stacy-swf said:As north americans we all have some blame at the mess we`re in .We all want everthing cheap, why does wal-mart do so well.Buying over in china on the cheap selling here.Not to mention corp greed. And the real kicker is has any laws been past to stop this from happening again.
SaltandPepper98 said:Offhand I have two problems with the auto bailout (or loan). First, it is a short term fix and they will almost surely be back in a few months for more. And then more and more and more. Hey what the hell, the UAW's best friends will be in control soon. Barney Frank who unfortunately is the congressman of my district, has said that "the days of union busting are now over".
Which brings me to my other concern. How do you justify to the average worker in this country that he has to subsidize workers who make 150% more than he does?
You all know how government works. You build a bridge that will cost one million and then ten million later you find it will cost another twenty million and you can't stop now because you have ten million already invested in it. They are sucking us in with this 15 billion figure and it will solve nothing.
I agree with Ro. They have to downsize. They are making too many cars just like the home builders were making too many houses. The easiest and fastest way to downsize is to go bankrupt and restructure. Too many people think going bankrupt means you go out of business and all the people lose their jobs. That is not always so and would not be the case in this instance.
And Mule is right. Now the government will be calling the shots with the financial industry. Do we want them calling the shots with the auto industry too? They are already talking about an "Auto Industry Czar". If you think Detroit is making cars that nobody wants now, wait till the Gov makes them build little ugly death trap cars like they have in Europe. Although on second thought we may have to buy them since the new Energy Czar that Obama just picked wants gas to be the same price as in Europe.
Norm
SaltandPepper98 said:I don't for one second believe that a government that can't run a post office efficiently can make cars better than a car company anymore than they can find oil better than an oil company. How many barrels of oil has the Energy Dept found after all.
SaltandPepper98 said:A company makes the products people want or they go bankrupt. And should go bankrupt. That's what has happened to the AMERICAN car companies. They made too many cars that people didn't want. At least at the price that Detroit needed to get. The sweetheart retirement benefits that they never should have agreed to finally came home to roost and now they have to pay the price.
SaltandPepper98 said:And don't give me the scare tactics because I for one don't believe them. Sure some folks will get laid off because the entire industry has to downsize. BUT NOT ALL OF THEM! And most all will get other jobs albeit at more average pay and benefits.
SaltandPepper98 said:I find it difficult to believe that there are people so naive in this world that they think that a bunch of bureaucrats can run/control private industry. Even after seeing examples of what happens when government controls industry such as in the old East and West Germany or North and South Korea. You couldn't come up with better lab experiments than taking a country of one people/race and cutting it in half and having the government run things in one and private industry run things in the other.
SaltandPepper98 said:I'm guessing that Toyota and Honda would love the government to control what cars are made in Detroit.
blkoralslaveboy said:I doubt it--since government involvement is likely to SAVE those companies...i don't think you thought that question out too well. Furthermore, those two companies are approaching their own governments for some form of aide as well.
I really don't know what more you could want! The packages reached their destinations in the correct (or acceptable) amounts of time for far less money in some cases. If the USPS wanted it could match the prices of UPS and probably make a profit or re-invest to run things more efficiently. Were that the case do you think FEDEX an UPS are going to keep things as they are? NOPE price hike for their management bonuses and pay raise.SaltandPepper98 said:Sorry BOSB but that article doesn't prove your point to me at all. It said that the only area that the Postal Service beat UPS and FEDEX in overnight delivery (which it couldn't even guarantee) was price. And I believe that is because it subsidizes that part of the business from the parts of the business that is government protected from competition.
Getting 42 cents to send a letter across the street and 42 cents to send a letter across the country is not efficient. And using the same cubbyhole and sack system that Ben Franklin invented doesn't give me much hope of it ever really competing on its own in the near future either.
As usual, if the Postal Service had to become private and compete it would have to downsize and lower pay and benefits. Anything else is would be just another taxpayer subsidy.
SaltandPepper98 said:Ok my friend I have thought that over again.
Lets say I am Toyota. I want the Detroit auto industry "saved" because first, it will keep the auto parts industry such as Johnson Controls, Delphi etc. in business and I want them in business because THEY ALSO SELL PARTS TO ME FOR MY CARS!
Second, I want the Government to use a carrot and stick approach in dealing with Detroit. I want them to tell Detroit "If you want more money, you make the types of cars we want you to make". Because you see BOSB, I know that Detroit couldn't compete with me before because of their costs and now that the Government is in effect a partner, they will have a much less chance of competing with me. But if Detroit goes completely under, how will my potential customers compare my superior product if there is nothing to compare it with?
And if the Gov bailout does indeed "save millions and millions and millions" of jobs, well, that's just dandy for me since they were buying MY cars to begin with and now they can continue to do so.
No, I stand by what I said. (unless of course Ro comes in and kicks my ass and proves me wrong again in which case I will agree with her) I don't believe Toyota or Honda want the Detroit auto industry to go under. If they go into bankruptcy and restructure and come out of it lean and mean from restructuring those union contracts, then Toyota and Honda will have something to worry about. They will for the first time have real competition. After all, say what you will about American cars, they still have the best styling and the quality is now on par with the Japanese. They are just not a good value at the price Detroit needs to get for them.
Norm
RoSquirts said:Actually salt, for the most part I agree with you.