Hey all, sorry for the delay in posting here but the rest of the weekend just got away from us.
I'll answer Far2's latest questions in a bit but I guess the big news is how the chat with Frank went.
It went better than I could have expected and wasn't nearly as awkward as I'd also expected.
He had a very friendly greeting for me and eagerly offered me a beer and said that "we don't get together often enough". I commented that I thought it was a bit awkward given what was going on and that's when he said that he'd actually been thinking that either the 3 of us needed to talk openly together or that he and I needed some time.
Before I could really say much he said "that's some woman you have there". I smiled and said yes, that I knew that. He joked with me and said that lately he'd become much more understanding of how I felt about things. I asked him what he meant and - after clearing his voice and taking a big gulp of beer - he basically said that he's now seeing (at least what he thinks) is some of what led us to letting her see other guys.
I guess that's not really fair to jump right into the whole conversation like that - there was some earlier idle chit-chat between us. He did seem hesitant at first to talk until I kind of said to him something like "I know things have been going on pretty steady for almost 2 years no". He didn't really say much until I said "I know you've given her some really good times" and I told him that I was okay with it - and even told him that I liked knowing Sue was in "good hands" and that the two of them seemed to have found a good rhythm - and then I added - at least for a while. He was still a little hesitant and cautious until I said I was happy that he'd satisfied her for a while. It wasn't until I started to say that I thought that lately she'd been searching for "more" that he started to reply a bit more openly.
I told him, in response to his now maybe understanding more of what's going on that I'd/we'd (her and I) had talked openly about her desires and I told him that I'd with this being a second-marriage for both of us (something apparently he didn't know) that we both understood that there was much more to a relationship than just sex. And I added that neither of us felt that sex with others was necessarily toxic to a relationship as long as it wasn't done with malice. I also told him that as Sue'd approached menopause that she and I had wanted to do more sexually "before it's too late". Actually, what I told him was what we'd both heard about regrets - the people later in life regretted more not doing/trying something that they were interested in vs. regretting trying something and not liking or enjoying it.
He said that he'd never met someone like Sue who was as comfortable sexually as she is. I told him that it was one of the things that had attracted me to her and I told him outright that "her promiscuity was something that has always turned me on". That really seemed to finally ease things between us and he said that he wasn't sure he could deal with it like I do - but he immediately said "but I have no doubt that she loves you - the way she talks about you and all of that .... you have nothing to worry about" and he said that he was a bit surprised by that when he first heard her saying that as he couldn't see how she loved me by fucking other guys. But over the 2 years (and he couldn't believe it was 2 years already) that he'd come to see and know what she said was true. He said that at first hearing that from her was something that kept him unsure of what to do but that over time he learned to believe her about what I was saying and doing and wanting (or rather, not minding).
I did wind up telling him that I think she's going through different phases and I was honest with him and said that "right now - unless I take her away on vacation, she finds it really hard to let go sexually" and I looked at him and said "for as awkward as it was, I was happy that you took her to AC back in December" and I joked with him that "I think, at times, you fuck her more than I do!". He laughed but immediately said "that's her desire" and he again said that he didn't want to cause any problems. I laughed back at him and said he needn't worry.
We didn't talk much more about the way she and I interact. I got the feeling from some of what we talked about that Sue had told him about stuff that we do - whether it's her denying me, etc. The closest we got to this was when he asked me if I was okay about him having gone away with her like he did. I didn't say that Sue had gone away or spent the night with other guys outright but I did say that she had "come home really late (like next morning)" before they'd started seeing each other. He seemed to want to hear how I felt about it so I told him outright - that it hurt the first times (yes, I told him it happened more than once) but that at the same time it made me feel so horny about her - and when it didn't seem like it had hurt us, that it seemed like it wasn't so bad.
He was quiet for a bit after I said that and I think he was kind of unsure of it all until I said something like "look - you like fucking her and she obviously likes fucking you - I know you've shared a lot with her - and I'm okay with it".
No - we didn't talk about fucking her or what positions or all of that. And no, it wasn't like a Son-of-John moment where Franks said to me "I like her pussy".
It was Frank who actually said that he'd felt things were changing. And he said to me that he was a little surprised that Sue had wanted to go with him in December. I told him that I thought he'd done great with her and I even said to him "I know she really had a good time with you". And that was when he said it to me - that he'd started to feel, of late, that she wanted more and he looked at me and said that he didn't think he was the guy for her for the future.
I think he was trying, in a way, to apologize to me for maybe feeling like he'd brought her to this point where she now wanted more and that maybe he was saying sorry to me for doing so. It was kind of weird so I told him that I'd felt that she was wanting more too and I told him that I'd even told her that I wasn't sure he was going to be able to do it. And that was when he said to me that he did feel a little guilty "doing all that with her". I said that I think she's still sorting out what she wants in life "while she still can get it" and I laughed and said that I'm okay with her exploring he sexuality.
He looked at me and said that if I'd said that to him 2 years earlier he'd have thought I was crazy or something like that - but he said that after all of this time that he now no longer thought that way. He actually seemed complimentary to me - saying that he could never do this with someone he loved but that if he'd had the length and type of relationship I have had with Sue - and if he knew and was secure in his partner's love for him the way he says Sue is about me - that maybe he could - and he looked at me and said that given what he now knows about Sue, that it seems like it's the right thing for us. He said he'd been concerned at times about his feelings for her - but that she'd always kept him in check and had never really returned his feelings.
I told him that I thought things were going to be changing between them and he said that he knew it and as he'd said, that even before their December trip, that he'd felt things were changing. He didn't come out and say it but in a round-about way he did express concern that I should be aware of what she was wanting - saying that he'd seen her wanting more from him and that he wasn't comfortable giving. He seemed to imply that it was more than just one thing he wasn't comfortable about but I didn't push it and took it as accepting that he wasn't going to be the one for much longer. He seemed to be expressing some concern for me but I told him that this is no different than anything that's already happened and I told him that Sue and I always talk about everything. He laughed at that and said that too had surprised him - that I knew about everything that was going on between them.
We were well into our 3rd or 4th beer by the time we got to this point where we were talking much more easily. I can't tell you all of what we talked about but he asked me some questions about how all of this happened and how I got to feel okay about her having sex with other guys. He actually asked it in the sense that he didn't think he could have felt that way before meeting Sue - that his relationship with Joanne wasn't anything like what Sue and I have or even as open as what he's achieved with Sue. I tried to explain things and he nodded in agreement and most of the time said "that's what she said".
I think I'm rambling on a bit here and may have lost focus as I'm trying to do two things at the same time - so I'll just end it here by saying that we parted on amicable terms. I did tell him that Sue would always have feelings for him and I laughed and said it wouldn't surprise me if she acted on them in the future, but that I thought Sue wanted a bit of a break - and he agreed and again said that was what she'd also said. He did say that he hoped that our friendship (his and mine) would be okay in the future and that he'd long wondered about it. I told him that it was okay and that I'm sure we'd get back to "normal". He seemed a bit hesitant or maybe cautious until I told him how I'd felt long ago when Sue and I first met and I knew other guys who's fucked her and I was okay with them. That seemed to relieve him and he kind of shook my hand and said something like "I guess we'll just see what happens".
I'll answer Far2's latest questions in a bit but I guess the big news is how the chat with Frank went.
It went better than I could have expected and wasn't nearly as awkward as I'd also expected.
He had a very friendly greeting for me and eagerly offered me a beer and said that "we don't get together often enough". I commented that I thought it was a bit awkward given what was going on and that's when he said that he'd actually been thinking that either the 3 of us needed to talk openly together or that he and I needed some time.
Before I could really say much he said "that's some woman you have there". I smiled and said yes, that I knew that. He joked with me and said that lately he'd become much more understanding of how I felt about things. I asked him what he meant and - after clearing his voice and taking a big gulp of beer - he basically said that he's now seeing (at least what he thinks) is some of what led us to letting her see other guys.
I guess that's not really fair to jump right into the whole conversation like that - there was some earlier idle chit-chat between us. He did seem hesitant at first to talk until I kind of said to him something like "I know things have been going on pretty steady for almost 2 years no". He didn't really say much until I said "I know you've given her some really good times" and I told him that I was okay with it - and even told him that I liked knowing Sue was in "good hands" and that the two of them seemed to have found a good rhythm - and then I added - at least for a while. He was still a little hesitant and cautious until I said I was happy that he'd satisfied her for a while. It wasn't until I started to say that I thought that lately she'd been searching for "more" that he started to reply a bit more openly.
I told him, in response to his now maybe understanding more of what's going on that I'd/we'd (her and I) had talked openly about her desires and I told him that I'd with this being a second-marriage for both of us (something apparently he didn't know) that we both understood that there was much more to a relationship than just sex. And I added that neither of us felt that sex with others was necessarily toxic to a relationship as long as it wasn't done with malice. I also told him that as Sue'd approached menopause that she and I had wanted to do more sexually "before it's too late". Actually, what I told him was what we'd both heard about regrets - the people later in life regretted more not doing/trying something that they were interested in vs. regretting trying something and not liking or enjoying it.
He said that he'd never met someone like Sue who was as comfortable sexually as she is. I told him that it was one of the things that had attracted me to her and I told him outright that "her promiscuity was something that has always turned me on". That really seemed to finally ease things between us and he said that he wasn't sure he could deal with it like I do - but he immediately said "but I have no doubt that she loves you - the way she talks about you and all of that .... you have nothing to worry about" and he said that he was a bit surprised by that when he first heard her saying that as he couldn't see how she loved me by fucking other guys. But over the 2 years (and he couldn't believe it was 2 years already) that he'd come to see and know what she said was true. He said that at first hearing that from her was something that kept him unsure of what to do but that over time he learned to believe her about what I was saying and doing and wanting (or rather, not minding).
I did wind up telling him that I think she's going through different phases and I was honest with him and said that "right now - unless I take her away on vacation, she finds it really hard to let go sexually" and I looked at him and said "for as awkward as it was, I was happy that you took her to AC back in December" and I joked with him that "I think, at times, you fuck her more than I do!". He laughed but immediately said "that's her desire" and he again said that he didn't want to cause any problems. I laughed back at him and said he needn't worry.
We didn't talk much more about the way she and I interact. I got the feeling from some of what we talked about that Sue had told him about stuff that we do - whether it's her denying me, etc. The closest we got to this was when he asked me if I was okay about him having gone away with her like he did. I didn't say that Sue had gone away or spent the night with other guys outright but I did say that she had "come home really late (like next morning)" before they'd started seeing each other. He seemed to want to hear how I felt about it so I told him outright - that it hurt the first times (yes, I told him it happened more than once) but that at the same time it made me feel so horny about her - and when it didn't seem like it had hurt us, that it seemed like it wasn't so bad.
He was quiet for a bit after I said that and I think he was kind of unsure of it all until I said something like "look - you like fucking her and she obviously likes fucking you - I know you've shared a lot with her - and I'm okay with it".
No - we didn't talk about fucking her or what positions or all of that. And no, it wasn't like a Son-of-John moment where Franks said to me "I like her pussy".
It was Frank who actually said that he'd felt things were changing. And he said to me that he was a little surprised that Sue had wanted to go with him in December. I told him that I thought he'd done great with her and I even said to him "I know she really had a good time with you". And that was when he said it to me - that he'd started to feel, of late, that she wanted more and he looked at me and said that he didn't think he was the guy for her for the future.
I think he was trying, in a way, to apologize to me for maybe feeling like he'd brought her to this point where she now wanted more and that maybe he was saying sorry to me for doing so. It was kind of weird so I told him that I'd felt that she was wanting more too and I told him that I'd even told her that I wasn't sure he was going to be able to do it. And that was when he said to me that he did feel a little guilty "doing all that with her". I said that I think she's still sorting out what she wants in life "while she still can get it" and I laughed and said that I'm okay with her exploring he sexuality.
He looked at me and said that if I'd said that to him 2 years earlier he'd have thought I was crazy or something like that - but he said that after all of this time that he now no longer thought that way. He actually seemed complimentary to me - saying that he could never do this with someone he loved but that if he'd had the length and type of relationship I have had with Sue - and if he knew and was secure in his partner's love for him the way he says Sue is about me - that maybe he could - and he looked at me and said that given what he now knows about Sue, that it seems like it's the right thing for us. He said he'd been concerned at times about his feelings for her - but that she'd always kept him in check and had never really returned his feelings.
I told him that I thought things were going to be changing between them and he said that he knew it and as he'd said, that even before their December trip, that he'd felt things were changing. He didn't come out and say it but in a round-about way he did express concern that I should be aware of what she was wanting - saying that he'd seen her wanting more from him and that he wasn't comfortable giving. He seemed to imply that it was more than just one thing he wasn't comfortable about but I didn't push it and took it as accepting that he wasn't going to be the one for much longer. He seemed to be expressing some concern for me but I told him that this is no different than anything that's already happened and I told him that Sue and I always talk about everything. He laughed at that and said that too had surprised him - that I knew about everything that was going on between them.
We were well into our 3rd or 4th beer by the time we got to this point where we were talking much more easily. I can't tell you all of what we talked about but he asked me some questions about how all of this happened and how I got to feel okay about her having sex with other guys. He actually asked it in the sense that he didn't think he could have felt that way before meeting Sue - that his relationship with Joanne wasn't anything like what Sue and I have or even as open as what he's achieved with Sue. I tried to explain things and he nodded in agreement and most of the time said "that's what she said".
I think I'm rambling on a bit here and may have lost focus as I'm trying to do two things at the same time - so I'll just end it here by saying that we parted on amicable terms. I did tell him that Sue would always have feelings for him and I laughed and said it wouldn't surprise me if she acted on them in the future, but that I thought Sue wanted a bit of a break - and he agreed and again said that was what she'd also said. He did say that he hoped that our friendship (his and mine) would be okay in the future and that he'd long wondered about it. I told him that it was okay and that I'm sure we'd get back to "normal". He seemed a bit hesitant or maybe cautious until I told him how I'd felt long ago when Sue and I first met and I knew other guys who's fucked her and I was okay with them. That seemed to relieve him and he kind of shook my hand and said something like "I guess we'll just see what happens".
