Denial 2015
- Thread starterSoonToBe
- Start date
- Status
Yes - Harry and Squirm, you caught the right inflection.
I read everyone's replies and have to tell you that Sue and spent long hours talking last night - she stayed home, said she felt it would have been a bit too much for me (and I told her she was right) for her to see/stay-with him last night. But she did prepare me for him spending next Saturday here with us.
We talked a lot - too much to go into right now before I head into work.
I read everyone's replies and have to tell you that Sue and spent long hours talking last night - she stayed home, said she felt it would have been a bit too much for me (and I told her she was right) for her to see/stay-with him last night. But she did prepare me for him spending next Saturday here with us.
We talked a lot - too much to go into right now before I head into work.
STB,
I'm glad you had a good talk with her and she is understanding that she may have pushed the envelope a little too far. I think she is going through a very exciting time and may get carried away (i.e., the silly looks at her lover in front of you). I hope that is it and not that she is falling in love, despite her assertions otherwise. I remember that she fell in love with Brad, claiming all along that she wasn't in love. I see some parallels to that time.
Sue seems to be moving to a Fem-dom relationship instead of an alpha-beta male situation. For example, she just arranged a ski weeked with you and Paul without your input. Her response to your discomfort tends to be "you started this, you just have to learn to deal with it!" There is nothing wrong with you replying that you will learn to deal with it but that you aren't ready to go that far yet. If she pushes it too far, too fast (as if she isn't going fast enough already!) you may lose the thrill. Better slower and steady than fast and rocky.
Good luck Steve. This is a wonderful journey you are on and I wish I had one like it.
I'm glad you had a good talk with her and she is understanding that she may have pushed the envelope a little too far. I think she is going through a very exciting time and may get carried away (i.e., the silly looks at her lover in front of you). I hope that is it and not that she is falling in love, despite her assertions otherwise. I remember that she fell in love with Brad, claiming all along that she wasn't in love. I see some parallels to that time.
Sue seems to be moving to a Fem-dom relationship instead of an alpha-beta male situation. For example, she just arranged a ski weeked with you and Paul without your input. Her response to your discomfort tends to be "you started this, you just have to learn to deal with it!" There is nothing wrong with you replying that you will learn to deal with it but that you aren't ready to go that far yet. If she pushes it too far, too fast (as if she isn't going fast enough already!) you may lose the thrill. Better slower and steady than fast and rocky.
Good luck Steve. This is a wonderful journey you are on and I wish I had one like it.
Knk069 said:
Steve as mentioned by Knk069, he believes that Sue seems to be moving to a Fem-dom relationship instead of an alpha-beta male situation. In my personal experience along with consideration to what you have recently written it would seem to me that as a couple you & Sue may be moving more into what I would consider a Female Led Relationship/Marriage (FLR/M) which clearly does include a beta male role and does give most if not all final decisions with respect to many areas of the relationship over to the wife (Sue).
With a FLR there is nothing wrong with Sue taking the lead if this is what you both have agreed to as a couple moving forward. In many cases you will find within an FLR, the husband does assume a much more submissive beta role in many areas of the relationship while some men are only truly beta when when it comes to the sexual side of the relationship, in either case the wife may take another man for her sexual enjoyment if she does desire a man that is more alpha in the bedroom. In this situation, Sue has given you what you have asked for, some times fantasy and desire is not always the same once the reality of the same does happen although as Sue mentioned, it is something that indeed did ask for.
Open and honest communication is the key to this type of relationship. Reflect on what you truly desire and what you truly are open to accepting as part of those desires. This is a journey for you both and you both should be able to fully enjoy it in your own respective way.
For your reference, you may want to take a look at www aboutflr com / What-Is-FLR html and take note to the "5 food groups" referenced.
No matter the type of relationship, not ever man can accept being truly beta in or out of the bedroom. In my case it took me many years to transition from being the Alpha to being the beta.
Thanks, Squirming, That is a very informative and enlightening site. I'm interested in where Steve places he, and Sue's relationship/marriage, and where others would place them. 1,2,3 or 4.
BTW, that site is more easily assessable at <www.aboutflr.com/What-Is-FLR.html>
Cheers, Harry
BTW, that site is more easily assessable at <www.aboutflr.com/What-Is-FLR.html>
Cheers, Harry
Last edited:
Squirming,
Thanks for mentioning the FLR site. Ironically, I was on that site shortly before my post. Whether FLR or femdom (much overlap between the two), Sue does seems to have taken the reigns away from Steve - at least sexually. Isn't that what all of us reading this site are hoping for from our wives? I don't think they are into that beyond the sex. I didn't want to hijack the thread into a FLR/Femdom discussion. Just wanted to point out that she seems to have fully taken charge. Let's hope they are having their usual Wednesday session and things are going smoothly.
Thanks for mentioning the FLR site. Ironically, I was on that site shortly before my post. Whether FLR or femdom (much overlap between the two), Sue does seems to have taken the reigns away from Steve - at least sexually. Isn't that what all of us reading this site are hoping for from our wives? I don't think they are into that beyond the sex. I didn't want to hijack the thread into a FLR/Femdom discussion. Just wanted to point out that she seems to have fully taken charge. Let's hope they are having their usual Wednesday session and things are going smoothly.
Last edited:
I think in much of 'western' society in marriages where both Man & Wife each have jobs, and share in doing many of the household duties, it is only logical that the timing of sex between them will be more at the wive's discretion. Meaning she will have the power to say (No! Or Yes!) depending on her feelings (or mood) at the time. Gone is the time when a wife felt she should "prepare herself" every night for sex, in case her husband "wants it."
There may also be some 'agree'd scheduling' of sexual events, due to the multaplicity of their schedules.
Decisions are shared for most events, but a 'tired' wife does not make a willing sex partner, so in that way, she will have more of a decisive roll in (1) sexual activities, and (2) directing her husband in other chores such as cleaning & cooking. Putting them more in FLR's # 1 category IMO
Cheers, Harry
There may also be some 'agree'd scheduling' of sexual events, due to the multaplicity of their schedules.
Decisions are shared for most events, but a 'tired' wife does not make a willing sex partner, so in that way, she will have more of a decisive roll in (1) sexual activities, and (2) directing her husband in other chores such as cleaning & cooking. Putting them more in FLR's # 1 category IMO
Cheers, Harry
Last edited:
Guys - Steve and Sue are exploring a lifestyle change together. This is a relationship evolution which is sure to make them stronger as a couple with or without Paul. I am sure that he does have a lot to think about and if all goes well we will continue to have the privilege of reading his expressive post.
Well, it's been a crazy busy week for both of us at work so her decision to wait to see Paul till this weekend was good for both of us in more than one way. She's still at work and this is the first break I've had today really.
I saw the last few updates and I agree that I do see some of these changes that everyone is speaking about. Obviously she is taking more control sexually between us. It's subtle along the lines of what Harry concluded as I don't see anything in terms of #2 that Harry represented, nor do I feel that this is part of what is going on between us.
She's been very open with me about it and I guess, now after what we spoke about last night, that I can maybe summarize things rather than going into all sorts of details.
I started to share some of this earlier but the short version is that Sue basically said to me that I started all of this and that over time she's come around to understanding me and coming to terms with what I seem to be aroused by. She said that she finally feels like she's ready to let this happen - for me to become the beta-male for her and that she says she genuinely wants to experience feeling her sexual desires pointed towards another guy. She made it very clear to me that she isn't doing this to hurt me, that is actually the furthest thing from her mind. But she says she feels conflicted because of how I was behaving - similar to what Peak had said - that her knowing that I was deferring my own pleasure in the misguided goal of enjoying it with her. She said that she doesn't want to hurt me but also has said that she feels she either needs to move ahead with this or that she's not sure how she feels - meaning that she's not sure she likes the in-between place that we are at right now.
I should also add that she has continued to say that she doesn't want to totally deny me - again she's said that she can't see that as our end-state, but that she also repeated that she wants it to be when she wants it with me and that is somewhat governed by her own desires as well as when she will be seeing Paul.
There's a million more things I could share but am running out of time before she gets home today.
I saw the last few updates and I agree that I do see some of these changes that everyone is speaking about. Obviously she is taking more control sexually between us. It's subtle along the lines of what Harry concluded as I don't see anything in terms of #2 that Harry represented, nor do I feel that this is part of what is going on between us.
She's been very open with me about it and I guess, now after what we spoke about last night, that I can maybe summarize things rather than going into all sorts of details.
I started to share some of this earlier but the short version is that Sue basically said to me that I started all of this and that over time she's come around to understanding me and coming to terms with what I seem to be aroused by. She said that she finally feels like she's ready to let this happen - for me to become the beta-male for her and that she says she genuinely wants to experience feeling her sexual desires pointed towards another guy. She made it very clear to me that she isn't doing this to hurt me, that is actually the furthest thing from her mind. But she says she feels conflicted because of how I was behaving - similar to what Peak had said - that her knowing that I was deferring my own pleasure in the misguided goal of enjoying it with her. She said that she doesn't want to hurt me but also has said that she feels she either needs to move ahead with this or that she's not sure how she feels - meaning that she's not sure she likes the in-between place that we are at right now.
I should also add that she has continued to say that she doesn't want to totally deny me - again she's said that she can't see that as our end-state, but that she also repeated that she wants it to be when she wants it with me and that is somewhat governed by her own desires as well as when she will be seeing Paul.
There's a million more things I could share but am running out of time before she gets home today.
Thanks Steve, I'm not sure that will pacify the amazing amount of questions and comments that have been put up since last weekend but I agree that you are both in an inbetween state at the moment which is frankly not surprising given the three personalities involved. Traditionally, Paul might have taken a more Alpha role, but he either can't or really doesn't want to. Sue herself is clearly conflicted playing a completely dominant role. I suspect it's not her natural state so she is feeling it out as she goes, knowing where she thinks she's heading to but not quite sure of it or how to get there. Finally, I have never been convinced that you are, or ever have been, a submissive. I think you like the idea, but the reality is a little different and you need to evolve towards it slowly. I'm sure you both believe that when Paul has run his course (which may take a while) that you can somehow revert as you always have. The thing is, you are both going into places where that may not be entirely possible and I suspect you can both sense this. Which leaves the question, just where is the final end game and just how far should you bend at the moment so that you can still bend (mostly) back. I suspect none of us or you really know the answer to this one, which is partly why every man and his dog is trying to fill the vacuum. Personally, I think you are okay at the moment. Some of it is happening quicker that you expected, but that next ski trip for example is really just more of the same. It's only a step change if you make it one in your head.
Last edited:
Glad to hear you and Sue are doing some serious talking since last weekend. You seemed to have hit a big stumbling block on Monday. I'm not sure it was all your doing. In my opinion, Sue shouldn't be upset with how you are acting. There is nothing wrong with a beta holding out for or wanting sex with his wife. The pressure she feels to have sex with you is in her head, unless you are giving her signals you want sex.
I think Monday morning really hit you hard for a several reasons. First, it had been 6 weeks without having bare sex with her as you commented that weekend. Monday morning you were ready for him to leave so you could reconnect (sexually or otherwise) but he stayed and they resumed their sexual romp. But the key thing may have been at breakfast when they treated you "cordially" and made silly eyes at each other before openly making out at the table when you came back from the kitchen.
Throughout this multi-year, multi-lover journey, you and Sue have been on it together spiritually/emotionally even when you were not physically present when she was with her lovers. Her/their actions on Monday clearly took you out of the equation and you probably (should have if not) felt excluded. You were no longer on the journey with her, but a bystander watching her new journey with only Paul.
I may be way off, but that is what it seems like to me. I'm glad she saw your discomfort and didn't visit Paul on Tuesday. Good luck sorting out how things should proceed.
I think Monday morning really hit you hard for a several reasons. First, it had been 6 weeks without having bare sex with her as you commented that weekend. Monday morning you were ready for him to leave so you could reconnect (sexually or otherwise) but he stayed and they resumed their sexual romp. But the key thing may have been at breakfast when they treated you "cordially" and made silly eyes at each other before openly making out at the table when you came back from the kitchen.
Throughout this multi-year, multi-lover journey, you and Sue have been on it together spiritually/emotionally even when you were not physically present when she was with her lovers. Her/their actions on Monday clearly took you out of the equation and you probably (should have if not) felt excluded. You were no longer on the journey with her, but a bystander watching her new journey with only Paul.
I may be way off, but that is what it seems like to me. I'm glad she saw your discomfort and didn't visit Paul on Tuesday. Good luck sorting out how things should proceed.
Y
Steve, What I meant to say is that, what I said about western society in general, could be classified as FLR #1. Just to look at it from a sexual perspective, during the first few years of marriage, it may only take a 'glance', a smile, or a kiss, and you are heading to bed (or the couch). But after a few years go by, and as I said, the multiplicity of life with work, children, and all the things to do, it really comes down to, 'how she feels' and what 'mood' she is in. So in that respect, she is in control of at least that part of our married life. That's not all that's implied in FLR #1, but if we had to judge, thats where the most of us would be.
I did not pretend to classify You and Sue to any of the FLR groups, However, looking at the overall picture you have drawn for us over the period of 6-7 years, up until Sept. 2014. Looking at your desires, & intentions, and Sue's reactions to them, as well as where she has gone/done to help you fulfill your desires, ..... and, (as you have often said) "expand her sexual horizons," You could not logically be placed solely in FLR #1, but would have to consider that you and Sue have indeed entered FLR #2. As I understand it! I have not even been there, but I have read the descriptions. Perhaps those with FLR experience could enlighten me/us. (?)
[Just so you know, I am excluding the last 5 months, because I don't know, nor would I pretend to predict, where this 'chapter' is going, or when it will end].
Cheers, Harry
SoonToBe said:
Steve, What I meant to say is that, what I said about western society in general, could be classified as FLR #1. Just to look at it from a sexual perspective, during the first few years of marriage, it may only take a 'glance', a smile, or a kiss, and you are heading to bed (or the couch). But after a few years go by, and as I said, the multiplicity of life with work, children, and all the things to do, it really comes down to, 'how she feels' and what 'mood' she is in. So in that respect, she is in control of at least that part of our married life. That's not all that's implied in FLR #1, but if we had to judge, thats where the most of us would be.
I did not pretend to classify You and Sue to any of the FLR groups, However, looking at the overall picture you have drawn for us over the period of 6-7 years, up until Sept. 2014. Looking at your desires, & intentions, and Sue's reactions to them, as well as where she has gone/done to help you fulfill your desires, ..... and, (as you have often said) "expand her sexual horizons," You could not logically be placed solely in FLR #1, but would have to consider that you and Sue have indeed entered FLR #2. As I understand it! I have not even been there, but I have read the descriptions. Perhaps those with FLR experience could enlighten me/us. (?)
[Just so you know, I am excluding the last 5 months, because I don't know, nor would I pretend to predict, where this 'chapter' is going, or when it will end].
Cheers, Harry
Last edited:
peakmb said:
Sitting back and lurking for the past several weeks; at this point I remain confused, unsure of what is really going on and finding difficulty, as previously determined goals and desires now seem to be see-sawing back and forth with an almost comical degree of regularity.
HOWEVER
I have just returned to finish this post after a lengthy and fairly involved conversation with my Dog. He was very decisive as he explained his position. He wants TOTAL denial!! He was very adamant. NO "Oh we can have bare sex once and a while as a special treat" NO "Well we can have condom sex anytime we want" NO "Surely we can have condom sex sometimes" "Bow-wow-wow-wow"........I mean "NO-NO-NO" "NO sex of any kind..."Bow-Wow Bow-Wow" I mean "At least until this thing with Paul has run its course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Last edited:
Csguy, I get your point ..... Might as well be talking to your dog, but I don't quite see it that way.
fascinating
Actually what I see here is fascinating but tragic. Like what heritage are you passing on to your grandkids.
Hey if Sue wants to have you cum, but not in her, I think the perfect solution is to practice tantra-yoga. There you face each other sitting on pillows, joining outstretched hands. With your legs outside of hers, she can bend at her knee's stroking your cock with the souls of her feet. When you get to the 'point of no return' clamp down your PC muscles, preventing ejaculation. The tantra energy then moves up your spine creating enlightenment.
Really!! This has been done by the tantra masters for centuries and is still going on. No need for Sue to fined a 'Paul', Glenn or any other guy. How can 10,000 tantra guru's be wrong, this is the short version, there are many books on this.
The important thing is that once you have mastered the art of moving your essence up your spine to enlightenment, you can fuck Sue to screaming orgasms, and still not cum in her. Cheers, Harry
fascinating
Actually what I see here is fascinating but tragic. Like what heritage are you passing on to your grandkids.
Hey if Sue wants to have you cum, but not in her, I think the perfect solution is to practice tantra-yoga. There you face each other sitting on pillows, joining outstretched hands. With your legs outside of hers, she can bend at her knee's stroking your cock with the souls of her feet. When you get to the 'point of no return' clamp down your PC muscles, preventing ejaculation. The tantra energy then moves up your spine creating enlightenment.
Really!! This has been done by the tantra masters for centuries and is still going on. No need for Sue to fined a 'Paul', Glenn or any other guy. How can 10,000 tantra guru's be wrong, this is the short version, there are many books on this.
The important thing is that once you have mastered the art of moving your essence up your spine to enlightenment, you can fuck Sue to screaming orgasms, and still not cum in her. Cheers, Harry
Last edited:
While we each have our own view point and experiences respectively, I am sure that we all can agree that Steve and Sue have come a long way over the years. As a couple they have evolved and continue to evolve with the lifestyle adjustments to include Paul at the level in which they are exploring together as a couple and as a triad of sorts. Just like any of us within the lifestyle or that are in traditional relationship we have chosen there are always up and downs that we work through. Steve and Sue together will find what work best for each of the individually and together as a couple.
Last edited:
- Status
