a little bit that I would so willingly give it up. But she said that the more we talked and then, when I opened up about truly wanting to be the beta, that she seemed to somehow accept it. She did say that she missed feeling that with me - and said in general that she did miss the intimacy that we had together without condoms. I was feeling pretty low hearing this and was about to say something when she then changed her tone. She said that while it was different, that it also was after a time when she began to feel much more self-confident and much more self-aware of her desires. I told her that I'd seen this and that I had thought she was really happy and up about it all. She said she was and that was some of her conflict at the time.
As I said, we talked about this for a while - it was most of what we talked about - and the more we talked, the more she conveyed to me how she feels that our relationship has changed over the past few years. She said that she loved that the role of sex in our relationship had changed. She came out and pretty clearly said what I'd been trying to say all along - that early in our marriage, that sex became something where she felt she had to satisfy my - and only now is she seeing that she wants her own. As I've and we've all heard before, she held my hand and said that I'd shown her that she could enjoy sex with other guys. But what she really emphasized was that as part of this - that she'd now been able to look at our own relationship and see that it's about much more than sex and that my desires for her pleasure really struck her as something core in how I felt about her and what I wanted for her and us. At one point she looked at me and said that she had to realize and think about what I was doing or asking or enjoying or agreeing to - not as pushing her away from me - but as something that I was doing to want her to have more pleasure in life as an expression of love.
I'll post this in parts and am going to break here. But for those who are wondering where this is heading - Sue asked that I not return to condom-use just yet. When we talked about it she did say that when/if she finds her next lover, that her desire for this could/will return - but there too - she said that there would be a lot of time to discuss this as it's not something that will happen overnight.
The first that I'll share is something that I suppose I should have known already or at least assumed was going to be. It was a bit humbling to hear, but Sue came out and said that, especially after her time with Robert, that at times I am not up to the sexual peak I used to be in the past. She said that in some ways she had thought my own awareness of this was somewhat behind my more recent admission of wanting to be a beta-male for her. She said that sex between us is still great/awesome and that the last week surely proved/supported that, but more that she simply said that - putting it bluntly - Robert fucked her better than I did at times. She made it clear that it's more of a consistency thing with me - that many times I was equal or better than Robert, but that at other times, well, it either just wasn't as hard or wasn't as hard for as long, etc. And she did say that she had been spoiled a bit by his ability to recover quickly and go for a second round most of the time as opposed to it being more the exception for me.
I suppose I knew this deep inside, maybe it's some of what's helped fuel my own desires and in some ways is what's pushed her further in her own desires. I know that when I exercise more regularly (a New Years resolution) that I perform better/longer, etc., so perhaps some of this is something I can address. The thing is, even with her saying this, she made it clear that it didn't matter in terms of how she thought, felt about or loved me - and at one point she even threw in a thank-you to me for accepting this and letting her have fun elsewhere.
We also spent some time talking about intimacy and closeness that we feel for each other - and she wanted to be sure that I knew that even with all of the changes and other things we've tried and done - that she initiated the conversation where she said to me that she doesn't think she's ever felt closer to me than now. She added that even though our sexual relationship is changing, that she felt we maybe even shared more sexual intimacy and closeness now. I picked up on this and asked her more questions because of the stuff that Harry and Peak had posted. I told her that I felt bad that my desires and what turned me on seemed to, at times, work against us - and I told her plainly that I worried that sometimes what I seemed to enjoy and want would push her away from me or make her feel like I didn't love her. (Harry / Peak - I hope I got that right in the way I conveyed it). We talked pretty openly about it.
She agreed with what I continued to say - that I felt that my desires in some ways ****** her to perhaps experience things with her lovers - and I said it pretty clearly "you know, my liking knowing how you cum with Robert or Tony, at the end....". She blushed for a moment as I said it and she paused for a second before replying. She did say that at first she felt very guilty when she realized she wouldn't feel that with me and she even admitted that it did bother her a little bit that I would so willingly give it up. But she said that the more we talked and then, when I opened up about truly wanting to be the beta, that she seemed to somehow accept it. She did say that she missed feeling that with me - and said in general that she did miss the intimacy that we had together without condoms. I was feeling pretty low hearing this and was about to say something when she then changed her tone. She said that while it was different, that it also was after a time when she began to feel much more self-confident and much more self-aware of her desires. I told her that I'd seen this and that I had thought she was really happy and up about it all. She said she was and that was some of her conflict at the time.
As I said, we talked about this for a while - it was most of what we talked about - and the more we talked, the more she conveyed to me how she feels that our relationship has changed over the past few years. She said that she loved that the role of sex in our relationship had changed. She came out and pretty clearly said what I'd been trying to say all along - that early in our marriage, that sex became something where she felt she had to satisfy my - and only now is she seeing that she wants her own. As I've and we've all heard before, she held my hand and said that I'd shown her that she could enjoy sex with other guys. But what she really emphasized was that as part of this - that she'd now been able to look at our own relationship and see that it's about much more than sex and that my desires for her pleasure really struck her as something core in how I felt about her and what I wanted for her and us. At one point she looked at me and said that she had to realize and think about what I was doing or asking or enjoying or agreeing to - not as pushing her away from me - but as something that I was doing to want her to have more pleasure in life as an expression of love.
I'll post this in parts and am going to break here. But for those who are wondering where this is heading - Sue asked that I not return to condom-use just yet. When we talked about it she did say that when/if she finds her next lover, that her desire for this could/will return - but there too - she said that there would be a lot of time to discuss this as it's not something that will happen overnight.
