Psychology of a Cuckold

[subd]

I agree. It's not unusual in the news.

Not too long ago (during 2011), a woman friend — with whom I do not have a sleeping relationship — introduced me to a married woman friend of hers I'll call "Elspeth," whom she had met not too long before... i.e., it was not a long-term friendship. Elspeth was and is not a "happily married" woman.

The three of us went for a drive up a relatively-large hill outside of town with good views from the top. (In the eastern U.S., it would be called a mountain.) It was overcast and raining lightly; hardly anyone else was there. Elspeth... about 5'4", not overweight, and relatively attractive... began talking about her emotional/sexual problems vis-a-vis her husband, who had lost whatever sexual interest he may have had in her, was unresponsive to her attempts to turn him on and seduce him, and spent his time at home... when he was not working... preoccupied with pornography on the Internet. They have a relatively nice house in a good neighborhood that's attractive inside, my friend tells me. Elspeth used to be an interior designer.

Elspeth had taken a lover, about whom she had reservations. He's been married and divorced 6 times. From her descriptions of him, he displays, I would say, many if not most of the classical signs of a woman abuser. He owns two handguns, one of which he keeps under his mattress on his side of the bed; the other he keeps under his mattress at the foot of his bed (which brings to mind "Haywire" the movie — but, I digress.)

As you've guessed by now, no doubt, the state I live in is one of the many U.S. states that have legalized carrying concealed weapons (read, concealed guns). Elspeth said her husband had never had any interest in guns. But, a month or two earlier he had bought several, including two handguns, and had begun practicing regularly on a firing range.

Enroute back from the hilltop, my friend and I made a fairly serious attempt to convince Elspeth that of the options available to her, by far the worst and most dangerous would be to move in with her lover. Even worse, if she divorces her husband (that's in progress, as I understand it), would be to marry her lover. But, Elspeth... who listened and continued to talk with us... seemed unlikely to accept what we were trying to tell her. When we got back to her place, she made it clear she found me attractive and kissed me, with feeling, on the lips. I kissed her back.

Later, Elspeth mentioned her husband keeps one of his handguns, a .44, under the front seat of their car. (They have one vehicle, which she drives after giving her husband a ride to work.) Later still, my friend and Elspeth stopped by my place; Elspeth was driving. After a bit, as they were about to leave, I asked Elspeth if she had her gun. She said yes. Is it loaded? Yes. Is it holstered, or knocking around loose on the floor? It's holstered. I could see it, she pointed out, opening the door. Part of the holster was visible, projecting out from beneath the front seat. I asked her if she's a good shot. She said she practices on a firing range about every 10 days, and is usually able to hit the target. I mentioned there is a saying: if you carry a gun, it's only a matter of time until you shoot someone. I hoped that would not pertain to her. They left.

More recently, my friend mentioned that Elspeth moved in with her lover. He too had bought her a handgun so she would have one of her very own. She keeps it under (now their) mattress on her side of the bed. Unable to resist, I commented that fucking must be terrifying since, on every thrust, there's a possibility of inadvertently triggering a gunshot — if not three — and blowing a hole in a wall or window. My friend was not amused.

I'm pretty sure all this is going to end badly, but so far (remarkably) no one has been shot. As for me, since Elspeth and her .44 and my friend drove off from my place, I have not seen or talked further with her. There's something about a woman carrying a concealed gun — or a gun out in the open, say in a hip holster — I find unattractive. Maybe it's because of my awareness that a frightened person with a loaded gun is somewhere near the top of the "disasters waiting to happen" scale, and the disaster could be me.

You see, I'm not a gun guy. Some time ago, in response to me stating I don't own a gun and never have, the person I was talking with, visibly surprised, said: Why not? Because I don't need one, I replied. That ended the conversation.

YIKES

When I think of the word Cuckolding I think of a sexual lifestyle that people share.

This is just a straight up cheating drama inducing foolish Lady who watched Pulp Fiction one too many times lol I see multiple people pointing multiple guns at each others heads in B movie fashion before this ends.

 

[kimcarl]

Subd:

Thank you for you response and helping me understand your position and views. What you say makes sense. Now, I want to give you a little more from my perspective.

I seem to notice that men want this lifestyle more than women. This may not be true, but it seems men lead the way very often.

The guy I fantasized about would NOT be a man I would want to have children with. In my mind, his gene pool would be less than my husbands, or not as favorable.

I admit to being a total slut when I was younger. However, I always wanted to be loved and cherished by the man more than wanting the actual sex. I thought the sex would bring his love to me. It didn't work. But I actually believed that the way to a mans heart was through sex.

My husband told me he also had a need to spread his seed but didn't do it.

I do think there is an attraction to big "cocks" and "superior men."

My husband said there is an attraction to superior women.

I have gone out with single women for the first time in many years. One night there were two guys, both physically superior to many men in many ways, and displaying some attitude. What I noticed at our table was that although many comments were made about these men, they were turned down by women at our table. However, when a more average guy approached, a nice guy, dressed in jeans and a t-shirt, the women were like vulchers. It was as though what I tossed out (not literally, he divorced me) was what these women were seeking. I sure did feel like shit.

What I have also noticed in these single women is that their priorities seem to be geared almost exclusively towards finding a long-term "nice guy." Is it because he will be the one that will be safe in the "nest" and they will cheat on him when they get him? For some reason I don't think this is the case, perhaps with some of them, but not the majority.

I know from my perspective, if I do get a second chance at the love I had, I will never cheat, not ever. But I also never did during my marriage, it was only the thought and fantasy and pushing it with my husband that ended my marriage.

Playboy and Penthouse are big sellers. Men like perfect women. Likewise, women like perfect men. Few of us are among the top in terms of looks or penis. It doesn't mean we all don't want the perfect specimen, but how can we all have the top 10%?

When I talk about fantasy these are the types of things I am taking about.

I could see that other women were attracted to my husband. I hear women tell me what a great man I had. This is difficult because I see it now. So, again, where is this a fantasy and where is it biological? It seems too complicated to ever know for sure.

I am far from the only woman that has discounted a great man. I read a story about a woman that did the same thing. She got out in the wold and even years later, many years later, regretted her actions. She could have had all the "dick" she wanted, but was not happy, and actually didn't want it after all.

So this is why I issue my warning. Be careful what you wish for--be careful in what you think you need.

Subd, I understand you position and feelings. I get what your are saying. But in hind site, I will take a big heart, true dedication, and true love over a big dick.

In my life, I now see this like a big house. We all dream of having it all. The big house, expensive car, the hot model wife, the big burly man, the big dick, the big tits, the perfect children, our star son as the professional athlete, the daughter that becomes the senator, we want it all. This is our society.

Recently a poll came out reflecting what college students want in a spouse. About 10% of men meet the standard the women hold and about 10% of women meet the standards men hold. This doesn't work. But this speaks volumes about what our world had become. But I have no room to talk.

My message is think before you leap. We can all say there are biological need to be with other men and be with other women. We can say there is a biological need to spread the seed and seek the cock. The problem comes in when what we seek is not real but fantasy. When we are with a great specimen and discount them for a fantasy, woman or man. Women cheat and men cheat, but best get your head on straight as to why and make sure your thinking is in check first.

 

[kimcarl]

PS- I think it would be interesting to hear from an equal number of women on this subject. I would like this very much.

 

[subd]

Subd:

Thank you for you response and helping me understand your position and views. What you say makes sense. Now, I want to give you a little more from my perspective.

I seem to notice that men want this lifestyle more than women. This may not be true, but it seems men lead the way very often.

The guy I fantasized about would NOT be a man I would want to have children with. In my mind, his gene pool would be less than my husbands, or not as favorable.

I admit to being a total slut when I was younger. However, I always wanted to be loved and cherished by the man more than wanting the actual sex. I thought the sex would bring his love to me. It didn't work. But I actually believed that the way to a mans heart was through sex.

My husband told me he also had a need to spread his seed but didn't do it.

I do think there is an attraction to big "cocks" and "superior men."

My husband said there is an attraction to superior women.

I have gone out with single women for the first time in many years. One night there were two guys, both physically superior to many men in many ways, and displaying some attitude. What I noticed at our table was that although many comments were made about these men, they were turned down by women at our table. However, when a more average guy approached, a nice guy, dressed in jeans and a t-shirt, the women were like vulchers. It was as though what I tossed out (not literally, he divorced me) was what these women were seeking. I sure did feel like shit.

What I have also noticed in these single women is that their priorities seem to be geared almost exclusively towards finding a long-term "nice guy." Is it because he will be the one that will be safe in the "nest" and they will cheat on him when they get him? For some reason I don't think this is the case, perhaps with some of them, but not the majority.

I know from my perspective, if I do get a second chance at the love I had, I will never cheat, not ever. But I also never did during my marriage, it was only the thought and fantasy and pushing it with my husband that ended my marriage.

Playboy and Penthouse are big sellers. Men like perfect women. Likewise, women like perfect men. Few of us are among the top in terms of looks or penis. It doesn't mean we all don't want the perfect specimen, but how can we all have the top 10%?

When I talk about fantasy these are the types of things I am taking about.

I could see that other women were attracted to my husband. I hear women tell me what a great man I had. This is difficult because I see it now. So, again, where is this a fantasy and where is it biological? It seems too complicated to ever know for sure.

I am far from the only woman that has discounted a great man. I read a story about a woman that did the same thing. She got out in the wold and even years later, many years later, regretted her actions. She could have had all the "dick" she wanted, but was not happy, and actually didn't want it after all.

So this is why I issue my warning. Be careful what you wish for--be careful in what you think you need.

Subd, I understand you position and feelings. I get what your are saying. But in hind site, I will take a big heart, true dedication, and true love over a big dick.

In my life, I now see this like a big house. We all dream of having it all. The big house, expensive car, the hot model wife, the big burly man, the big dick, the big tits, the perfect children, our star son as the professional athlete, the daughter that becomes the senator, we want it all. This is our society.

Recently a poll came out reflecting what college students want in a spouse. About 10% of men meet the standard the women hold and about 10% of women meet the standards men hold. This doesn't work. But this speaks volumes about what our world had become. But I have no room to talk.

My message is think before you leap. We can all say there are biological need to be with other men and be with other women. We can say there is a biological need to spread the seed and seek the cock. The problem comes in when what we seek is not real but fantasy. When we are with a great specimen and discount them for a fantasy, woman or man. Women cheat and men cheat, but best get your head on straight as to why and make sure your thinking is in check first.

You know Kim, I agree with virtually everything you say.

We are HUMAN, from the get go with all the Biology I am spewing even in Ape days, the female picks the Nest Builder first, then when you get past that there is this fantastic evolutionary trait a great number of us share (not all lol) Common Sense and lets add Emotions

Everything your saying boils down to why I particularly don't feel shame about my desires and think they are natural, being aware that a few fertile days of the month when hormones are in the right position a woman i'm with might crave some ""Alpha Male" who she wont fall in love with is like... a woman getting upset with me for having a mild Asian girl fetish it's silly. (I can't even speak Japanese lol) I mean you can understand why right i'm 6.5 for a lot of white girls a bit shy of that penultimate O, but for a Japanese girl sometimes I have BWD lol but that doesn't make a "relationship" viable

You Say:

"The guy I fantasized about wouldn't be a guy you want to have kids with"

The joys of being Human... your body, you subconscious, these parts of you aren't "rational" lol your Brain steps in you use your frontal Lobe for a second and it's like "OMG that would be a nightmare"

These Fantasies can't exist among the stupid who will just go with an emotion and desire and run amok like it is real. It ends badly, If you think a Big O means your in Love stay away rofl, I don't even want to date someone who thinks that way!!! Imagine that stress, always worried that your Mate, Your Lover can be taken by, well anyone who can make them cum harder? Might as well take it all back and if a guy he hits another guy with a club he can keep the girl lol it's a Barbaric way of thinking!

You also say:

"I do think there is an attraction to big "cocks" and "superior men."

Yup, your alive you have a body you will have desires just like men do...

And really that's all there is, that and the TRAUMA men go through when they realize this in a society that is, literally INSANE in regards to being honest about women and sexuality and sexuality in general

Wasn't it Kinsey that said " a desire that goes unfulfilled becomes an obsession" That's another place I see this whole thing going awry.

You say Men have or initiate this fantasy more than women... I'd bet the fantasy is greater on the women's side but the Obsession exists for men because women cheat the once in a blue moon they get the urge and lie about it because they don't want to be sluts.

You said: "what will these women do? Cheat? after they find the right man?

I'll say this, I have worked in health I have worked in clubs the answer to this is YES, women cheat more than men ever do, they often don't even tell their friends about it but they do, it's not like Guy cheating it's a periodic thing women are cyclical, you have what i'd call the mini urge which happens monthly and then you have the big urge the undeniable one that happens ever 3-7 years and has to do with a woman's Oxytocin cycle and that one is almost undeniable the other thing is for many women if your on the Pill that "mini urge" is kind of ever present and sort of opens the door to being in that state all the time more like a guy and probably a big part of why this subject even comes up.

But yeah, Women do cheat, not in the lecherous i'd screw anything way but in a cyclical periodic "need a break" way.

It goes back to the Obsession, women don't get Obsessed with it because they can have it, the knowing you can leaves the whole "cheating" part to for most women once a year or very few years a Woman might really, really, really NEED a night or a couple of Week with that Big Cock and like being an occasional drug user that need is fulfilled and you might not do that line of proverbial Blow again for another 2 New Years and be relatively happy

Men are more prone to get addicted, a lot of reasons for that the emotional spike is greater, the obsession that comes from not knowing or never having it happen or be a part of it or in the know, the shame...lots of addictive chemicals hitting the brain

So what I'm saying is it's not that women don't like it

They are more grounded "usually"

Let's face it some of these fantasies are insane: "I want to be 24/7 in a cock cage, be your slave, you will have other lovers and never have sex with me and you will have sex with them all week permanently while I do the chores"

Lulz

That's not a "relationship" for a woman, that's pretty std prone too... and you know can we just watch TV one night and cuddle lol?

 

[subd]

It goes back to Oxytocin

when a woman has a one night encounter with a strange man and then returns home and cuddles with her man the Oxytocin INCREASES her binding to guess who? The guy she is really with... without that part the Woman will fall out of Love or at best be in a generally Loveless and Sadistic relationship, Sadistic sex can fun a Sadistic relationship is just, Sadistic, no woman wants that, no healthy woman at least. Some Oxytocin basics LONG POST: oxytocin, libido and infidelity - Topic

Now As I said above and it hints at in that article when a woman doesn't achieve a Orgasm or lesser Orgasm then she needs Oxytocin levels can drop, but the Odd thing is if she goes out and has a sexual encounter BUT returns to her mate for intimacy the hormone is still racing through her body for quite some time, She Bonds with her mate not the guy who gave her the big O It strengthens the relationship Done Right, with Love, your hubby gets all the benefits and it really comes into play the whole "clean up scenario" or the "tell me about what happened" thing your bonding with him, after some other guy sent your oxytocin levels through the roof sexually. Without that there is nuthin.

The real issue isn't the woman most of the time. It's the guy who obsesses and freaks out and when gets it wants it all the time or in ways that are insane or just biologically wrong.

I hate to say it but real cuckolding the occasional cheating woman is the NORM of our society in successful relationships mostly because guys can't handle it, I see it all the time in well off communities where very often hardworking far from perfect but amazing guys intellectually and emotionally have "trophy wives" those women cheat sometimes but don't have true affairs and the men get all the benefits of a sexy woman full of oxytocin because she comes home to him she remains healthy and loving and energetic and he remains "in the dark" (mostly willingly) is my guess and doesn't deal with the mental crisis end

Men want this but usually they are the ones who can't actually handle it

 

[Custer Laststand]

Subd and other forum members -

When you want to reply specifically to a previous post by someone else, there's no need to hit "QUOTE" then "quote" the previous post in its entirety.

Rather, you can hit "QUOTE" then, like in a word processor, delete all of the previous post except the relevant sentence(s), making sure the sentences you want to comment on are preceded by (for example, in the case of your recent post) "(opening bracket)QUOTE=subd;263294(closing bracket)" and end with "(opening bracket)/QUOTE(closing bracket)".

Then, type in your comments.

Then, if you want to comment on additional sentences from the previous post, copy-and-paste (for example) "(opening bracket)QUOTE=subd;263294(closing bracket)" once again at the beginning of the additional sentence(s) you want to comment on, and again end those sentences with "(opening bracket)/QUOTE(closing bracket)".

Then, type in your additional comments. Etc. This eliminates the need to reproduce large blocks of text verbatim that have already been posted.

Another example:

It goes back to Oxytocin. When a woman has a one-night encounter with a "strange" man, then returns home and cuddles with her regular man, the Oxytocin INCREASES her binding to: guess who? .... etc ....

Here, I've modified your original text slightly without changing its meaning by taking advantage of the word-processor aspect of "quoting" and (obviously) deleted the rest.

—Custer

 

[Custer Laststand]

An additional procedure that's often necessary...

Addendum:

When you type a "reply" that's anything other than short and fast, before hitting the "submit reply" button COPY your whole reply just as if you were using a word processor.

That way, if the system tells you you've been timed out, you don't lose everything you've typed because it's saved on your "clipboard."

Next, hit "Cuckolds.com Forums" or "General Cuckoldry" or some other option at the top, which takes you back to a login page. Then, log in again.

Then, return to the forum and post that you were commenting on, hit "reply" once again, and quickly "copy-and-paste" your entire already-written (and saved) reply into the "reply" box. Then, once again hit the "submit reply" button at the bottom.

It's unfortunate and inconvenient that this forum does not have a "keep me logged in until I log out" option, which forces forum members to carry out all these gymnastics. For example, it was necessary for me to use this procedure for my previous post (but not for this post).

That's life in the jungle.

—Custer

 

[subd]

Yeah figured the addendum out the hard way and the whole quote is annoying as hell huh? sorry

 

[kimcarl]

Subd, again, I agree with points you bring up. I do think women cheat, as do men, and a lot of them.

Women are probably more sly, but I have also talked with a number of women where their husbands were deceptive for very long period of time, but I would agree women could very well be better at this than men.

In my case, the moment he started talking about other women was the moment I became more hostile and degrading. This was the "fantasy" again, what I read, that I must say I do not believe is mainstream--that most men want to be degraded.

I agree with you on the degree to which men and women would bond in there situations. I could see having more meaningless sex. But it scared the hell out of me that my husband would become attached to someone else if he was to see other women. And that the other women would aggressively pursue him with long-term commitment in mind.

I enjoy reading this from your perspective. We are all sexual beings. Being single and middle-aged is where men have a clear advantage. Again, think and communicate before you leap is my message.

 

[subd]

That's really interesting Kim, from my experience, Your Woman with another man can fly but You with another Woman is a giant no, no in a relationship if you want to deal with reality.

"Fantasy" places girl on girl sex as no 1 in the porn industry and it's never been dethroned to my knowledge, but what you almost never see is a guy with another woman with his wife or gf watching.

I have a feeling this goes back again to oxytocin, I would suspect that the sight of a man with another woman even when it aroses her psychologically drops her oxytocin levels like a stone and there is a lot of research being done in regards to "the dark side" of oxytocin and how it can become down right evil, the whole "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"

To be honest my last relationship, she always felt like this was all unfair insisted that "I should play too" even questioned my sexuality for the first time when I said no, BUT lol the very first time we did that, the relationship ended in under too weeks and all I could do was sit there like an idiot and say "but I told you" and Rationality wasn't even a concept I had become the Devil lol.

Rofl people might think THIS is a strange relationship type, but let me assure anyone, don't even suggest you with another woman if your a guy. The 2 women thing is such a big fantasy but my personal experience with it is A: 2 guys can fulfill one woman and in fact sometimes she can handle more than that, 1 guy and 2 women is an exercise in futility in which they only way you even get by it is if they end up with each other for satisfaction which, lulz, is just another kind of cuckolding experience anyway.

And definitely women are better at it then men, this comes back to the cuckolding thing and the biology as I see it too, the studies don't Lie virtually all me regardless of where their woman is in space time, literally she can be on Venus and if she cheats his sperm level increases, his testosterone levels go up and when she returns he is horny as shit, it rises even more if he unconsciously smells the pheremones.... you know what happens when a woman gets a sniff even unconsciously of another woman on her man? HELL that's what happens lol, and you girls sense of smell is much better than ours is. My mom for example could smell a pinch of Ganja on me from a 1/4 mile growing up.

A woman can using this Horny factor that comes about when she cheats on a man and he doesn't know to keep him intoxicated and in the dark for eternity if she wants to. A guy better be damn slick about it and even then it seems no matter how careful she always sorta suspects. the term "womans intuition" comes to mind

This brings me to another aspect of Cuckolding, while I take great offense to any question of my sexuality I can say this: I do have certain Female brain characteristics like EMPATHY for example, most men seem to live in a very deluded world from my POV, when I walk in a room I am aware of eye contact and body language and many other things, I can see a couple and know in an instant who loves the other more, what women are looking for strange etc, etc

And this applies to me, like a woman, I always know when a woman I am with likes another guy, who she is horny for when she cheats, all of it, there is no... fooling me. I've never really been able to truly lie to myself and ignore the realities the way most guys can and I suppose it comes down to "if you can't beat them join them" because the self illusion that I was the number one alpha on the block and my partner was sugar and spice and everything nice really has never existed for me

Maybe Doc should add "sensitive" to his list of common Cuck traits right next to Intelligence because I am Empathic to what people feel and it is definitely a big part of this, sometimes I feel like it;s not even my desire but rather when i'm close to a woman her desires rub off on me because I feel them and have no choice but to either get pissed or understand them and well, getting pissed get's old

 

[subd]

Has anyone ever heard of the Coolidge effect?

This article delves into it a bit among a number of other things.Your Brain on Sex | Reuniting

When I was younger and having periods of denial about my desires I slept with a couple of hundred women and I might be under exasperating (how I never got an std in those days is beyond me all young women I suppose, i'm talking the ages between 16 and 22 for the most part with the girls usually being slightly younger than me) anyway, I was definitely dealing with the Coolidge effect. The dopamine rush just wasn't there after a couple of encounters with a woman.

But, when I started playing with cuckolding for real, I could get that rush again and again from the same women, never cheat, never stray, she repeatedly could fulfill that factor for me, there is a lot too this as being healthy as I see it when done right and understood, the concept of fetishing a guy onto a single woman really works, orgasm denial learning to not achieve orgasm without Her or at the sight of her pleasure, Men use oxytocin differently for guys it's like a baby duck who imprints on whatever it sees when it's released and it's released through Orgasm, for women it's bonding and I think most people can do the math as to why this type of thing can chemically just work out for some couples, you Fetish to the sight of her and get your dopamine release from her pleasure, she bonds with you After intense orgasmic experience.

Doc says this is becoming more common

I think in a day and age of porn with a basic understanding of Sexual chemistry, women should embrace this. Men are addictive sexual creatures, I certainly am, Porn related ED is very common these days, i'm not saying Porn is bad, I'm saying it's use should be controlled by the Woman and even used by her so that the Fetish becomes associated with her or a shitty sex life will ensue in most households, if men are sexually visual and easily fetish-ed then why not utilize it so that he fetishes on your pleasure?

It's not like a guy can leave the house or watch tv without intense stimulation from the media and society even if a guy quits porn your still in severe competition from his fetishes, what's wrong with a little orgasm control, whats wrong with naturally pumping those dopamine levels up by creating some faux competition for him while at the same time being sexually fulfilled greatly yourself?

The big mistake I always read about in these forums is NOT bonding after the fact "she left for him" is always accompanied by she spent the weekend with him, she spent more time with him than me, and usually it's the guys fault.

 

[Custer Laststand]

Has anyone ever heard of the Coolidge effect?

Yes. It's quite funny...

 

[subd]

Almost sums it all up by itself, New partner = very horny, same ol partner = not so horny. Kind of feels like it explains all porn. Just people don't want to admit it or deal with it.

 

[Doc in Cleveland]

..

It's been a while since I have had anything productive to add to these forums. I try to post only when I have something to say.

I had an experience last week, an extensive experience, that I thought members here might find readable if not enlightening.

I attended a symposium of colleagues on the west coast of The States and discussed a variety of topics, one of which was cuckolding. As I was sharing anecdotal accounts of cuckolding actions and behavior I found many, many other therapists willing to expound on situations they have observed in therapy.

I thought I would convey a few of these here as a collection of real world stories of actual cuckolding behavior. Again, I am always amazed that real behavior always surpasses imagination.

The most vivid account was the one that stuck with me the most. It would seem the bull in this certain relationship was a very active participant in demonstrating his dominance over the cuckold. Furthermore, there was an intimate relationship with the wife and bull that extended beyond sex. The wife had taken it upon herself, through sheer guilt it was reported, to explore why her husband craved this action .. an involved amateur diagnosis, if you will. She and the bull determined that the husband was gay but could not express it. (!)

The bull had a social relationship with a gay man and indulged the particular details on the sex acts between the three. The gay man agreed to the bull's invitation in to the relationship.

The therapist relating this account then went on a long diversion on the motivations of the gay male that is not relevant here. He expounded on the ultimate prize for a gay male is the straight male. Your mileage may vary on that one.

Be that as it may, this particular relationship enjoyed the use of some bondage and toys. So, when arriving the next time to take the wife on a date, the gay male accompanied the bull to the apartment. After introductions and some preliminaries, both the gay male and the cuckold were commanded to strip their clothing and they were led to the bedroom. At that point, the gay male was instructed to lay on top of the cuckold face-to-face. The wife and the bull then used two pairs of handcuffs to attach the two together at the wrists. They then left on an extended date of several hours.

The acts reported by the cuckold were extensive and spilled over in to ****** intimacy in the bathroom, as well.

I found this whole situation extraordinary and thought the folks here might enjoy hearing about it.

I have extensive notes from the symposium and some findings of my own after hearing these accounts. Should the members here show interest in this line of behavior, I will convey the details here in hopes of helping others feel more natural in their desires.

Doc

..

 

[Custer Laststand]

Interesting. There's a recent article relevant to this...

Doc,

Thanks for your interesting post. Re.:

.... [The wife of a cuckold] and her bull [decided her cuckold] husband was gay but could not express it. .... The bull had a social relationship with a gay man. .... The gay man agreed to the bull's invitation [to verify his and his cuckoldress lover's theory by seducing the potentially-gay cuckold].

And:

.... So, when the bull arrived at their apartment the next time to take the wife on a date, he was accompanied by the gay male. After introductions and some preliminaries, both the gay male and the cuckold were commanded to strip their clothing then they were led to the bedroom. At that point, the gay male was instructed to lay on top of the cuckold face-to-face. The wife and the bull then handcuffed the two together at the wrists. They then left on an extended date of several hours. [While they were gone, the gay] acts reported by the cuckold were extensive and spilled over to include ****** intimacy in the bathroom, as well.

And:

I found this whole situation extraordinary and thought the folks here might enjoy hearing about it.

Yes, that's very interesting. It's common in this forum for a cuckold to secretly want to be sexually humiliated by the bull who is fucking his wife, but to be fearful that if he sucks the bulls cock or if the bull fucks him anally in front of his wife, that will label him as "gay" and result in his wife viewing him as such. He's fearful of that, so he seeks opinions from forum members as to whether that would mean he "is or is not" gay.

An article that appeared recently in the New York Times online is (in my opinion) relevant to this phenomenon. See:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/homophobic-maybe-youre-gay.html?_r=1&hp

—Custer

 

[subd]

Wasn't it Kinsey who said something to the effect of "a desire repressed becomes an obsession" ?

I had an experience recently not the first surely not the last, I was casting roles for a small movie and I made a simple remark..."he's beautiful" and several guys gave me that look that says "Fag" lol obviously very uncomfortable with the remark.

Some days it seems to me as if heterosexual males are the new ostracized sexuality, when I look outside I see men who are completely de-sexualized, baggy clothes, no cologne, in some circles like the movie idiocracy simply peaking intellectually get's you the label "Fag"

Personally, I don't care of a guy wears panties, like anal play enjoys eating his girl out after sex with other men etc etc et al, none of that speak "gay" to me.

What does speak "gay" to me is Kissing, cuddling, long looks in the eye, being able to fall in love

I had an experience over a decade ago of going to jail for a dui for 2 weeks, no one in there was doing more than 60 days yet some guys got busy er "dominating" smaller guys they even had terms for each other "dog" were those guys "gay", I don't think so I think they are just following older natural instincts most Male mammals dominate and submit a certain way

This is of course my humble opinion, but what i think the "real" here is, is the first line up top from Kinsey Obsession developed from repression of natural curiosities or urges, in todays day and age it's safe to be Gay if your Gay, there is a ton of support, life is easier in many ways, no children, no alimony, no child support, sex is as easy if your gay to come by as it is if your a woman. (Don't get me wrong) I know there are plenty of men do to a wide variety of circumstances who would stay in the closet still but I don't think that's the "norm" of men into this fetish

what i think it is, is fear of rejection by women that these are mostly heterosexual men who are terrified of admitting any attraction whatsoever for fear of being LABELED Gay and thus be unable to find heterosexual relationships, guys who simply started with ordinary curiosities and are literally terrified of admitting them but certainly not "Gay" but definition of Loving me, wanting relationships with men.

I think the problem in this whole debate is that we define "Gay" by sex acts not by Love interests and in our bizarre repressed society for a heterosexual male to simply even admit another man is good looking is cause for social despair from both men and women.

As I see it if you masturbate a man gets you off every time, it's almost insane to judge a person by such things and call it gender preference

I define myself as heterosexual. Why? because I can never KISS a man. In some of my work i'm surrounded by homosexuals at times and Love is apparent when it's there, this isn't the case for most cuckolds.

Doc

As a fair question, being a Psychologist most men who come to you are seeking therapy, they are "troubled" by their sexuality or someone is. Wouldn't it be fair to say that this isn't the optimal study group for the perspective on most men into the cuckolding Fetish? That the number of latent homosexuals would likely be significantly higher than the "cuckold" population at large? When you are "surprised" at how these men go to extremes even beyond what you read in fantasy that you should expect that as these are men who have developed this into a "problem" people who perhaps in their behaviors are having breaks with reality and what is feasible in a real relationship? Identity crisis or worse?

To me while fascinating I highly doubt the example of the patient above is even remotely close to the normal cuckold fetishists reality or even a remotely fair example of a typical cuckold and I can't see how a group of psychologists can create any sort of basis in the reality of "most" people, it's simply not a valid study group. For example, BDSM is very popular, handcuffs are very common sex play toys, big sellers. A person who might "seek help" however may be someone who is into Bdsm who wants to be stabbed in the face lol... One is a cross section of relatively healthy adults and their fetishes who are comfortable with them and rooted in reality and the other is a group of at best border line individuals

All i'm saying is, I don't know your "patients" are actually a good representative sampling of cuckolds, these are actions that to me whatever the sexuality is are indicative of people who are on the cusp of mental illness, being handcuffed to a gay ****** just isn't a good idea i rl practice lol

 

[Doc in Cleveland]

..

subd .. I think you misread my post. I did not treat the patient that I cited. This was circumstances conveyed to me at a symposium. And I certainly would not characterize the gay male as a ******. That's patently unfair. In addition, you have presented opinions based upon misinformation or flat out wrong mislabels. You characterize these individuals as "borderline individuals" and "on the cusp of mental illness". I would hazard a guess that you are in no position to make that diagnosis and slap a convenient label on them for sexual activity that clearly troubles you .. for whatever reason you may have.

Labels are a dangerous thing and you have to watch throwing them around. They provide faulty shelter to some while pigeon holing others. Tread lightly.

I never expressed that the actions contained herein represent typical cuckold behavior and any reply that pushes these comments in to that category are simply wrongheaded and miss my point. Furthermore, let me express that I never stated that patients come to me in conflict of their sexual identity. I find, like so much I see on the Internet, vile hatred spewed forth in a negative manner never helps people. Other than the poster themselves, perhaps. So, I wanted to clear the palette and flush those comments before I moved on. Realize those are not my words or my position.

Mac .. when discussing this to a geographically broad cross section of therapists, kissing is identified as a real borderline. In that same vein, I had some interesting discussions on where "swinging" stops and "cuckolding" begins. It is my belief and opinion that in your case you are much more of a swinger .. I think you have expressed that yourself. The cuckolding line is crossed when real emotions become involved. There's snares and entanglements that get in to a very sticky area when these become involved. Kissing is a borderline that is marked not only for cuckolding but involved homosexual activity, as well. Latent homosexuality exists in all human males and some struggle with this. I've been involved in four hour discussions on the reason that latent homosexuality is in the human psyche and the proper use of it in treatment. So, as that conflict boils in you .. understand that it is natural and not to be feared. It is a part of who you are as a male.

I have quite a few other instances that I will express here if the interest is warranted but this next one I have written down is unique and I thought I would solicit it for opinion. It was certainly one for a lively discussion at the symposium.

A cuckoldress, of particular intensity I would suppose, would eventually guide her bull to being topped by a male. Not the cuckold, he had a very defined role. But it was the desire of this woman to not only cuckold her husband but once he established Alpha dominance over her husband, to then see that Alpha toppled in front of her.

When the expanded details were provided, this group of therapists gathered made me chuckle. Have you ever seen the movie "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure" with Keanu Reeves? Remember when Keanu says to Socrates "All we are is Dust in the Wind?", quoting the old Kansas song? And it *FLIPS* Socrates out and he wrings his hands and goes "oooooh". Well, that was these therapists when this was expressed. It was just like that movie and made me smile to myself.

And then the discussion become quite involved.

It's funny how therapists can go much deeper than they really need to.

And it was amusing to hear these pack of dogs chew on that bone.

Doc

..

 

[Custer Laststand]

Exclusive homosexuality (relatively rare) vs. bisexuality (much more common)...

Doc,

No doubt you’re aware of the following, but I’m passing it along on the chance it may be of interest to cuckolded forum members who are secretly attracted to the idea of sexual interaction with their wive’s lovers, but fear (also secretly) that may cause their wives and their bulls to view them as “gay.”

Most likely, they are not “gay.” More likely… actually, much more likely… they are bisexual.

Baker — in Chapt. 10, "One Way or Another," pp. 235-310 — in:

Baker, Robin, Ph.D., 1996, "Sperm Wars: The Science of Sex"

presents interesting information on this. He states: "Men who are attracted to other men do still reproduce — and on the whole, they reproduce very successfully. On average, every person who reads this book will have had within the past 5 generations — in other words, since about 1875 — a male ancestor who practiced homosexuality. This does not mean that we have all inherited a predisposition for homosexual behavior. Some have, as we shall see, but only a minority. Nevertheless, it does mean that none of us would be the person we are today if one of our ancestors had not shown homosexual behavior — and reproduced." ….

.... "In the United States and Europe, for example, only about 6% of men experience any homosexual contact during their lifetimes, most often during adolescence. For two-thirds of those men [about 4% of the male population at large], that contact is intimate and genital, often involving anal intercourse." ....

…. "The vast majority (80%) of men who have sex with other men also have sex with women." .... "Fewer than 1% of men [in the male population at large] are exclusive homosexuals." ....

Baker also states, interestingly: "There is now convincing evidence that homosexual behavior is inherited. And genetic inheritance is more often via the mother than the father: that is, men with homosexual inclinations are much more likely to have uncles and cousins with similar inclinations on their mother's side than on their father's."

Baker, who is an evolutionary biologist, points out that ~4% of the male population at large being bisexual is much larger than the percentage that would occur if that did not have some evolutionary advantage. He describes what that is. Typically, a bisexual man becomes sexually active earlier in life than a straight man, often as a result of being introduced to sex (so to speak) during childhood by a male relative. As a consequence, he typically acquires greater sexual expertise and facility earlier in his life than a straight man, and thus seduces younger women and sires children earlier in his life than a straight man — although on average, a bisexual man tends not to sire more children in total than a straight man.

In other words, bisexual men siring children earlier in life than straight men (on average) results in the generations being more closely-spaced in age — more compressed, as it were — for bisexual men than for straight men. Hence, given the genetic nature of bisexuality, they constitute a larger percentage of the population than would otherwise be the case.

While bisexuality has an evolutionary advantage, Baker points out that it also has a disadvantage. It is that bisexual men typically die younger than straight men, for 2 reasons. One is, they're more likely than straight men to acquire a fatal sexually-transmitted disease (STD). The other is, there's a substantial probability they'll die young from violence at the hands of other men who are homophobic (some or many of whom may be struggling to suppress their own bisexual urges, per the article at the link I furnished in my previous post).

For the less than 1% of the male population at large who are exclusive homosexuals (meaning, they never have sex with women and thus don't reproduce), there is no evolutionary advantage. Baker doesn't say this, but I speculate that exclusive homosexuals persist from one generation to the next because of random variations in the human genome. That is, when a woman and a man have a child, the child's DNA is not a "pure" combination of the DNA of her/his mother and father. Rather, there are some random variations.

According to Baker (1996), a similar percentage of the female population at large is lesbian but the percentage is less by about 1 percentage point. He doesn't say much about the percentage of lesbians who, in reality, are bisexual — maybe the surveys necessary to differentiate that hadn't been done at the time he wrote his book. My guess would be, the above is more-or-less symmetrical with respect to women (but I don’t know that).

—Custer

 

[Doc in Cleveland]

..

Very insightful, Custer. Thank you for your input.

Along with the previous situation, here's another situation that I felt was significant:

In a cuckold relationship in midlands Texas, it was reported that the female only allowed the cuckolded male an orgasm in public places. A park, a public bathroom, a movie theater, etc.

I thought some here would find that interesting.

Also, I picked up a term I thought informative. When a boyfriend and a wife make love in the marital bed, and the husband is ****** to sleep in that wet spot created by the bull, this is called "mudding".

I had not heard that.

Doc

..

 

[duke9555]

Mudding is when a white person has sex with a
black person .....Nostalgie de le boue