The Blind side
- Thread starterPerson 27
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The book The Blind Side was written by Michael Lewis some years ago, and I read it when it was first published. Screenwriters took the usual "Hollywood license" when writing the script for the movie.
I don't think it's fair to judge the Tuohys' motivations from a movie script that everyone (including the filmmakers) admits is "based on a true story", rather than actually being a true story.
Just my 0.02 from a noobie perspective...
--Julia
I don't think it's fair to judge the Tuohys' motivations from a movie script that everyone (including the filmmakers) admits is "based on a true story", rather than actually being a true story.
Just my 0.02 from a noobie perspective...
--Julia
JuliaC_NM said:
I didn't judge the Tuohy's motivations based on the movie.... I judged their motivations IN SPITE OF the movie. If they had taken in some random black kid who was 5'7" and wasn't worth a shit in sports, then I would buy the story that they did it because they were performing a random act of kindness. That whole situation was shady from the get-go. The high school acted as though they were letting this kid attend the school strictly based on a higher purpose. He had a shitty GPA and, if he wasn't exceptional at sports, wouldn't have been allowed to sniff the front door at Briarcrest even if he paid double the tuition.Briarcrest Christian School, Memphis Tennessee - Apply to BCS :: Tuition
The Tuohy's motivation was singleminded and deliberate. They wanted Oher to attend Mississippi and were willing to allow him to live with them to ensure that this happened. He was living with other families before he settled in at their house.
The funny thing is that I don't condemn them for doing this. But I do condemn them for not admitting it.
JuliaC_NM said:Apparently I've stepped on your toes; sorry.
I'll just leave you with a Thought for the Day: Never let your cynicism interfere with your creativity.
--Julia
You didn't step on my toes. I just addressed your post. The Memphis area is notorious for doing shady shit with high school athletes. The University of Alabama football was put on probation a few years ago because an Alabama booster who lived in Memphis paid $200,000 to a Memphis high school player's coach and family so that he would play for Alabama. Well, actually he promised the money to the parties involved. The NCAA blew it open before the booster got it all paid.
When it comes to shit like this, the Memphis area is as corrupt as the Teamsters Union.
A Thought of the Day for you... Never let your gullibility interfere with your sense of reality
remember the titans is based on a true story, and a damn fine movie. come on here, this is just another racist thread, albeit coming from someone who doesnt portray himself as racist, and I dont think is trying to be racist...but still is in this case. if you just quote some points of an argument on one side, well lets call a spade a spade. you arent being fair. there are plenty of shows, movies, etc. that show blacks in a bad light; law and order, boys in the hood etc. IF YOU WANT TO END DISCRIMINATION, DONT ACCEPT IT IN YOUR LIFE, DONT PROMOTE IT, BE AN EXAMPLE OF THE OPPOSITE. Over time it will lesson, but likely never end. Its your choice.
And those who point out that TV and Media are just for making money and not necessarily reality of life, are correct for the most part. There is little true reality on TV.
people stick to fucking and talking bout that, and leave the rest alone.
And those who point out that TV and Media are just for making money and not necessarily reality of life, are correct for the most part. There is little true reality on TV.
people stick to fucking and talking bout that, and leave the rest alone.
JuliaC_NM said:I'm not gullible, but you are definitely cynical!
I prefer to think of myself as realistic with a hint of cynicism, a dash of hope, an a pinch of optimism.
If you bought either the book version or the movie version of "The Blind Side" story 100%, then you are gullible. It's no different than listening only to the Defense in a court case and making a judgement based upon hearing that one side.
Now I'm shining light on this story from a different angle and it's interfering with the image of this situation by which you had been indoctrinated. Check out the rosters of any powerhouse private high school football and basketball program. You can pretty much guarantee that there's some shit like this going on. Pretty much every team that's a year-in, year-out contender has a couple of kids who don't "fit in" at said school. They are poor, black and academically behind.
Is this wrong for the schools to do this just so they can be competitive or win championships? Not from where I'm standing. Is it wrong for them to systematically deny that the only reason these kids are attending their schools is because they bring notoriety to their schools and make their athletic programs better? HELL YES!
The movie "Hoop Dreams" indirectly touched upon this very thing. I don't know if you're familiar with the movie or not, but it's about two different inner city kids who got recruited to play for a private school. One panned out to be a decent player while the other one tabled off and didn't live up to his promise. Both of them struggled to keep up with the academics. Guess who got kicked out of school?
Person 27 said:
To me you come across as a Neo-Nazi and a racist.
It's disturbing. Also, maybe the reason the media portrays white people as committing more crime than any other racial group is because this is actually the case in real life? Next you will be telling us that anti-White Jewish people disproportionately control huge swathes of media outlets in the western world! you are sick
gears said:
What I see, coming in from the outside as a new person in this forum, is that you make judgments based on a lot of assumptions, not just in this topic but on other topics as well. My original post suggested that we refrain from making judgments about the Tuohy's motives-- whatever they may be-- based on a movie that freely admits it's only "based on a true story". Following that, I tried to get you to lighten up by suggesting your cynicsm might get in the way of creative fun.
But since you're determined to keep this on a serious level, I'll reply in kind. In your most recent argument, you made some assumptions about me that aren't borne out by facts, so let me correct them.
First of all, I neither bought the book nor saw the movie. I read it in the library or the bookstore because I'd go broke buying every book I read. So I think you need to retract the "gullible" part. Cheap, perhaps, but not gullible!
Second, I haven't been "indoctrinated". Having read several of the Michael Lewis' other works, I know he has an agenda; all authors do, and the primary one is to make money (if they're smart!) I never take anything at face value unless I'm getting the information directly from the source-- and even then, one has to understand the personal agenda.
Third, I don't need to see a movie (Hoop Dreams or any other) to understand that the privileged can take advantage of the not-so-privileged. I know personally what it's like to be a member of the "have-nots" and be 'recruited' by the privileged because of a particular skill set. I also know first-hand how quickly one can be discarded when that skill set appears to be no longer of use. My perspective comes from my own life, not from the life of a character on film.
So you see, I'm not some sort of bleeding-heart apologist with a collection of Disney movies at home. By assuming that, you do us both a disservice. And that was my point-- none of us know the Tuohys, so we can't presume to know their true (and likely complex) motives.
Okay, I'm off the soapbox, and to everyone else, my apologies for not resisting the urge to get on it. I'm not likely to reply to any further discussion, though, so the rest of you can breathe easy!
And you, gears--- you're way too serious, babe! Go get laid or something!
--Julia
JuliaC_NM said:What I see, coming in from the outside as a new person in this forum, is that you make judgments based on a lot of assumptions, not just in this topic but on other topics as well. My original post suggested that we refrain from making judgments about the Tuohy's motives-- whatever they may be-- based on a movie that freely admits it's only "based on a true story". Following that, I tried to get you to lighten up by suggesting your cynicsm might get in the way of creative fun.
But since you're determined to keep this on a serious level, I'll reply in kind. In your most recent argument, you made some assumptions about me that aren't borne out by facts, so let me correct them.
First of all, I neither bought the book nor saw the movie. I read it in the library or the bookstore because I'd go broke buying every book I read. So I think you need to retract the "gullible" part. Cheap, perhaps, but not gullible!
Second, I haven't been "indoctrinated". Having read several of the Michael Lewis' other works, I know he has an agenda; all authors do, and the primary one is to make money (if they're smart!) I never take anything at face value unless I'm getting the information directly from the source-- and even then, one has to understand the personal agenda.
Third, I don't need to see a movie (Hoop Dreams or any other) to understand that the privileged can take advantage of the not-so-privileged. I know personally what it's like to be a member of the "have-nots" and be 'recruited' by the privileged because of a particular skill set. I also know first-hand how quickly one can be discarded when that skill set appears to be no longer of use. My perspective comes from my own life, not from the life of a character on film.
So you see, I'm not some sort of bleeding-heart apologist with a collection of Disney movies at home. By assuming that, you do us both a disservice. And that was my point-- none of us know the Tuohys, so we can't presume to know their true (and likely complex) motives.
Okay, I'm off the soapbox, and to everyone else, my apologies for not resisting the urge to get on it. I'm not likely to reply to any further discussion, though, so the rest of you can breathe easy!
And you, gears--- you're way too serious, babe! Go get laid or something!
--Julia
Well, I guess my seriousness trumps the seriousness of the other members of this board when they post. Generally, when I post a response, I am no more serious about the subject than the person or persons to whom I am replying. It just so happens that my replies are generally more well thought out, articulate and formulated than the next guy's. All I'm doing is posting my opinions based on the facts of what I have witnessed in my life.
And you're splitting hairs when you say that you didn't buy the book. Bought, borrowed or stolen... you read the book and came away from it with the author's take.
However, I don't fully understand you. You seem to have come around and freely admit that people can't be taken at face value...even when it comes directly from the source, if they have something to gain. Yet, you are willing to continue to give the Tuohy's the benefit of the doubt. I do agree that their motives might not have been single-minded.
Taking in Oher most likely gave them satisfaction on multiple levels. They felt like they were helping someone less fortunate. They liked the attention they got from the other parents at Briarcrest (They essentially "won" the right, over some other Briarcrest parents, to let him stay with them. As I'm sure you learned from the book, he bounced around other Briarcrest families' homes before settling in at the Tuohy's.) They eventually started getting attention from other areas and outlets. And the Tuohy's son was obviously not going to be an athlete like his father. Both of the elder Tuohy's are very, very competitive and were drawn to having a high caliber athlete "in the family". He was a project for them. A "pet", if you will. This is just a brief survey of, what I believe are, their motivations.
If taking in Oher was such a rewarding and satisfying experience, then why aren't they trying to get another underprivileged black kid to come live with them?
My opinion? Why...I'm glad you asked! I believe that they would do it in a minute if they thought it wouldn't interfere with the fragile perception that they took in Oher for completely innocent and benevolent reasons. If they took in another high level athlete, they would look unscrupulous. If they took in a random underprivileged black kid who wasn't an athlete, then they wouldn't get the notoriety they got from taking in Oher.
I'm glad that your perspective is based upon your own experiences in life. So is mine.
And I truly do appreciate your concern about me needing to get laid. Really, I am. But, I seriously doubt that sexual repression or suppression is an issue for me. From last Thursday night to Sunday, I had sex 4 times and got a blow job...so I'm good to go for a day or two. {Insert stupid emoticon →here← depicting fanciful disdain}
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that when it comes to movies on the big screen, Hollywood is definitely racist. I'm going to scream if there's another movie that comes out where a white is going to go into the hood and teach kids there how to love or how to really dance. Can anyone name a big budget romance where the lead was black and his wife/girlfriend was black as well? I mean I know I am into white women but that doesn't mean I'm not into black women as well. There are a ton of movies where blacks or hell any other minorities aren't represented. Hell even when we are represented it's usually the same way. On another rant I sure wish Tylor Perry would stop demonizing black men.
All in all Hollywood will never produce a big budget film where a spanish guy "discovers" America.
All in all Hollywood will never produce a big budget film where a spanish guy "discovers" America.
I read the book when it came out and I read other stuff from Michael Lewis, he's prone to exaggerate to make a story, nothing different with this book and movie. I agree, If Michael Ohler was a 5'7 black dude, I highly doubt he's anywhere near their house...
Blackcocklover29: Neo Nazi's aren't the only people who say "Jews control the media"... I don't know why you didn't have the balls to even say that. Are you scared you'd let the secret out or something.
In reality, everything on TV is about whites ( and blacks). I think Hispanics, Arabs, and Asians are highly under represented on television. Every commercial is a dumb white guy with the old product and a smart black guy with the new product. You can't do it the other way. You show black people as stupid and then Laquesha has to take off work to go protest "racism in the media".
Blackcocklover29: Neo Nazi's aren't the only people who say "Jews control the media"... I don't know why you didn't have the balls to even say that. Are you scared you'd let the secret out or something.
In reality, everything on TV is about whites ( and blacks). I think Hispanics, Arabs, and Asians are highly under represented on television. Every commercial is a dumb white guy with the old product and a smart black guy with the new product. You can't do it the other way. You show black people as stupid and then Laquesha has to take off work to go protest "racism in the media".
I wont go see the movie. I seen the 20 20 episode where they chatted with the real guy and he said when he watched it he said he knew football wasnt lazy and wasnt out of shape so if they are gonna make a movie out of this mans life do it to the fact or forget it because he wasnt a fat ass dumb black kid that didnt know football. Is he selling the movie or is it Sandra Bs ass getting the press from it.
Person 27 said:
Even we black people despise whites and seek to avoid you, our ability to do so will be directly constrained by the larger opportunity structure that has skewed power and resources in your direction. Whites seeking to avoid blacks on the other hand, can do so READILY, with the help of mortgage discrimination, redlining and zoning. Now of course you might say that we blacks can indeed exercise a form of power over whites, if by no other means then certainly by way of racially-motivated violence. But since racial violence is also a power that whites have against black people, the power that might obtain in such a situation is hardly unique to black people.
Additionally, the "Power" of violence is not really power at all. After all, to exercise this power, one has to break the law and possibly go to jail. What kind of power is it that if you use this power you could go to jail ? Nope. Power is much more potent when it can be deployed without having to break the law to do it. So discrimination in lending, though illegal is not going to result in the perp going to jail; so too with employment discrimination or racial profiling. There are plenty of ways that more powerful groups can deploy racism against less powerful groups without having to break the law to do it: by moving away when too many of them move in (which is something one can only do if one has the option of moving where one wishes, without having to worry about discrimination in housing.) Or one can discriminate in employment but not be subjected to legal penalty, so long as one makes the claim that the black applicant was "less qualified," even though that determination is wholly subjective, and rarely subjected to open scrutiny to see if it was determined accurately.
Person 27 said:
You may have point, white people may be in danger if they go to a black ghetto (Which I doubt) but just let's say you’re right and go with your argument, well seeing as how there aren't a bunch of white people fighting for the privilege of going into black ghettos, its absence hardly indicates a general state of disadvantage suffered by you white folks. That this is best example of disadvantage you could come up with, is all the proof one should need that indeed, white racism, though perhaps not the only kind out there, is certainly of a different nature.
Person 27 said:
Ok. So all this so called positivity about us black men has made the world look up to black men and see us as smart people. You see that's the point you fail to grasp. How are black men SEEN by most normal people on the ground, centuries of negativity about black men is not going to change just because there are few black doctors on some T.V show. Most of the institutions in the United States are chaired, governed, and otherwise presided over by white people. To say that white men are discriminated against is like saying white men are not in power. For you to say the media is in black peoples favour is almost beyond a joke, to the point which makes me think that someone needs to check your sanity.
Whenever we black folks do something wrong, EVERYONE get's to hear about it. If gang violence heats up in America's inner cities, you can bet it'll be front-page news. Unacceptably high dropout rates ? Yep, you can read all about it. Drugs, crime, out-of-wedlock childbirth? Yes, yes, and more YES !!. The press NEVER tires of bringing us a steady drumbeat of negativity when it comes to black people. Local television news is notoriously bad about this: blanketing the first 5-10 minutes of each newscast with crime stories, which over-represent blacks as perpetrators, relative to our share of crime actually committed by African Americans.
Yet, in the wake of a recent report that flatly contradicts many of the most pernicious stereotypes about black irresponsibility, what do we see from the national media ? Almost nothing. A report that, if anything, suggests it is white youth who are more likely to engage in a whole host of irresponsible behaviours, and whose character we might wish to call into question ? To such a revelation, there are no TV specials, no editorials, and no prominent white person doing the equivalent of a Bill Cosby. Given the way in which negative stereotypes can contribute to discriminatory treatment, the value of countering them with facts should be apparent. If we allow any group of persons to be tagged with the label of deviants--the way whites have done with black people --you can't then be surprised when those same persons face discrimination in the job market, in schools, housing and on the part of law enforcement.
Finally you miss the point of how racism works, Simply put, what separates white racism from any other form, is the ability of the white racism to become lodged in the minds of and perceptions of the population. White perceptions are what end up counting in a white-dominated society. If whites say Indians are savages, then by God, they'll be seen as savages. If whites say black people are drug dealing violent, deadbeat dads, then by God, we'll be seen as drug dealing violent, deadbeat dads. If we blacks say whites are nerdy, stupid or programme makers portray white men like this, who the hell is going to care ? Because this is not going to lodged in the minds of the mass population. When you have the power, you can afford to be self-deprecating, after all.
sobers said:
***Please post a link to this report.
And I don't fully understand what your gripe is in the first paragraph above. All the issues you bring up are real issues. Are you saying that they should be hidden or denied by the media? And you are dead wrong about the media trying to vilify black people...au contraire. If a black person commits a crime, the media tries its best to NOT mention that they are black. It's true that the lead stories in the local news generally trend towards crime stories. But do you honestly think that they are ignoring crimes committed by white people just so they can make black people look bad? I would be willing to bet you that at least one of your local stations has a black anchorman or anchorwoman. Are they in on the conspiracy?
