Tyranny Doth A Tiring Tyrant Try

[blkoralslaveboy]

Will, I disagree with some of your points in your post, as you well know.

What I don't disagree on is the main point though. I think Bush was an incompetent president, period. Caling him evil is just going way too far. It's the kind of rhetoric that I oppose from either the left or the right. People have differences of opinion, that's life. But when the differences are described as good and/or evil or by other divisive terms, it serves no purpose other than to divide.

I believe when he says he did what he thought was right for the american people. I believe he regrets his mistakes. I believe he deserves the respect that someone who took on for 8 years one of the most onerous jobs in the world, should get. As much as I believe that Obama should be given a fair chance to, at least, get in office and execute his job before being attacked by his political opponents.

I can point out details of what Obama has done so far that I disagree with, what Bush did that I disagree with, but it's not the important thing right now. The important thing is we look forward to solving our problems, not backwards, that we give our new president a fair chance to get a good start. And we all stop with the rhetoric of divisiveness and hate and act like we're of one nation and disagreement is healthy and necessary for good decision making.

If Obama bullshits us and drags us into an unjustifiable war against an undeserving enemy, I hope you can show him the same respect then Ro. I usually agree with most of what you have to say but I can never agree that Bush is just 'incompetent' to the point that we can dismiss his idealist's imperialism-driven blunders to be just dismissed with a "oh well, he tried". No, he soiled the flag and it we'll spend the next 10 years cleaning it up!!!

 

[RoSquirts]

It's a funny thing, Will, how the Arab world has done little or nothing to help the Palestinians thru their history and yet cry in anguish after they use them as pawns to attack Israel. Probably amongst the greatest hypocrisies of modern political times.

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

It's a funny thing, Will, how the Arab world has done little or nothing to help the Palestinians thru their history and yet cry in anguish after they use them as pawns to attack Israel. Probably amongst the greatest hypocrisies of modern political times.

I definitely agree with that, but add that historically (pre-1980), they did try to help their Palestinian cousins, but failed. We (Israel/USA) more or less assisted them in becoming a bit more divided so that they would eventually pose less danger to Israel.

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

(By the way, did you know that there really isn't any such thing as an ethnic "Palestinian"? The whole thing is a political creation - a PR tool to make the Jews look like villains. There's a dark history behind the plight of those people that casts as much or more guilt on their fellow Arabs as it does on the Jews.

Why? Palestinians are very much an ethnic subset of Arabs. They're the direct descendants of the Philistines and more than likely spoke their own language and practiced their own religion before the expansion of Islam throughout the region. More than likely they married their own and saw themselves as distinct people down through time.

I agree with you saying terrorism against Israel pretty much justifies almost any retaliatory method used by Israel. But rewriting history and redefining Palestinians as just other Arabs that can easily assimilate into their neighbors' nations, makes me wonder if it isn't to dilute the fact that we more or less did start this whole damned thing. We helped start the affair under Truman (for all intensive purposes keeping into consideration the "Zionist" movements prior to 1948 which were in far less numbers and non-official) and unfortunately we're going to have to deal with both of them sorta like a dad and his sons.

 

[RoSquirts]

True , they're an ethnic subset. But they had no country or land until given it after WWII. The Egyptians subsequently took it from them to invade Israel in 1948 and then lost it to the Israelis in the 1967 war. If the other Arab nations hadn't used the Palestinian lands for launchpads to invade Israel, most of this mess could have been avoided, although the Arab desire to annihilate Israel would still be there..

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

True , they're an ethnic subset. But they had no country or land until given it after WWII. The Egyptians subsequently took it from them to invade Israel in 1948 and then lost it to the Israelis in the 1967 war. If the other Arab nations hadn't used the Palestinian lands for launchpads to invade Israel, most of this mess could have been avoided, although the Arab desire to annihilate Israel would still be there..

Fair nuff,,, what do you think our role should be in the current crisis?

 

[daveman54]

To GoHead

Maybe if you read the bible, you'd know that God says in plain english, God will bless the nation that blesses Israel, and curse the nations that curse her, We have been the closest allie to Israel and our nation has been at the top of the heap since forever.........my fear is that this new halfrican-american president is going to sell Israel down the river, and you will begin to see terrible things happening to this great country of ours.

 

[RoSquirts]

Here's an interesting article regarding that blessing the nation that blesses Israel cr.., err, statement.

He Who Blesses Israel is Blessed? - White Horse Media

I believe we should support Israel but this twisting of the Bible to support the argument that we're great because we support Israel and god said so, is just fiction.

 

[RoSquirts]

Fair nuff,,, what do you think our role should be in the current crisis?

I think we should pressure Israel to practice restraint when possible and that we should demand the Egyptians or an international force stop the flow of weapons into Gaza. And at the same time, push Israel and the oh-so-concerned other Arab countries to alleviate the economic plight and living conditions of the Palestinians.

For the first 6 years of Bush's presidency, he took a hands off approach to the Israeli-Palestinian problem. Our diplomatic efforts have to reverse that and not look for a quick easy answer but a constant sustained effort.

 

[agripa]

Respect!

Daveman54 please do not refer to our President in such a disparaging way, I mean please halfrican. It might be a funny joke in small circles of friends but hardly what should ever be published in an open forum of any kind. As for the Gaza crises, I fully support our Israeli friends and allies. The debate on whoever has a right to that region is older than time itself. Israel controls that region now and has every right to protect its citizens in any way they see fit. If the shoe were on our foot I would hope that we would respond in kind to our would be enemies as well. Dialogue is always preferable but when the opponents only interest is to exterminate you, as the Palestinian/Hamas factions have publicly stated then why even talk. Sometimes the other side will never be willing to listen or compromise. What makes America and Americans great? Compromise does and most other nations or world leaders have little understanding of that basic democratic tenant that makes us look like a nation of debaters, but in reality is our greates strength. If the other side has ceased or is unwilling to listen then what other alternative is there? "Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft." (Theodore Roosevelt)

 

[Elizabeth T]

WHen dealing with factions like Hamas or Fatah, you cannot get through to these people. Israel never strikes back unless attacked. I hope this country stay close to Israel. They are our only allies in this region. None of the other Arab nations can be trusted.

 

[Josetta]

Two million people came out for President Obama's inauguration proving he is mighty popular. George Bush never pulled that many out.

Many months ago, I predicted that he was a new broom sweeping clean the nation and making way for a new era. He relates to world leaders and understands their problems with an empathy that surprises.

George Bush took the view that he was World Boss and other countries were "with him or agin him". No one appreciated his arrogance.

Bush has recently admitted that there never were "weapons of mass production in Iraq". 100,000 people have died so far over that original lie to get backers for his war, and I am pleased he finally came clean with the truth. John Howard got chucked out of Power in Australia for backing Bush and it has cost a huge amount of money to beef up security over there in Australia.

The Law of karma simply means that when you do good samarthon acts of kindness, you will be repaid one hundred fold in many different ways during your life-time. And if you fire rockets on Israel, then expect the karma energy to work in reverse and punish you a hundred-fold. I don't live in the Middle East, but it is a religous hot spot and America should keep out of it. It is beyond our understanding.

When the two countries are ready for a Permanent Peace, they will shake hands and forgive each other for past sins, in accordance to the Ten Commandments. For a long time, "an eye for an eye" and "a tooth for a tooth" has prevailed from the First Testament. We tend to follow the Second Testament and reckon we know better.

There is no way that any American can even begin to understand the Middle East tensions. War is an ever constant threat over there, it is like 911 happening over and over again. We don't appreciate how lucky we are to be so far away from the real problems of the world. Every meal they have, they say their prayers for being lucky to still be alive a few more hours.

Religous wars cannot be stopped, too many kids have had their legs blown off, the desire for revenge prevails. There is only one God, but several interpretations of the truth. How can we be sure which interpretation is correct when we live so far away?

The First Bush President was the best one. Wait for Nelson Mandela to shake Barrick Obama's hand, that is the next significant thing to happen.

 

[RoSquirts]

LOL, sometimes you just gotta laugh.

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

NOW (drum rolls please) I want everyone to give me their opinions from the point of view of being a Palestinian. Let us say that each of us is the same, stubborn person we are now, same personality to make it simple but we happen to be a pure Palestinian living in Palestine. Do not say or imply anything at all that shows that you're an American, I know it's hard, but really think hard because that is what it takes to get there. Now, having thought long and hard about it... give us your take on the last 70 years of your country's history and how you feel about Israel, USA, Europe, Iran, and other Arabs.

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

Two million people came out for President Obama's inauguration proving he is mighty popular. George Bush never pulled that many out.

Many months ago, I predicted that he was a new broom sweeping clean the nation and making way for a new era. He relates to world leaders and understands their problems with an empathy that surprises.

George Bush took the view that he was World Boss and other countries were "with him or agin him". No one appreciated his arrogance.

Bush has recently admitted that there never were "weapons of mass production in Iraq". 100,000 people have died so far over that original lie to get backers for his war, and I am pleased he finally came clean with the truth. John Howard got chucked out of Power in Australia for backing Bush and it has cost a huge amount of money to beef up security over there in Australia.

The Law of karma simply means that when you do good samarthon acts of kindness, you will be repaid one hundred fold in many different ways during your life-time. And if you fire rockets on Israel, then expect the karma energy to work in reverse and punish you a hundred-fold. I don't live in the Middle East, but it is a religous hot spot and America should keep out of it. It is beyond our understanding.

When the two countries are ready for a Permanent Peace, they will shake hands and forgive each other for past sins, in accordance to the Ten Commandments. For a long time, "an eye for an eye" and "a tooth for a tooth" has prevailed from the First Testament. We tend to follow the Second Testament and reckon we know better.

There is no way that any American can even begin to understand the Middle East tensions. War is an ever constant threat over there, it is like 911 happening over and over again. We don't appreciate how lucky we are to be so far away from the real problems of the world. Every meal they have, they say their prayers for being lucky to still be alive a few more hours.

Religous wars cannot be stopped, too many kids have had their legs blown off, the desire for revenge prevails. There is only one God, but several interpretations of the truth. How can we be sure which interpretation is correct when we live so far away?

The First Bush President was the best one. Wait for Nelson Mandela to shake Barrick Obama's hand, that is the next significant thing to happen.

Please type his name correctly. It is Barack... which comes from the proto-semetic word BRK or blessed. Other variations of the proto-semetic include Barouch (Hebrew), Berek (Persian), Biruk (Ethiopian Semetic), Bereka (Ethiopian Omotic), Bahruk or Behruq (Southern Arabic).... and Barriqi (Old Arabic pre 17th c.). But so far no Barrick can be found so I'm not sure why you keep using that.

 

[Hungrylips]

Second, it was Clinton who signed NAFTA into law. Do the homework. Reagan may have introduced it but Billy Boy signed it. As President, he did not have to enact NAFTA.

Canada-United States Free Trade Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read the date.
However the article gets it wrong, PM Mulroney didn't originate the idea. The White House approached him to introduce it as if it was his own idea. Lyin' Brian Mulroney was so used to sucking Reagan's dick that he did as he was told. The USA hasn't ever abided by the agreements except when it is to their advantage anyhow.

 

[MsGary]

Gohead,
I also PREY for Palestine and other nations

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

Yes, she exists!!

DUM DUM DUUUUUM!! she waits for more responses she does!

 

[servomarito]

God Bless America and the EX President of the United States!
www Bush!!!

 

[blkoralslaveboy]

I'm sorry but it doesn't matter if it was useless or unoccupied land! By that argument then why don't we give Mexicans fleeing the harsh realities of their country some harsh and unoccupied land here in the states and let them develop it? To ignore the first 4000 years and begin their story in the middle of the 20th century isn't exactly objective research my friend.
It isn't fair to completely disregard HUMAN BEINGS and reassign a chunk of land around them citing that they do not have any documented proof to be there. There's a document, the Bible, that proves they've been there a good while.
As of world war 2 the British were stepping out of more than 3 centuries of imperialism. The adult generation of the time grew up seeped in imperialistic tradition and only gave a damn about how bad it is for someone to take over your land when the Germans did on to them, in principle, what they had for long been doing to others. The British Mandate, therefore has it's place in a rhino's ass if you ask me.
I've heard other theories that the Europeans awarded them this hostile area so that the Arabs could finish off what the Germans (and Russians) couldn't. I've also heard that America was considered and, quite honestly it would have been fair considering the MILLIONS of European immigrants that came here in the previous century or so. But that the American Jews protested their coreligionists' coming here because it would likely lower their social standing as a group.
Personally, I believe all of this doesn't matter. Yes Israel is our ally in name, but really we're their benefactors for a right wing religious-based reason-- a reason which by the way openly contradicts the constitution. I believe that we have to recognize that land as both Israel and Palestine. I believe that there ARE ethnic Palestinians. And I believe the solution is complete disarmament of that region, and perhaps a long term occupation of that region by outside forces. You see I don't think Iraq was our fight.. you might think differently... but this is our fight because we and the Brits decided to put the two cocks in the cage.
But I know this will never happen so Ouiyyy...

the area which was the British Mandate after WWI made up all the land now part of Jordan, Israel, and the so-called "Occupied territories."

That part of the BM that was west of the Jordan was virtually empty and considered useless land. there were a few scattered villages and some nomadic "tribes" but it was not land that anyone wanted.

when the proposition came forth that one way to deal with anti-semietism was to re-establish a Jewish homeland, it was PURPOSELY decided to give them the land no one else wanted.

So the BM was divided - 75% of it would go to the Arabs living in the area, 25% of it would go to the Jews. After more arguing and negotiations even some of that 25% was taken back and what was left to the Jews was a scraggly, disjointed strip of land that was at some points as litle as 10 miles wide. Over 80% of the available territory went to the Arabs.

STILL they were pissed that dirty Jews would be settled in their midsts and the resented it. the jews, on the other hand, set to work building a country out of the rocks and swamps that had been allotted to them and since they were generally more wealthy than the Arabs at the time, they hired much Arab labor to do a lot of the work. The Arabs were not to proud to take the Jewish money even if they didn't like them.

After a Jewish independent state was declared, and the surrounding Arab nations attacked, a great many of these Arab workers were cut off and became refugees and the Arab nations refused to take them in because suffering refugees made an effective political tool against Israel on the world stage.

THESE workers, all former residents of surrounding Arab nations ((Egypt, Syria, and Jordan primarily) and their descendants ARE the "Palestinians"

Very VERY few of them can trace their ancestry to one of those villages that were in Palestine at the time of the British Mandate.

Do you know where Yassar Arafat was born?

Egypt.

Look it up. THERE is your typical "Palestinian." They ARE Victims alright, victims of their own ethnic brothers. Pawns (often wiling pawns, deluded and brainwashed by the propaganda they are surrounded by from birth, but pawns nonetheless) in a greater political struggle.

Ask yourself - in the struggle of Jew vs. Arab - WHICH side (and there is only one) is pledged to the complete eradication of the other side, the total non-existence of their opponent?

How does that side get to claim the moral high ground on ANY question of the conflict?

 

[lewis]

I think he was a great president. We were never attacked again and this country was safe from the rag heads doing another 911 on us. People blame him for NAFTA and the housing crisis. All those bills were signed by Billy Clinton. Everyone gets a house. If you are recieving welfare, you cannot live in a $200.000 home. Do the math. But then again he fooled so many people and now it has caught up with these people who tried to live above their means. Brace yourself America. The 20th is getting near and the new President takes over. You know the rag heads are going to see if he has balls. Bush sure did and didn't let anyone push us around. I say quit all aid to foreign countries and bail ourselves out first. We have been helping other countries for so long and they are quick to cut our throats. Let the USA cut their life lines and see who comes begging....God Bless America.

Whether Bush or Clinton were great presidents depends mostly on if you're a Dem or a Republican period. Saying its because Bush that we did not get attack again has no more prove than folks who say its because he ignore signs/signals/warnings of an attack by terrorist thats why it happened. Clinton did allow some of the policies that allowed banks to play with our money, but so did Republican senator phil Gramham, and don't forget Clintion was more fiscally responsible and give us the biggest tax break( on the sale of your home) . Bush start a great problem of buying loose Soviet Nuclear weapon when ever they surfaced and he honestly thought he could remake the middle East, how ever it prove to be too hard for us to do without more deaths, money, and time.
From what I have witness over the years, Dems/Repubicans tend to ignore the short commings of their parties President and blame it on some conspiracy theroy or the liberal media,,,,,,,,,,what an objective way to get to the bottom of our problems.:clap: