Psychology of a Cuckold
- Thread starterDoc in Cleveland
- Start date
..
He's over the rainbow, pinky.
During his fiancee's cycle (she said "Yes"!), he wants to satisfy the bull's desire for penetration by begging for him to use him for anal sex. But .. and oh boy here .. he believes only his wife should receive the bull's sperm so he asks that the bull only urinate inside him.
Three or four months ago, I guess the bull was not able or .. I don't know .. so he brings in these papers from a local emergency room. It would seem the bull came inside him. So, he rushed right to the emergency room and, from the ER report, demanded a full medical enema. There must have been a lot of cum in there because the ER Physician ordered a battery of sexual disease testing. So, I guess he's clean from various perspectives.
His fiancee is just as bad in this. She takes advantage of the situation. Pushes him in this direction, manipulates him.
Back in the summer, `she brought a gay young man home from work. I guess they had discussed this prior because I only get the patient's narrative. Well, the bull shows up and they are going out to a dinner and a show. So, she demands that her cuckold strip in front of everyone and then for the young gay man to do the same. Then, they lead them in to the bedroom and have the cuckold lay on his back on the bed. Then the gay man to lay on top of him face-to-face. Then, she demands both of their arms to be outstretched. And then she handcuffs theirs wrists together with two sets of handcuffs. AND THEN SHE LEAVES WITH THE BULL!
In other social circumstances, though .. he is the ultimate alpha male. He holds a very prestigious law enforcement post here locally.
Everytime I see him on my calendar in the morning, I wonder all day long what strange levels he will achieve this week.
Doc
..
He's over the rainbow, pinky.
During his fiancee's cycle (she said "Yes"!), he wants to satisfy the bull's desire for penetration by begging for him to use him for anal sex. But .. and oh boy here .. he believes only his wife should receive the bull's sperm so he asks that the bull only urinate inside him.
Three or four months ago, I guess the bull was not able or .. I don't know .. so he brings in these papers from a local emergency room. It would seem the bull came inside him. So, he rushed right to the emergency room and, from the ER report, demanded a full medical enema. There must have been a lot of cum in there because the ER Physician ordered a battery of sexual disease testing. So, I guess he's clean from various perspectives.
His fiancee is just as bad in this. She takes advantage of the situation. Pushes him in this direction, manipulates him.
Back in the summer, `she brought a gay young man home from work. I guess they had discussed this prior because I only get the patient's narrative. Well, the bull shows up and they are going out to a dinner and a show. So, she demands that her cuckold strip in front of everyone and then for the young gay man to do the same. Then, they lead them in to the bedroom and have the cuckold lay on his back on the bed. Then the gay man to lay on top of him face-to-face. Then, she demands both of their arms to be outstretched. And then she handcuffs theirs wrists together with two sets of handcuffs. AND THEN SHE LEAVES WITH THE BULL!
In other social circumstances, though .. he is the ultimate alpha male. He holds a very prestigious law enforcement post here locally.
Everytime I see him on my calendar in the morning, I wonder all day long what strange levels he will achieve this week.
Doc
..
Took me more than a month(in intervals) to go through this big ass thread and WOW, its got everything i'm into and not 
Hey, I'm just a 29 yr old Indian wannabe cuck whos been around here on this site for less than 2 years. Hope to learn and get as much as i can from you guys.
Custer - I'll be reposting my thread soon, please dont hesitate to drop a 'few' lines.
This thread sure has a lot to offer from cuckolding to psych, mind to super ego, emasculation to addiction, docs to scientists, heated arguments to comic reliefs, long posts to one liners, evolution to creation, and much more.
You guys are great and thanks for making it fun. It was great reading some of the best and most active users on this fourms:
Mac
Custer
Doc
Pinky
SubD
KingDavid
Angevin
Mickel
LadySniffer
MP
Shidave
S'Slave
Slinky
Cuckold64
Thanks for illuminating.
From this day on, will try to contribute as much as i can.
- Kama
Hey, I'm just a 29 yr old Indian wannabe cuck whos been around here on this site for less than 2 years. Hope to learn and get as much as i can from you guys.
Custer - I'll be reposting my thread soon, please dont hesitate to drop a 'few' lines.
This thread sure has a lot to offer from cuckolding to psych, mind to super ego, emasculation to addiction, docs to scientists, heated arguments to comic reliefs, long posts to one liners, evolution to creation, and much more.
You guys are great and thanks for making it fun. It was great reading some of the best and most active users on this fourms:
Mac
Custer
Doc
Pinky
SubD
KingDavid
Angevin
Mickel
LadySniffer
MP
Shidave
S'Slave
Slinky
Cuckold64
Thanks for illuminating.
From this day on, will try to contribute as much as i can.
- Kama
Doc,
Re.:
and:
I notice you haven't mentioned your response. After "pausing for half a heartbeat," did you "feel terrible about it later" because you accepted? Or, did you "feel terrible about it later" because you "paused for half a heartbeat" before declining?
If the latter (and, if the former — although perhaps later still), I suppose it occurred to you that you would be opening yourself to the possibility of a massive malpractice lawsuit if you accepted... which your "over the rainbow" patient might conceivably decide to file later, if you began fucking his wife in accordance with his fantasies, but later it turned out not in accordance with his fantasies.
His wife, as I suppose you appreciate, would have to be viewed as a wild card. As you know well, it's difficult, at best, to predict the future behavior of someone you think you know (your patient). Thus, it's "difficult-squared," at best, to predict the future behaviors of your patient combined with someone you don't know (his wife) who has — in a feedback sense — a coupled relationship with him.
Re.:
Doc in Cleveland said:
and:
Doc in Cleveland said:
I notice you haven't mentioned your response. After "pausing for half a heartbeat," did you "feel terrible about it later" because you accepted? Or, did you "feel terrible about it later" because you "paused for half a heartbeat" before declining?
If the latter (and, if the former — although perhaps later still), I suppose it occurred to you that you would be opening yourself to the possibility of a massive malpractice lawsuit if you accepted... which your "over the rainbow" patient might conceivably decide to file later, if you began fucking his wife in accordance with his fantasies, but later it turned out not in accordance with his fantasies.
His wife, as I suppose you appreciate, would have to be viewed as a wild card. As you know well, it's difficult, at best, to predict the future behavior of someone you think you know (your patient). Thus, it's "difficult-squared," at best, to predict the future behaviors of your patient combined with someone you don't know (his wife) who has — in a feedback sense — a coupled relationship with him.
..
Yeah, Custer. It was because for a second I thought about doing it.
That's completely verboten from the moral perspective of an analyst. The legal perspective is something else entirely. That's so dangerous you don't even go near it.
However, like school teachers, there are therapists who do that kinda stuff. We gossip about it at conventions and snicker like school children at crazy situations other therapists get themselves in to. Humans being human, I suppose.
The thing that disturbs me most about this patient is his stated desire to die. He truly, literally, yearns to suffocate to death under his wife's vagina. He reports that she facesits him after a love making session with the bull.
I can rationalize the other acts, put them in to various analytic boxes, but this repeated expression of the desire to suffocate to death .. I'm wavering on whether to intervene. Simply because of the wife, really. He desires more intense cuckold situations and she always takes it a step farther.
Previously, the wife had him restrained (both arms and legs) and during the wife's love making session with the bull she demanded that the bull face fuck the cuckold (sorry for the profanity, it cuts through and is efficient in description). Well, I'm not entirely sure she didn't know that he had a head cold. The bull got a little heated and elongated while cramming his penis down the throat of the cuckold and he could not breathe through his nose. He lost oxygen and **********. He reported that he came to as they laughed and laughed at him.
Very revealing in that the patient reported this as being terrifying. He has stated that he wishes "Death By Vagina" in his suffocation death.
That, in a small part .. or maybe it's just a rationalization on my part .. I don't know .. was behind the half a heartbeat pause.
Seeing this patient always causes me to be uncomfortable.
Doc
..
Yeah, Custer. It was because for a second I thought about doing it.
That's completely verboten from the moral perspective of an analyst. The legal perspective is something else entirely. That's so dangerous you don't even go near it.
However, like school teachers, there are therapists who do that kinda stuff. We gossip about it at conventions and snicker like school children at crazy situations other therapists get themselves in to. Humans being human, I suppose.
The thing that disturbs me most about this patient is his stated desire to die. He truly, literally, yearns to suffocate to death under his wife's vagina. He reports that she facesits him after a love making session with the bull.
I can rationalize the other acts, put them in to various analytic boxes, but this repeated expression of the desire to suffocate to death .. I'm wavering on whether to intervene. Simply because of the wife, really. He desires more intense cuckold situations and she always takes it a step farther.
Previously, the wife had him restrained (both arms and legs) and during the wife's love making session with the bull she demanded that the bull face fuck the cuckold (sorry for the profanity, it cuts through and is efficient in description). Well, I'm not entirely sure she didn't know that he had a head cold. The bull got a little heated and elongated while cramming his penis down the throat of the cuckold and he could not breathe through his nose. He lost oxygen and **********. He reported that he came to as they laughed and laughed at him.
Very revealing in that the patient reported this as being terrifying. He has stated that he wishes "Death By Vagina" in his suffocation death.
That, in a small part .. or maybe it's just a rationalization on my part .. I don't know .. was behind the half a heartbeat pause.
Seeing this patient always causes me to be uncomfortable.
Doc
..
Doc,
Re.:
and:
and:
It sounds like your patient you've been describing is the local chief of police or something roughly equivalent. If so... to state the obvious... he's in an incredibly stressful job. Every day he's under the media microscope, and his performance is also scrutinized on a daily basis by political higher-ups. And every day (as you said, in effect), he must pretend, convincingly, to be the most macho man in town.
From your comments, it sounds like he "escapes" this intense daily pressure by becoming his wife's helpless cuckold when he's at home, submitting to her being his boss and needing her... indeed, insisting... she subject him to ongoing sexual humiliation. And, the nature of her personality (as you also mentioned) is such that she's fully cooperative.
But, if he repeatedly expresses a desire for death that suggests his escape mechanism isn't adequate. His wish for "death by vagina" sounds unique, I must say, and in a way unserious. But, when he realizes he's unlikely to succeed because his wife's cooperation will always stop somewhere short of that, he may adopt a more conventional alternative — and it may be highly effective.
In other words, I suggest it may be most appropriate to view your patient as potentially heading toward suicide, and that being the principle problem you're confronting. His unusual sexual fetishes (being cuckolded and humiliated by his wife, etc) are closely related to his underlying problem, but your principle task... if the above is what's happening... is not merely to help him understand and adapt to his fetishes. Rather, it is to save his life. If he's telling you repeatedly he wants to die (even if in a rather odd way), he's telling you he desperately needs help.
Do you and the other psychologists in your practice meet periodically... say, once a week... to discuss your most serious cases, and get feedback from each other on how to proceed? If so, I suspect your "law enforcement patient" should be at or near the top of your priority list for serious cases. If not, you might suggest to your colleagues beginning weekly meetings for this purpose... particularly since (as you mentioned a while back) a recent suicide among the patients all of you are dealing with was devastating for all of you.
Really... maybe you always secretly suspect he'll arrest you if he's displeased with his therapy.
—Custer
Re.:
Doc in Cleveland said:
and:
Doc in Cleveland said:
and:
Doc in Cleveland said:
It sounds like your patient you've been describing is the local chief of police or something roughly equivalent. If so... to state the obvious... he's in an incredibly stressful job. Every day he's under the media microscope, and his performance is also scrutinized on a daily basis by political higher-ups. And every day (as you said, in effect), he must pretend, convincingly, to be the most macho man in town.
From your comments, it sounds like he "escapes" this intense daily pressure by becoming his wife's helpless cuckold when he's at home, submitting to her being his boss and needing her... indeed, insisting... she subject him to ongoing sexual humiliation. And, the nature of her personality (as you also mentioned) is such that she's fully cooperative.
But, if he repeatedly expresses a desire for death that suggests his escape mechanism isn't adequate. His wish for "death by vagina" sounds unique, I must say, and in a way unserious. But, when he realizes he's unlikely to succeed because his wife's cooperation will always stop somewhere short of that, he may adopt a more conventional alternative — and it may be highly effective.
In other words, I suggest it may be most appropriate to view your patient as potentially heading toward suicide, and that being the principle problem you're confronting. His unusual sexual fetishes (being cuckolded and humiliated by his wife, etc) are closely related to his underlying problem, but your principle task... if the above is what's happening... is not merely to help him understand and adapt to his fetishes. Rather, it is to save his life. If he's telling you repeatedly he wants to die (even if in a rather odd way), he's telling you he desperately needs help.
Do you and the other psychologists in your practice meet periodically... say, once a week... to discuss your most serious cases, and get feedback from each other on how to proceed? If so, I suspect your "law enforcement patient" should be at or near the top of your priority list for serious cases. If not, you might suggest to your colleagues beginning weekly meetings for this purpose... particularly since (as you mentioned a while back) a recent suicide among the patients all of you are dealing with was devastating for all of you.
Doc in Cleveland said:
Really... maybe you always secretly suspect he'll arrest you if he's displeased with his therapy.
—Custer
..
Yes, you've hit it right on the head, Custer. Unfortunately, in my line of work, any mention of suicide is very serious. There are exacting, strict guidelines when such a statement is made in therapy and you must follow, precisely, every individual step. As you probably already know, it is a very small percentage that actually have a desire to harm themselves. The list of motivations for such a declaration is exhaustingly expansive. If any person here is currently in therapy, please only broach this subject if you are truly, deeply serious. It is the most dangerous statement that can be made from a patient to a doctor and we take it to a very high level of consideration and it will rule our actions towards your treatment from that point forward.
Then, Custer .. you have my personal situation. My mother committed suicide when I was 14. Of course you try to be entirely cold and completely somber at any mention of this. In my case, every single time .. even to this day .. this sends a vivid chill through my soul.
Currently, I am approaching this case from two perspectives:
This was not a "pure" suicide plea. It would require the action of another; specifically in this case, the wife
The second angle is the complete annihilation of self-esteem in this patient. Very telling.
The second point is the basis on why cuckolding is dismissed by some of my colleagues. Their opinion skews towards cuckolding being a masking agent for something entirely different. And, therefore, it can be treated with psychoanalysis or prescription.
In short, they believe a cuckold can be "cured" by solving this hidden affliction.
I differ in my professional opinion. I would hazard a guess that the equivalent ratio of therapists also believe "gay" can be cured.
I wish I had the financial backing to do deep research to cull data and present evidence or findings that cuckolding is a valid, stand-alone condition. I feel this would be groundbreaking and very useful in the future of medicine as we continue to see the spread of this.
Doc
..
Custer Laststand said:
Yes, you've hit it right on the head, Custer. Unfortunately, in my line of work, any mention of suicide is very serious. There are exacting, strict guidelines when such a statement is made in therapy and you must follow, precisely, every individual step. As you probably already know, it is a very small percentage that actually have a desire to harm themselves. The list of motivations for such a declaration is exhaustingly expansive. If any person here is currently in therapy, please only broach this subject if you are truly, deeply serious. It is the most dangerous statement that can be made from a patient to a doctor and we take it to a very high level of consideration and it will rule our actions towards your treatment from that point forward.
Then, Custer .. you have my personal situation. My mother committed suicide when I was 14. Of course you try to be entirely cold and completely somber at any mention of this. In my case, every single time .. even to this day .. this sends a vivid chill through my soul.
Currently, I am approaching this case from two perspectives:
This was not a "pure" suicide plea. It would require the action of another; specifically in this case, the wife
The second angle is the complete annihilation of self-esteem in this patient. Very telling.
The second point is the basis on why cuckolding is dismissed by some of my colleagues. Their opinion skews towards cuckolding being a masking agent for something entirely different. And, therefore, it can be treated with psychoanalysis or prescription.
In short, they believe a cuckold can be "cured" by solving this hidden affliction.
I differ in my professional opinion. I would hazard a guess that the equivalent ratio of therapists also believe "gay" can be cured.
I wish I had the financial backing to do deep research to cull data and present evidence or findings that cuckolding is a valid, stand-alone condition. I feel this would be groundbreaking and very useful in the future of medicine as we continue to see the spread of this.
Doc
..
S
subd
Guest
Doc in Cleveland said:
A desire to be cuckolded can never be cured lol, at least imho, I come at this from a biological perspective so of course that's my opinion.
These "symptoms" however can be and should be addressed i'm not a professional psychologist but I hear all sorts of things in this guys story and some of them i'd wager come from a deep inner hatred of self from not accepting these desires and dealing with them.
I personally think a lot of guys I read on have real issues of guilt and frustration and shame from a fantasy that is totally unacceptable in daily life and probably often unfulfilled.
Most men can't accept or rather society will not allow them to accept the nature of a woman's sexuality in the first place let alone this.
It compares to the plight of the homosexual man in the pre Kinsey days I suspect, i'd be interested in the number of suicides yearly within this realm myself to be honest.
S
subd
Guest
subhubjon said:
This is sort of interesting to me, in a round about way the story is the same for me except I was even younger. But you use the word "inferior" I seriously don't think I have ever in my life related that thought, the first thought yea "pleasure derived from seeing" but "inferior"? No, I kind of always saw it the same way I looked at fighting, I can fight, I can learn to be damn good at it but there will always be someone tougher and it doesn't really affect my ego like that, I think in most of society men and women got over the whole "a guy needs to be super tough and tougher than all other guys" thing about when wolves stopped killing you in your front yard a couple hundred years back and that it's just a short time since women have sexual freedom and we kind of as a society are still trapped into a stupid unrealistic way of seeing things.
I kind of think of myself as superior to be truthful about it, like I live in the real world where women can be sexual and are in fact sexually superior to us in many ways, orgasm capacity and so on.
I have explained some of my thoughts on the biology of this too, the constant debate of gay vs Straight annoys me sometimes, to me this is all really very natural dominance and submissive stuff that can come through sometimes and men also happen to be very visually oriented, we fetish and pick up cues and they get embedded and we live in a world of porn where we are going to see guys with freakish cocks the kind of cocks that if your honest you know at heart most women would need a lot of human self control to say no to and the same way we as guys leer at a very ******* hot women, well they are the same and I don't feel any loss of self esteem from the fact of it.
In a way, I think any guy that watches porn is a kind of a cuckold your watching other men screw women you'd love to screw and can't usually with bigger dicks than your own
So really who isn't a cuckold in one way or another? the biggest psychological aspect to it is denial which most men in a modern world live in and trauma because it kind of fly's in the face of the nonsense your led to believe or expect.
But really who's not a "cuckold" who gets to marry a virgin these days? Other men have had your wife, does a distance in time matter? 8 days? 2 years? 20 minutes? Is any guy not voyeuristic? How many men watch porn?
Particularly in America, any woman can screw who ever she wants, unless your a porn star she has had bigger than you at some point, what can any guy do about it, try and so much as stop her from leaving the house your going to jail lol. So who isn't a Cuckold really?
People say we are at war in the Mideast for oil or whatever, I say the wars are really about this, to them we are a Female dominated society, we are all Cuckolds from an outside perspective and they want no part of giving up their Male dominated society.
..
subd .. those were some very incisive and interesting comments. I hope you continue to contribute to this thread.
Just a couple very short comments from me on what you expressed:
Not only how many suicides come from this but homicides, as well. I showed my esteemed colleague, Mac, where there was a cuckolding situation near here (about 45 miles) where the guy just couldn't deal with it and shot what we call "The Bull". Shot the guy. Killed him. This is a side to this that goes blowing by logic and circumstance here.
i.e., Dudes get shot for fucking other men's wives. That shit happens. A lot.
The first time this subject was ever broached in therapy that was my knee jerk reaction. That somebody is going to use this to set somebody up and .. well, you take it from there. Before gunpowder, I could see this as natural. Today .. ehh .. you know, pick yourself up some laundry detergent, a GI Joe with a Kung-Fu grip and a .45 sidearm at your local Wal-Mart and at that point, anything's possible.
That's what we saw here locally. The cuckold might have had a little teeny weeny. But his aim was damn straight and true. End of story.
So, not just suicides, subd, but homicides, as well.
Lastly .. I'd disagree with you about the Middle East. But any discussion on the Middle East is insane to even start. Any discussion about the Middle East on the Internet is beyond the realms of ludicrous.
But I sure enjoyed reading your expression of your opinion. Please, be a regular contributor.
Doc
..
subd .. those were some very incisive and interesting comments. I hope you continue to contribute to this thread.
Just a couple very short comments from me on what you expressed:
Not only how many suicides come from this but homicides, as well. I showed my esteemed colleague, Mac, where there was a cuckolding situation near here (about 45 miles) where the guy just couldn't deal with it and shot what we call "The Bull". Shot the guy. Killed him. This is a side to this that goes blowing by logic and circumstance here.
i.e., Dudes get shot for fucking other men's wives. That shit happens. A lot.
The first time this subject was ever broached in therapy that was my knee jerk reaction. That somebody is going to use this to set somebody up and .. well, you take it from there. Before gunpowder, I could see this as natural. Today .. ehh .. you know, pick yourself up some laundry detergent, a GI Joe with a Kung-Fu grip and a .45 sidearm at your local Wal-Mart and at that point, anything's possible.
That's what we saw here locally. The cuckold might have had a little teeny weeny. But his aim was damn straight and true. End of story.
So, not just suicides, subd, but homicides, as well.
Lastly .. I'd disagree with you about the Middle East. But any discussion on the Middle East is insane to even start. Any discussion about the Middle East on the Internet is beyond the realms of ludicrous.
But I sure enjoyed reading your expression of your opinion. Please, be a regular contributor.
Doc
..
H
Hank jones
Guest
Sigh. 27 pages?
It's like trying to start a show in the 10th season
Do I need to read from page one or can I skip some andbe up to speed?
Hank
Oh and
Hi I'm hank,
My wife and I have an agreement 'never without permission' or I say 'honey I just want to know youre safe and some details.'
I've got a thread I've touched on some of my past.
It's like trying to start a show in the 10th season
Do I need to read from page one or can I skip some andbe up to speed?
Hank
Oh and
Hi I'm hank,
My wife and I have an agreement 'never without permission' or I say 'honey I just want to know youre safe and some details.'
I've got a thread I've touched on some of my past.
..
Yeah, Hank .. that's a tough learning curve there, 27 pages. Sorry 'bout that. All I can tell ya is if it was boring and didn't interest people we wouldn't have six times the page views of any thread currently on the front page.
So .. there's something here that is relating to people on some level. At least that is my hope.
I would start a new thread but I kinda want Google to archive this for the future. Maybe we can help somebody .. not now .. but maybe three years from now.
Like I said, one can only hope.
Thanks for joining the thread, Hank.
Doc
..
Yeah, Hank .. that's a tough learning curve there, 27 pages. Sorry 'bout that. All I can tell ya is if it was boring and didn't interest people we wouldn't have six times the page views of any thread currently on the front page.
So .. there's something here that is relating to people on some level. At least that is my hope.
I would start a new thread but I kinda want Google to archive this for the future. Maybe we can help somebody .. not now .. but maybe three years from now.
Like I said, one can only hope.
Thanks for joining the thread, Hank.
Doc
..
H
Hank jones
Guest
Oh I know. It's like that stephen King book in the corner I keep starting. Lol
At some point I'll get pass the pages of na Sayers where you actually get into a topic. Thanks for your time. And actually having only one thread makes it far better nothing more annoying then people that keep starting new ones of the same stuff. Thank the gowds that the Internet is long distance or I'm sure some would have been shot by now. LoL
Hank
At some point I'll get pass the pages of na Sayers where you actually get into a topic. Thanks for your time. And actually having only one thread makes it far better nothing more annoying then people that keep starting new ones of the same stuff. Thank the gowds that the Internet is long distance or I'm sure some would have been shot by now. LoL
Hank
S
subd
Guest
Doc in Cleveland said:
Yeah to hell with politics the only point I was actually making is that some cultures would literally view virtually all of us as Cuckold based simply on our women having sexual freedom period.
Now the Homicide thing, there are aspects of "cuckolding" (don't actually like that word) that are down right dangerous, you mentioned at the start of this that Men into this "fetish" are "Intelligent" over all, I'd say and from experience, that if the woman isn't also very intelligent your probably screwed because if you take this from a pov of following the "fantasy" stories you read on line and are dumb enough to get that literal about the whole thing, either of you your headed to one form of doom or another.
Some of the stuff like "pregnancy" "friends" "bosses" are so non viable in the real world that if you start in with it your going to really mess up bad.
I have only had the misfortune of being with one woman who just couldn't "get it" that this was our intimacy and didn't know where to draw the line between fantasy and reality and boy did that suck
Homicide, I don't know about Homicide but I sure can end up knocking a guys lights out real fast or ending up with maybe even a DV which you an get these days just for yelling if my boundaries were crossed the wrong way, situations that lead to "real life" humiliation, or where some dude felt he had dibs over me etc these things can end up bad quickly.
In a way I agree with the statement "The submissive is actually the one in control" I think that's mostly true, your sort of serving the sub and pleasing the subs fantasy and there is a lot of room for discord when the sub finds them self in a situation that goes where they don't want and I know that is true for me.
I enjoy greatly a mixture of emotions, fear, pain, love, lust all rolled in at once is very intense, but I don't want my heart broken or to have my real life ruined, my mother in law doesn't need to know lol, my coworkers, well good luck having success on that job, it's ludicrous, can make for a good read but at the end of the night someone didn't just screw your boss they screwed your career as well and that can piss a person off when the consequences come around
I can't even imagine some of the stories as being sane, there is a line with this stuff and it appeals to very different people, bisexuals sometimes, voyeurs and sub-missives like myself and then, guys who really on some deep level just don't like themselves at all
I'll be glad to contribute because this is a very good thread, it needs discussion so it can be healthy sexual expression and sadly there are a fair number of people who are or who become a lil mentally ill involved and it needs to be talked about from a pov of the real
Good work Doc
S
subd
Guest
Now I have to add something.
For all the talk of the fall backs possible and the things that can go wrong, somehow, no matter what i do my life comes back of it's own accord to these scenarios.
I really wouldn't mind some feedback here, many guys in here obviously fantasize about this a lot and don't have it happen. I'm a decent looking guy, I have a fairly decent cock, above avg but I wouldn't call it big, i'm smart, I make a living.
Women like me, I go out, I always hook up with relative ease compared to most guys
Now honestly, I never intended to mention this fetish to a woman again, it's kind of complicated, i don't "need" it to get off and sometimes I just think a Vanilla life would be best, easier.
So here I am, I met a woman 2 weeks a go, a smart girl, I like her, none of this has come up, never mentioned, we had good sex. it's the 5th time I have seen her in a couple of weeks, we were out tonight together having a few drinks
it's 743 my time I just got home, this woman is a doctor, she really seems to like me. Tonight, this soon, she had sex with a Black Guy in front of me, we left the bar at 2:00 am closing time and were offered a bit o something buy a guy who just started talking to us, an hr later... i'm literally being cuckolded as if we had some arrangement already, no hint no clue nothing ever discussed, i'm not a guy you'd ever take as a wimp and this is why I lean to biological genetic and "born" reasons for this because my whole life since adolescence it works out this way
somehow the women i'm with and other men have a sense of it, they know with nothing said I am a...willing participant I guess for lack of a better word I suppose or...maybe i'm somehow attracted to women who are this way and unconsciously manage to create this, I don't know.
All I know is this, I really like this woman, I don't even live in an area where an encounter like this should be easy, it's very white as white can be and before tonight ended I watched her get ravaged by a another guy and we spent the last 2 hrs together with me between her legs after the fact
It wasn't discussed, it wasn't on any conscious level at least on my agenda
Yet since i'm a kid, literally this is my sex life and I wont lie I like it
I'd love to hear anyone who has an explanation for it, I mean i'm here, obviously I fantasize about it and have been thinking about it again but mostly I do not talk about it, none the less, in such a short time, the minute I hook up with a woman I really like, this is where I am Doc talks about it and others do like going that far is rare it seems, and as soon as we left our hosts house in the car she had my head between her legs like... it was expected of me
personally I have come to accept and enjoy this, but yet right now after the fact I am always somewhat bewildered, it seems surreal to a degree every time I end up here
any input is appreciated
For all the talk of the fall backs possible and the things that can go wrong, somehow, no matter what i do my life comes back of it's own accord to these scenarios.
I really wouldn't mind some feedback here, many guys in here obviously fantasize about this a lot and don't have it happen. I'm a decent looking guy, I have a fairly decent cock, above avg but I wouldn't call it big, i'm smart, I make a living.
Women like me, I go out, I always hook up with relative ease compared to most guys
Now honestly, I never intended to mention this fetish to a woman again, it's kind of complicated, i don't "need" it to get off and sometimes I just think a Vanilla life would be best, easier.
So here I am, I met a woman 2 weeks a go, a smart girl, I like her, none of this has come up, never mentioned, we had good sex. it's the 5th time I have seen her in a couple of weeks, we were out tonight together having a few drinks
it's 743 my time I just got home, this woman is a doctor, she really seems to like me. Tonight, this soon, she had sex with a Black Guy in front of me, we left the bar at 2:00 am closing time and were offered a bit o something buy a guy who just started talking to us, an hr later... i'm literally being cuckolded as if we had some arrangement already, no hint no clue nothing ever discussed, i'm not a guy you'd ever take as a wimp and this is why I lean to biological genetic and "born" reasons for this because my whole life since adolescence it works out this way
somehow the women i'm with and other men have a sense of it, they know with nothing said I am a...willing participant I guess for lack of a better word I suppose or...maybe i'm somehow attracted to women who are this way and unconsciously manage to create this, I don't know.
All I know is this, I really like this woman, I don't even live in an area where an encounter like this should be easy, it's very white as white can be and before tonight ended I watched her get ravaged by a another guy and we spent the last 2 hrs together with me between her legs after the fact
It wasn't discussed, it wasn't on any conscious level at least on my agenda
Yet since i'm a kid, literally this is my sex life and I wont lie I like it
I'd love to hear anyone who has an explanation for it, I mean i'm here, obviously I fantasize about it and have been thinking about it again but mostly I do not talk about it, none the less, in such a short time, the minute I hook up with a woman I really like, this is where I am Doc talks about it and others do like going that far is rare it seems, and as soon as we left our hosts house in the car she had my head between her legs like... it was expected of me
personally I have come to accept and enjoy this, but yet right now after the fact I am always somewhat bewildered, it seems surreal to a degree every time I end up here
any input is appreciated
subd: are you a nice guy?
First, I need to say that Doc has told me I need to let this go and move on. I agree to some extent, or to a large extent on some level. However, there is an untold side to all of this that I think I need to tell, and I do it, sometimes on this site, and a lot on another general marriage website. My reasoning? Because it is clear there are various points of view and this effects lives in different ways, ways that are very real and life-altering, ways that come from fantasy, where fantasy significantly impacts reality and consequences are severe.
So, are you a nice guy? I am curious.
Are some of us, those that let this fantasy destroy our lives, fixated on ass holes? That they are the real men? My husband was masculine, nice, caring, yet I thought often about the ass hole from my past that was even physically less than my husband.
Is marriage really gone, a thing of the past, all because we live in some fantasy world? Your story makes me think so. Why would women automatically assume you are a cuck? Because you are nice? That is actually very sad. But who am I to talk. Strong or those that value marriage, and make each other their fantasy.
First, I need to say that Doc has told me I need to let this go and move on. I agree to some extent, or to a large extent on some level. However, there is an untold side to all of this that I think I need to tell, and I do it, sometimes on this site, and a lot on another general marriage website. My reasoning? Because it is clear there are various points of view and this effects lives in different ways, ways that are very real and life-altering, ways that come from fantasy, where fantasy significantly impacts reality and consequences are severe.
So, are you a nice guy? I am curious.
Are some of us, those that let this fantasy destroy our lives, fixated on ass holes? That they are the real men? My husband was masculine, nice, caring, yet I thought often about the ass hole from my past that was even physically less than my husband.
Is marriage really gone, a thing of the past, all because we live in some fantasy world? Your story makes me think so. Why would women automatically assume you are a cuck? Because you are nice? That is actually very sad. But who am I to talk. Strong or those that value marriage, and make each other their fantasy.
S
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kimcarl said:
I'm a super nice guy
But that isn't the reason why, in daily life going out and stuff, no one screws with me, in fact my night job involves intimidating other men, i'm not a huge guy but I am a trained fighter, there's no women don't feel "safe" with me factors there is no, i'm a push over factor.
I wrote a lot about the biological end of this and I think there are both nurture factors but more importantly biological factors and that I give off certain cues and attract alpha females, I think we have certain natural mating style predispositions honestly and i'm kind of mainly comfortable with it at this point.
I think that there are women maybe not a huge percentage but higher than people realize who's bodies are really wired to desire a mate who will raise their young, make a good nest, groom her like a chimp does so to speak and when in that position they develop urges for natural sexual biological reasons to mate with other men particularly men with a varied gene pool
And I think there are guys like me who evolved to take advantage of that trait because if we were in a different time and place in human history where there was no birth control and there was nothing as complicated as society today "being in the know has it's advantages in reproduction for the male in that case in dealing with sperm competition.
Look there are many studies for MOST men, even when separated by great distance from a Mate, sperm production rises dramatically when a woman has cheated which of course leads to a greater frequency of arousal
What am I actually doing when a woman has just had sex with another man and I get a raging erection and then go down on her?
I am removing his sperm and gearing up to replace it with my own... from a purely biological perspective I find it... entirely natural.
Some guys are wired to fight in those situations others a few although maybe more than we know are wired to deal with it differently
Take the large number of straight Males that get off on going down or being "******" to go down on another man in front of their wives
Now bring that back to the post chimp days
If That alpha male "dominates" you like a big Ape... he's wasting his most viable sperm on you not her and your "denial" is letting you build up quite a huge load
So from a pov of an ape, who's winning the mating game? The Cuckold of course
Now in a modern world, with birth control, here is where the "nice guy" does come into play
For some women, nothing in the world is hotter, than just like a National Geographic special, than when some Big Lion comes along that is different and carrying "novel" genes and dominates her mate of a few years and plants that seed.
From a sexual POV for a woman like that her body wants that "novel" sperm it makes her cum really really hard, harder than I ever can regardless of penis size etc and I Love seeing her like that, My body responds to it very intensely as well, enough times it happens that dopamine rush becomes very addictive and people unconsciously even talk about it from the womans pov "BBC addiction" for men slut, cuckold, sissy "beg for it" the woman comes to hold a great power of the guy and he loves it if he doesn't question it
and it's healthy and natural if you understand it, place boundaries and really love each other
But back to the start
I think I give off cues, most people can read faces and body language even if they don't consciously do it.
Like for example if I feel there is threat coming in the direction of a woman i'm with can alpha male posture with the best of them and scare guys off, but what does my body look like when a big stud being ballsy approaches in a psuedo sexual manner? Mt Nice guy is there lol, I probably avert my eyes, I probably assume a more submissive posture, when I see the "moment of attraction" the eyes widen or the flip of the hair when another male approaches do I meet her gaze to make her look away or do I look away and let it continue?
I have never watched myself but I know the answer as a person I green light it on some level, now some women pick that up and don't like that, those aren't women i'm on date 5 with if you follow me
Last night the above story, I might have been buzzed, but i'm not entirely stupid, I could say I just wasn't thinking, but really did I go back with and it was her and her girlfriend and 2 Black guys 15 years my junior and me, to their place to get high? Like I didn't know her friend would be hooking up with one of them 20 minutes later? Did I stand there protective after they started hooking up or did I on some level choose to step outside and leave the Woman I was with alone for 5 minutes with the other guy?
I'm saying I send the signals and I know I can't actually help it.
And in the long run how can I hide it, if we so much as watch porn occasionally any woman that isn't stupid or in denial is going to notice I get the most aroused at certain things, some guys don't want their wives or gf buying a dildo at all, others can't help smile in the sex store when they pass the biggest blackest thing you can hook up to a portable generator lol
The "crazy" end to these fantasies, the desire for rl humiliation, suffering and all the rest I think comes when people can't accept or feel guilty for what in the end are natural desires or desires the fly hard in the face of society and it's norms
Either way, I am sure on a level I create it, I have since the minute I could get an erection, I didn't understand it then, I wish I did because I went through a cycle of getting involved with women who enjoyed this as much as I do and then breaking up attempting to shake because of inner shame only to find Inside I didn't really want to and as any guy in here knows a good relationship this way is hard to find.
S
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kimcarl said:
And in regards to what your saying
Your fixated on the "asshole" you have guilt, but in the end it's not unnatural to... desire SEXUALLY to be submissive, it's hard for most women I think, when you know a great guy a long time it's kind of difficult to... feel, anxiety and fear and insecurity and submission and these things are a natural part of sex for most women and a strong desire
I think, in all reality it's kind of unhealthy for woman to "not be in the mating game" at all even when married, when your body thinks your no longer eligible to be mated with I think it starts to die, you can become the Fat housewife, the Bitchy old woman very quickly and likewise with no fear of competition what happens to that guy you Love so much, where do his testosterone levels really go? Low T is associated with everything from Alzheimer's to heart disease and on and on
I'd love to know what my T levels are in the moments where I am building up like that, I know despite the whole submissive thing they are actually through the roof on some monkey ass level biologically my body think it's Winning and so does hers
look our sexuality as a society is really effed up, religion particularly has removed us very far from our real desires and we get conditioned really young to be and do things that in the end are very unnatural like... The Male is a stud if he seeks out women, but the woman who can have 5x the number of orgasms as the male is the "weaker" sex and a "slut"
My personal opinion is, a woman should be happy to have a guy who cares for her needs and the RL stuff, friends family coworkers, being genuinely mean, all of that is silly, it should be between you him and whomever and no one else so it doesn't affect "the real" ever
But guilt, now way, you Can have a very intimate relationship this way if you can accept it and if not well, then you can't, that's you. But try to understand these "taboos" were created in a world where, sex without pregnancy wasn't possible and Men needed to suppress the real feminine desires and needs or we couldn't have had society, but today things are different
S
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kimcarl said:
And lol, one more thing I have to address
FANTASY
Much of what develops in the imagination with this is Fantasy, totally unrealistic stuff that you as you put it well know you can't bring into reality and I agree Fantasy should stay fantasy
But there is also a very REAL side to this.
I am 6.5 inches, when ultra aroused maaaybe hit 7 not too thin but not Thick either
I have had sex with the woman from last night more than once, I am a good Lover, I gave her an Orgasm, she shuddered it was pleasurable sex but not "Fantastic" okay, the Earth did not move, she didn't feel "sore" afterwards, she could have had more and I know that
Last night, this guy was way bigger than me, where it took me 20-30 minutes to giver her a mild Orgasm, with him the first One was in under 5 and she didn't shudder, she shook, she couldn't talk, her eyes looked like the rolled back in her head, before he was done she must have came 5-6 times Thunderous screaming O's every one until she was spent
Now a common fantasy here is "denial" or he only gets handjobs from his wife but Fucks other guys or whatever.
Now here's what is real, a Hand Job is nice it feels good you cum you get relief, that is what sex with me for some women actually amounts to, a nice orgasm some comfort
when a man has this fantasy, women feel like OMG that is so awful and cruel of me, but isn't that what I am asking her to live with with me with an average sized penis? How many women live like this? Millions a level of sexual satisfaction that amounts to a handjob, Millions more who have men with S,all penises never get any satisfaction at all
Isn't that in the end putting a Wife into Orgasm Denial and Chastity?
What is real within this Fantasy when you avoid the extreme and ridiculous life affecting stuff? What does the porn almost always try to capture?
The Look on HER Face when she sees a really Big Dick for the first time, the submissiveness of her body and the Captivation by it.
That's real, i've seen that look and it's a look I do not get given or at least haven't since I was like 16, I don't get disgust or disappointment, but I don't get that look the inability to look away regardless of what is going on the widening of the eyes the Captivation
So am I nice guy? Yeah, because I want to see that look in her eyes sometimes, I want to see her absorbed, lustful, thoroughly orgasmic so what is a guy to do? Go into denial, put her into a form of chastity? or be honest and accept what is real?
I personally had a little help when I was younger
I had a woman who tutored me in foreign language, she was older in her 30's and we were very close and I was really sad one day because I found out that my gf had slept with another guy in the neighborhood and I was being a teenager cursing and bitching about it.
She took me and she told me she wanted to see something and started kissing me and undressed me and she was stroking me and she talked to me and she looked me dead in the eyes and told me while she had me like that for all intents and purposes
" You will never be that kind of guy, that unless I wanted to be with a woman who had a very low sex drive or a homely woman this would happen to me again and again because your Penis wont satisfy her like many other guys could"
It went on longer than that she said a lot to me and I was for all intents and purposes in love with this woman in a way and she wasn't mean she was just totally straight forward, she kept making me look in her eyes she told me I needed to learn to have empathy with woman to enjoy what they wanted to make sure I made good money to take care of her and i'd get to hold onto pretty girls etc and at the end she asked me if I had ever been in the locker room with the guy she slept with she asked me if I had seen his cock and she made me tell her that yes but I kind of avoided gym class because I didn't like showering with those guys because they were bigger than me down there and it felt really, really shameful and she just picked my head up made me look at her and said "imagine his cock" "imagine it inside her" 'wouldn't you like to have a cock like his" "isn't it amazing" "you know why she wants it" etc etc et al
Until I came it was the best Orgasm I had ever had in my life complete sub space, helplessness, open, vulnerable
Of course for many years after I had periods of denial, just pushed I guess what I had said and how I felt out of my mind and tried to be a true stud and as I said a few notes back women like me it wasn't hard.
But she was right, this topic always came back to haunt me, I was aware when watching a woman I was with how she looked at other guys and in every relationship there were those "girls nights out" etc
Finally at 23 I entered my first "cuckold" relationship because it was always on my mind and of course I left it after a few months and tried Vanilla then went back until I finally dealt with it.
Even having had it spelled out to me as plain as day by a very understanding and sexually wise older woman I had much denial for a long time.
But Fantasy?
No that part is very real, I am as you put it a really nice guy, and my cock doesn't suck thank god, but it is 2 inches shorter and likely as much thinner than is Orgasmic-ally optimal for most women
And that nice guy in me really doesn't want to put a woman he loves in psuedo chastity and It turns me on more than anything else ever has and I can't help that anyway.
And long before her it turned me on.
To be totally honest and put it out there, I grew up in a neighborhood in the inner city that "turned" while I was a child, in other words a lot of Black people moved in and my parents couldn't afford to move and the Interracial sex thing is real, I grew up watching more than one girl I had a crush on loose her virginity or just have sex with black guys in fact more than one Mother as well (not mine) but friends.
My first true cuckolding experience? I was just about to turn 10, my babysitter had her boyfriend the superintendents son over one night while she was watching me and I peeked and I had a total kid crush on her had parents that never spoke of sex and that's what Is saw, my introduction
And back to the Biological, I knew lots of other guys who had similar experiences and it pissed them off, but me? Me it gave an erection to lol
So is it "Fantasy"?
No there's a lot of real going here too.
Husbands, guns, lovers, and more guns...
I agree. It's not unusual in the news.
Not too long ago (during 2011), a woman friend — with whom I do not have a sleeping relationship — introduced me to a married woman friend of hers I'll call "Elspeth," whom she had met not too long before... i.e., it was not a long-term friendship. Elspeth was and is not a "happily married" woman.
The three of us went for a drive up a relatively-large hill outside of town with good views from the top. (In the eastern U.S., it would be called a mountain.) It was overcast and raining lightly; hardly anyone else was there. Elspeth... about 5'4", not overweight, and relatively attractive... began talking about her emotional/sexual problems vis-a-vis her husband, who had lost whatever sexual interest he may have had in her, was unresponsive to her attempts to turn him on and seduce him, and spent his time at home... when he was not working... preoccupied with pornography on the Internet. They have a relatively nice house in a good neighborhood that's attractive inside, my friend tells me. Elspeth used to be an interior designer.
Elspeth had taken a lover, about whom she had reservations. He's been married and divorced 6 times. From her descriptions of him, he displays, I would say, many if not most of the classical signs of a woman abuser. He owns two handguns, one of which he keeps under his mattress on his side of the bed; the other he keeps under his mattress at the foot of his bed (which brings to mind "Haywire" the movie — but, I digress.)
As you've guessed by now, no doubt, the state I live in is one of the many U.S. states that have legalized carrying concealed weapons (read, concealed guns). Elspeth said her husband had never had any interest in guns. But, a month or two earlier he had bought several, including two handguns, and had begun practicing regularly on a firing range.
Enroute back from the hilltop, my friend and I made a fairly serious attempt to convince Elspeth that of the options available to her, by far the worst and most dangerous would be to move in with her lover. Even worse, if she divorces her husband (that's in progress, as I understand it), would be to marry her lover. But, Elspeth... who listened and continued to talk with us... seemed unlikely to accept what we were trying to tell her. When we got back to her place, she made it clear she found me attractive and kissed me, with feeling, on the lips. I kissed her back.
Later, Elspeth mentioned her husband keeps one of his handguns, a .44, under the front seat of their car. (They have one vehicle, which she drives after giving her husband a ride to work.) Later still, my friend and Elspeth stopped by my place; Elspeth was driving. After a bit, as they were about to leave, I asked Elspeth if she had her gun. She said yes. Is it loaded? Yes. Is it holstered, or knocking around loose on the floor? It's holstered. I could see it, she pointed out, opening the door. Part of the holster was visible, projecting out from beneath the front seat. I asked her if she's a good shot. She said she practices on a firing range about every 10 days, and is usually able to hit the target. I mentioned there is a saying: if you carry a gun, it's only a matter of time until you shoot someone. I hoped that would not pertain to her. They left.
More recently, my friend mentioned that Elspeth moved in with her lover. He too had bought her a handgun so she would have one of her very own. She keeps it under (now their) mattress on her side of the bed. Unable to resist, I commented that fucking must be terrifying since, on every thrust, there's a possibility of inadvertently triggering a gunshot — if not three — and blowing a hole in a wall or window. My friend was not amused.
I'm pretty sure all this is going to end badly, but so far (remarkably) no one has been shot. As for me, since Elspeth and her .44 and my friend drove off from my place, I have not seen or talked further with her. There's something about a woman carrying a concealed gun — or a gun out in the open, say in a hip holster — I find unattractive. Maybe it's because of my awareness that a frightened person with a loaded gun is somewhere near the top of the "disasters waiting to happen" scale, and the disaster could be me.
You see, I'm not a gun guy. Some time ago, in response to me stating I don't own a gun and never have, the person I was talking with, visibly surprised, said: Why not? Because I don't need one, I replied. That ended the conversation.
Doc in Cleveland said:
I agree. It's not unusual in the news.
Not too long ago (during 2011), a woman friend — with whom I do not have a sleeping relationship — introduced me to a married woman friend of hers I'll call "Elspeth," whom she had met not too long before... i.e., it was not a long-term friendship. Elspeth was and is not a "happily married" woman.
The three of us went for a drive up a relatively-large hill outside of town with good views from the top. (In the eastern U.S., it would be called a mountain.) It was overcast and raining lightly; hardly anyone else was there. Elspeth... about 5'4", not overweight, and relatively attractive... began talking about her emotional/sexual problems vis-a-vis her husband, who had lost whatever sexual interest he may have had in her, was unresponsive to her attempts to turn him on and seduce him, and spent his time at home... when he was not working... preoccupied with pornography on the Internet. They have a relatively nice house in a good neighborhood that's attractive inside, my friend tells me. Elspeth used to be an interior designer.
Elspeth had taken a lover, about whom she had reservations. He's been married and divorced 6 times. From her descriptions of him, he displays, I would say, many if not most of the classical signs of a woman abuser. He owns two handguns, one of which he keeps under his mattress on his side of the bed; the other he keeps under his mattress at the foot of his bed (which brings to mind "Haywire" the movie — but, I digress.)
As you've guessed by now, no doubt, the state I live in is one of the many U.S. states that have legalized carrying concealed weapons (read, concealed guns). Elspeth said her husband had never had any interest in guns. But, a month or two earlier he had bought several, including two handguns, and had begun practicing regularly on a firing range.
Enroute back from the hilltop, my friend and I made a fairly serious attempt to convince Elspeth that of the options available to her, by far the worst and most dangerous would be to move in with her lover. Even worse, if she divorces her husband (that's in progress, as I understand it), would be to marry her lover. But, Elspeth... who listened and continued to talk with us... seemed unlikely to accept what we were trying to tell her. When we got back to her place, she made it clear she found me attractive and kissed me, with feeling, on the lips. I kissed her back.
Later, Elspeth mentioned her husband keeps one of his handguns, a .44, under the front seat of their car. (They have one vehicle, which she drives after giving her husband a ride to work.) Later still, my friend and Elspeth stopped by my place; Elspeth was driving. After a bit, as they were about to leave, I asked Elspeth if she had her gun. She said yes. Is it loaded? Yes. Is it holstered, or knocking around loose on the floor? It's holstered. I could see it, she pointed out, opening the door. Part of the holster was visible, projecting out from beneath the front seat. I asked her if she's a good shot. She said she practices on a firing range about every 10 days, and is usually able to hit the target. I mentioned there is a saying: if you carry a gun, it's only a matter of time until you shoot someone. I hoped that would not pertain to her. They left.
More recently, my friend mentioned that Elspeth moved in with her lover. He too had bought her a handgun so she would have one of her very own. She keeps it under (now their) mattress on her side of the bed. Unable to resist, I commented that fucking must be terrifying since, on every thrust, there's a possibility of inadvertently triggering a gunshot — if not three — and blowing a hole in a wall or window. My friend was not amused.
I'm pretty sure all this is going to end badly, but so far (remarkably) no one has been shot. As for me, since Elspeth and her .44 and my friend drove off from my place, I have not seen or talked further with her. There's something about a woman carrying a concealed gun — or a gun out in the open, say in a hip holster — I find unattractive. Maybe it's because of my awareness that a frightened person with a loaded gun is somewhere near the top of the "disasters waiting to happen" scale, and the disaster could be me.
You see, I'm not a gun guy. Some time ago, in response to me stating I don't own a gun and never have, the person I was talking with, visibly surprised, said: Why not? Because I don't need one, I replied. That ended the conversation.
