first people DONT HIJACK OTHER"S THREADS PLEASE.
Mino you posted the following to me directly in the recent 'Marijauna' post.
"Pooch, I appreciate your openness despite your admission of apparently being closed to any ideas that have already been commonly labeled / branded "conspiracy theories". I don't care to debate the 911 issue nor convince anyone of anything. All I mean to do is bear witness; to make a statement such as this for those who are already mentally capable and psychologically prepared to hear it; to create a spark of interest for those to whom the current state of affairs in this country and the world don't really make much sense anymore in light of "conventional wisdom” and the “truth” we are fed by mainstream media and who are willing to reconsider their naïve notions of how big governments, including ours in the US, really work and to what lengths powerful, little advertised arms of even our own government will go to achieve their ends.
Too many people in this country simply cannot handle the personal, psychological impact of considering (let alone discovering) that the “holy” US government is capable of carrying out unspeakable crimes against humanity and even its own people. Too many people in this country are still psychologically fractured having been nothing less than brainwashed from an early age: to think only “Pro-American”, that America is always the “good guy” in any conflict; to even consider the possibility that this country is capable of ever being the true villain; to think that the spin called “Manifest Destiny” in this country was a truly great thing and not the horrible genocide of Native Americans that in fact it actually was; to think that our policies in Haiti are “democratic” when the historical truth reveals quite the opposite; to think that only people like Hitler (i.e. non-Americans) are capable of destroying their own people’s house of congress and blaming it on foreign terrorists (in the case of Hitler, the Russians). The list is long and the obvious conclusions revealing for anyone who has the time, intelligence, psychological health to research these things for themselves honestly, rationally and objectively. Of course to discover the truth one must also be able to think and reason for themselves as opposed to simply accepting the pre-digested “truth” from their favorite author or “bought” network with its particular “money-driven”, and not necessarily truth-driven, agendas.
Pooch, there is plenty of information on 911 available on the internet. I will tell you now if you undertake this, since you apparently haven’t already discovered the truth of 911, you will be in for a challenge, one you may find quite unsettling to say the least. If you like to challenge yourself and to learn something about yourself in the process; if you can sort and rationally weigh numerous conflicting facts for yourself; if you can identify impossibilities; if you like to weigh possibilities v.s. probabilities, and reweigh as you find more pieces to the puzzle while keeping all options in play until the obvious “most probable truth” reveals itself; if you can accept that most probable truth once you find it; if you think you have an open, rational mind and can remember all you know about human beings (regardless of their nationality, politics, etc), their mixed, illogical nature and particularly the nature / relationship of power to corruption; and if you have the time and the “where with all” to pursue your own research I would highly encourage you to do so.
I’ll offer you this to start, but then I’m bowing out. I WILL NOT DEBATE THE 911 ISSUE. I don’t know what you believe about the nature and relationship of power to corruption, but I believe the famous, well taught / studied / debated quote by Lord Acton in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887 is basically true. The quote is: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." If you can basically agree with this quote, and are willing to consider, for example, the genocide of Native Americans as an atrocity committed by the government of the United States as evidence of Lord Acton’s position and America’s vulnerability to at least sometimes being the bad guy, then it stands to reason that it is at least possible that the most powerful nation on the earth is capable of again delivering the most corrupt atrocities against its new “Native Americans”.
Whether one believes this country to be guilty of such corruption on 911 or not, a sane individual must at least acknowledge that it is possible. And this is the first step. Unfortunately the fact is that too few people can even get this far in their reasoning; and fewer still, given the implications of what it would mean to our democracy if elements of our own government delivered a home-grown 911 upon its own citizens, give this the personal, critical investigation a true, thriving democracy deserves from its dutiful, diligent citizens. In short, too many American’s have allowed themselves to be blinded and don’t really give a shit. We have been lead to believe we are all contributing members of a great democracy, but improperly regulated capitalism at the hands of a powerful and too easily corrupted government has turned us primarily into insatiable consumers. Issues affecting consumption are the “citizen’s” top priority now, and we have little energy left over (after working our jobs to pay our taxes to pay for big business bailouts brought about by their own corruption and for wars designed primarily to benefit the rich who benefit from the “industry of war”) to be diligently watchful of our government as admonished by the founding fathers of this country.
In some regards little has changed since the 60’s, except perhaps the leaders are getting better at executing their deceptions. Some citizens are awake, watchful and exercising their duties to their democracy and what this country is supposed to stand for. Too many are making excuses, regenerating their own delusions about what is real, about what is possible, about what it right, and are in fact the unwitting enemies of what this country, this idea called America, is supposed to be about. I appreciate that it’s a difficult and confusing thing to grasp, let alone manage, when the most dangerous enemies of this country are in fact those of the unwitting kind, the first and loudest to wave the flag and boldly claim, “This country love it or leave it”, the first to proudly proclaim their intolerance of the opinions and solutions of others, the first to be so clearly, and ironically, undemocratic."
Let me say that you did respond when i said that i dont believe in conspiraciy theories, which I generally don't, but not until i hear them out first...for my mind is open, which is why i suggested you post your'es in a seperate thread.
Concerning 911 conspiracy theories...I have read some, seen a show on History Channel about them too. I was asking you to state youre's for I was wondering if you had a new one, something with some tangible evidence, different from what I had already heard, and subsequently dismissed for lack of proof, for I am interested always in others opinions..then i make my own decisions/choices/deductions.
Typical of most conspiracy people...you failed to offer anything other than complaints about the govt...which in thereselves are not not without some basis, for power does and has corrupted in our and prob every govt in the history of the world. You mentioned Haiti...well give some facts..not just a blanket statement...Here is one...in WWII we put Japanese Americans ..our own citizens in intermnment camps....our govt later admitted its wrongs, but the damage was done. I'm no expert on foreign or even domestic affairs and i dont know exactly what is going on in Haitti, Guatamono, Korea, Iraq, or even the good ole usa. Personally I think that the Mafia along with some Govt officials took out JFK and later Bobby. so i am not without skepticissm about the Govt. but 911 I dont see it.
the 911 theorists have not given any real tangible evidence or proven any coup or anything to dismiss Al Qaida...and Bin Laden...who has been a world and US nemesis going back to Bush Sr. and Clinton Presidency. What benefit did the US govt gain from bringing down the WTC? lets see...major recession, killing stock market, high unemployment? to do what...create a war? well the liberals will surely tell you already that Bush created his own war (lets leave that as sep debate) with Iraq for purely political and financial gains..ie..War has typically been good for the economy... well that sure hasnt been the case here has it? Al Quaida has continued its terror around the world...as seen by last weeks murder in Pakistan. Did the US govt do that too? I just dont buy it. Bring some real facts to the table not just rhetoric so we can have a real debate Mino, otherwise you are just bitching and moaning.
Mino you posted the following to me directly in the recent 'Marijauna' post.
"Pooch, I appreciate your openness despite your admission of apparently being closed to any ideas that have already been commonly labeled / branded "conspiracy theories". I don't care to debate the 911 issue nor convince anyone of anything. All I mean to do is bear witness; to make a statement such as this for those who are already mentally capable and psychologically prepared to hear it; to create a spark of interest for those to whom the current state of affairs in this country and the world don't really make much sense anymore in light of "conventional wisdom” and the “truth” we are fed by mainstream media and who are willing to reconsider their naïve notions of how big governments, including ours in the US, really work and to what lengths powerful, little advertised arms of even our own government will go to achieve their ends.
Too many people in this country simply cannot handle the personal, psychological impact of considering (let alone discovering) that the “holy” US government is capable of carrying out unspeakable crimes against humanity and even its own people. Too many people in this country are still psychologically fractured having been nothing less than brainwashed from an early age: to think only “Pro-American”, that America is always the “good guy” in any conflict; to even consider the possibility that this country is capable of ever being the true villain; to think that the spin called “Manifest Destiny” in this country was a truly great thing and not the horrible genocide of Native Americans that in fact it actually was; to think that our policies in Haiti are “democratic” when the historical truth reveals quite the opposite; to think that only people like Hitler (i.e. non-Americans) are capable of destroying their own people’s house of congress and blaming it on foreign terrorists (in the case of Hitler, the Russians). The list is long and the obvious conclusions revealing for anyone who has the time, intelligence, psychological health to research these things for themselves honestly, rationally and objectively. Of course to discover the truth one must also be able to think and reason for themselves as opposed to simply accepting the pre-digested “truth” from their favorite author or “bought” network with its particular “money-driven”, and not necessarily truth-driven, agendas.
Pooch, there is plenty of information on 911 available on the internet. I will tell you now if you undertake this, since you apparently haven’t already discovered the truth of 911, you will be in for a challenge, one you may find quite unsettling to say the least. If you like to challenge yourself and to learn something about yourself in the process; if you can sort and rationally weigh numerous conflicting facts for yourself; if you can identify impossibilities; if you like to weigh possibilities v.s. probabilities, and reweigh as you find more pieces to the puzzle while keeping all options in play until the obvious “most probable truth” reveals itself; if you can accept that most probable truth once you find it; if you think you have an open, rational mind and can remember all you know about human beings (regardless of their nationality, politics, etc), their mixed, illogical nature and particularly the nature / relationship of power to corruption; and if you have the time and the “where with all” to pursue your own research I would highly encourage you to do so.
I’ll offer you this to start, but then I’m bowing out. I WILL NOT DEBATE THE 911 ISSUE. I don’t know what you believe about the nature and relationship of power to corruption, but I believe the famous, well taught / studied / debated quote by Lord Acton in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887 is basically true. The quote is: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." If you can basically agree with this quote, and are willing to consider, for example, the genocide of Native Americans as an atrocity committed by the government of the United States as evidence of Lord Acton’s position and America’s vulnerability to at least sometimes being the bad guy, then it stands to reason that it is at least possible that the most powerful nation on the earth is capable of again delivering the most corrupt atrocities against its new “Native Americans”.
Whether one believes this country to be guilty of such corruption on 911 or not, a sane individual must at least acknowledge that it is possible. And this is the first step. Unfortunately the fact is that too few people can even get this far in their reasoning; and fewer still, given the implications of what it would mean to our democracy if elements of our own government delivered a home-grown 911 upon its own citizens, give this the personal, critical investigation a true, thriving democracy deserves from its dutiful, diligent citizens. In short, too many American’s have allowed themselves to be blinded and don’t really give a shit. We have been lead to believe we are all contributing members of a great democracy, but improperly regulated capitalism at the hands of a powerful and too easily corrupted government has turned us primarily into insatiable consumers. Issues affecting consumption are the “citizen’s” top priority now, and we have little energy left over (after working our jobs to pay our taxes to pay for big business bailouts brought about by their own corruption and for wars designed primarily to benefit the rich who benefit from the “industry of war”) to be diligently watchful of our government as admonished by the founding fathers of this country.
In some regards little has changed since the 60’s, except perhaps the leaders are getting better at executing their deceptions. Some citizens are awake, watchful and exercising their duties to their democracy and what this country is supposed to stand for. Too many are making excuses, regenerating their own delusions about what is real, about what is possible, about what it right, and are in fact the unwitting enemies of what this country, this idea called America, is supposed to be about. I appreciate that it’s a difficult and confusing thing to grasp, let alone manage, when the most dangerous enemies of this country are in fact those of the unwitting kind, the first and loudest to wave the flag and boldly claim, “This country love it or leave it”, the first to proudly proclaim their intolerance of the opinions and solutions of others, the first to be so clearly, and ironically, undemocratic."
Let me say that you did respond when i said that i dont believe in conspiraciy theories, which I generally don't, but not until i hear them out first...for my mind is open, which is why i suggested you post your'es in a seperate thread.
Concerning 911 conspiracy theories...I have read some, seen a show on History Channel about them too. I was asking you to state youre's for I was wondering if you had a new one, something with some tangible evidence, different from what I had already heard, and subsequently dismissed for lack of proof, for I am interested always in others opinions..then i make my own decisions/choices/deductions.
Typical of most conspiracy people...you failed to offer anything other than complaints about the govt...which in thereselves are not not without some basis, for power does and has corrupted in our and prob every govt in the history of the world. You mentioned Haiti...well give some facts..not just a blanket statement...Here is one...in WWII we put Japanese Americans ..our own citizens in intermnment camps....our govt later admitted its wrongs, but the damage was done. I'm no expert on foreign or even domestic affairs and i dont know exactly what is going on in Haitti, Guatamono, Korea, Iraq, or even the good ole usa. Personally I think that the Mafia along with some Govt officials took out JFK and later Bobby. so i am not without skepticissm about the Govt. but 911 I dont see it.
the 911 theorists have not given any real tangible evidence or proven any coup or anything to dismiss Al Qaida...and Bin Laden...who has been a world and US nemesis going back to Bush Sr. and Clinton Presidency. What benefit did the US govt gain from bringing down the WTC? lets see...major recession, killing stock market, high unemployment? to do what...create a war? well the liberals will surely tell you already that Bush created his own war (lets leave that as sep debate) with Iraq for purely political and financial gains..ie..War has typically been good for the economy... well that sure hasnt been the case here has it? Al Quaida has continued its terror around the world...as seen by last weeks murder in Pakistan. Did the US govt do that too? I just dont buy it. Bring some real facts to the table not just rhetoric so we can have a real debate Mino, otherwise you are just bitching and moaning.
I don't blame you. You're a wise man Randy. Lucky you, I'm jealous. 