Our "new norm"
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Okay so I guess that's where I should start then.
Mind you we'd been talking on/off all along but it was Christmas Eve when we found ourselves alone for a while after everything was done and cleaned up. I knew that we weren't going to be having sex at all that night, not when we were going to be up pretty early the next morning and have visitors over during the day, and I had just masturbated with her the night before when some of what we continued talking about started.
She again started telling me that I should stop fighting what turns me on and just enjoy it and she said that she feels I am tense and anxious about it at times. I told her honestly that while it really turned me on to be doing what we were, that a part of me seemed to be reluctant to let go. She looked at me and asked me if I missed fucking her like Paul does. She said it straight-up like that and asked me if I missed it and if it was worth it to me to miss it if it made me feel good. I can't remember what I said but I guess it sort of came out that in some ways I don't know if it feels okay to me to - and I guess maybe she was right in how she interpreted it - but as we talked it sort of came out that I didn't feel comfortable at times showing her how much it turned me on knowing it meant that it was less sexual contact between us. She was the one who held me and said that it wouldn't change a thing no matter what turned me on, and that's what she wanted me to really understand, that despite or in light of what turns me on, it doesn't change how she feels about me. She actually said that it would make her feel wonderful if I could ever fully open up to her and share what really turns me on and how I really feel about it. She held my hand and I remember this so clearly - she said she'd listened to me a lot over the past few years and she said to me something like "I know it really turns you on that I do things with Paul that I don't with you" and then she said it "I know you like knowing that, knowing that I enjoy sex with him an not with you". She immediately said that it wasn't how it sounded but I also knew that there was some truth in that so I asked her as clearly as I could whether that was okay with her, that she enjoyed it with him and not (as much) with me and she said yes.
I guess I must have showed how I felt because she held me tightly and said that she's felt that way for a while now, and she looked at me and said that once she felt I really wanted to be the "beta thing" as she puts it, that she let herself go with it. She told me that now, she has sex with me more because she knows "we" need it and that I need it but she also said that I should know that it is much better with Paul. She said that she never fakes it with me and I believe that, there are some feelings and sensations that can't be faked, but she also said that over time she's found herself wanting it more with him than with me.
Thing was she looked at me and said "isn't this what you wanted?" And she asked me if there was anything that I would want to be different and before I could answer she asked me "do YOU enjoy it more now and are YOU getting what you wanted is more the question?". She held my hand and she said that as long as I was turned on and enjoying it, that I should just let myself enjoy it and not worry so much about everything. I told her that I was more concerned with how things were changing between us and she said to me "so, I cum with him instead of you?" and she said "that's really all it is baby, the rest is what you and I make from it". She looked at me and asked again "how is it for you?" and she added that it certainly seems to be good - and she reminded me of how full the condoms are sometimes.
I guess she finally wore me down or got through to me because I told her that while a part of me hated it, the other parts of me - so much more - really found it arousing and fulfilling to use condoms with her. She asked me why and I told her that somehow not having her - knowing that Paul has that part of her - is something that just turns me on - as if she's keeping that from me as a secret or something that I'll only get to have at some point in the future. She asked me if it was too much with Paul and whether the weekends away skiing will be okay. She said that they are sometimes playful when they're messing around and she said "you and I used to do that too, remember" and then she added that she wants to feel like she can be free to be with him as she wants to be when we're away and that I'm not going to get all upset or moody. I told her that I will be okay but that at the end of that weekend I am so going to want her. She smiled and giggled and told me "see, that's what I want us and you to feel" and she said "when we get home I'm sure you'll have your turn".
She asked me whether I missed feeling her bare and whether I enjoyed using condoms or not. I told her honestly that it just felt good to not cum in her and that yes, I so missed feeling her bare, but at the same time, it is just more of the same - that knowing Paul has her freely is something that I want to have continue. She smiled when I said "it just feels right to me somehow". She asked me if the things she's been doing with me have been helping me and I told her honestly yes, that I am feeling more secure in things with her and that her openness has kept it incredibly sexy - including her "anatomy lessons" which made her laugh and add "well you should know what he gets to feel" which I knew was intended to turn me on and make it clear what she was emphasizing to me.
She started to steer the conversation again towards whether I enjoyed the condom play we are doing and I again told her yes. "And you like what that means, right?" among other things she asked me made me realize she still wanted me to talk more and I remember coming out and saying "yes baby, it turns me on that you take him bare" to which she answered "and not you?". Which did make me groan but I told her yes. She encouraged me to tell her more and eventually asked me what the "most intense part is" for me. I had to tell her honestly that it was when I heard and saw him and knew he was cumming in her. She let out a "mmmm" sigh for a second and asked me if that turned me on and I said yes. And again she asked me "and that you don't get to do that?" and I just said "yeah, that's part of it".
She turned to me and asked me if I've thought about next year yet and I realized what she was asking so I said to her "what do you want?" and she smiled and said "I asked you first but how you answer won't change how I feel about you". I asked her if she'd tell me honestly what she would want after I answered her and she said yes. So I said yes to continuing in 2016 with me not cumming in her. A moment later I looked at her and asked her what her answer would have been if she went first and she said "I'd have said the same as you baby, I want to enjoy this as long as we can".
Now there was more we talked about but I think that's the gist of what led up to her taking some time on Christmas morning to write up those "coupons". She later told me that she'd been thinking about giving me them but didn't want to if I didn't feel that I wanted to continue what we were doing.
For Danwcap - no - she, at least for now, says that "we" still need to have sex together, just that for the most part, it's now at her discretion and desire, these coupons she said will give me a few times that I can say when I want to have it if she's not so much in the mood or if I just need to feel her or something. She hinted that maybe I'd save the 2 bare coupons for when/if we go away someplace romantic next year.
Since then, we've talked openly about enjoying New Years Eve and again planning some kind of ceremony of sorts to mark going into 2016. I reminded her that last New Years Eve I'd cum in her and she giggled and said "well, that's not happening this year" but then added "oh, we'll have fun, just you don't get that honey". And as she said that she came up to me and said "see, that's the sort of playfulness and openness I want to have between us about this" and she took me aside and we talked and she said that she doesn't want to have to have this sex with Paul thing just be when we're in bed or in a sexy mood together, that she wants to make it something we can talk about more openly at other times. I told her that we can work at that but it may take a while!
Mind you we'd been talking on/off all along but it was Christmas Eve when we found ourselves alone for a while after everything was done and cleaned up. I knew that we weren't going to be having sex at all that night, not when we were going to be up pretty early the next morning and have visitors over during the day, and I had just masturbated with her the night before when some of what we continued talking about started.
She again started telling me that I should stop fighting what turns me on and just enjoy it and she said that she feels I am tense and anxious about it at times. I told her honestly that while it really turned me on to be doing what we were, that a part of me seemed to be reluctant to let go. She looked at me and asked me if I missed fucking her like Paul does. She said it straight-up like that and asked me if I missed it and if it was worth it to me to miss it if it made me feel good. I can't remember what I said but I guess it sort of came out that in some ways I don't know if it feels okay to me to - and I guess maybe she was right in how she interpreted it - but as we talked it sort of came out that I didn't feel comfortable at times showing her how much it turned me on knowing it meant that it was less sexual contact between us. She was the one who held me and said that it wouldn't change a thing no matter what turned me on, and that's what she wanted me to really understand, that despite or in light of what turns me on, it doesn't change how she feels about me. She actually said that it would make her feel wonderful if I could ever fully open up to her and share what really turns me on and how I really feel about it. She held my hand and I remember this so clearly - she said she'd listened to me a lot over the past few years and she said to me something like "I know it really turns you on that I do things with Paul that I don't with you" and then she said it "I know you like knowing that, knowing that I enjoy sex with him an not with you". She immediately said that it wasn't how it sounded but I also knew that there was some truth in that so I asked her as clearly as I could whether that was okay with her, that she enjoyed it with him and not (as much) with me and she said yes.
I guess I must have showed how I felt because she held me tightly and said that she's felt that way for a while now, and she looked at me and said that once she felt I really wanted to be the "beta thing" as she puts it, that she let herself go with it. She told me that now, she has sex with me more because she knows "we" need it and that I need it but she also said that I should know that it is much better with Paul. She said that she never fakes it with me and I believe that, there are some feelings and sensations that can't be faked, but she also said that over time she's found herself wanting it more with him than with me.
Thing was she looked at me and said "isn't this what you wanted?" And she asked me if there was anything that I would want to be different and before I could answer she asked me "do YOU enjoy it more now and are YOU getting what you wanted is more the question?". She held my hand and she said that as long as I was turned on and enjoying it, that I should just let myself enjoy it and not worry so much about everything. I told her that I was more concerned with how things were changing between us and she said to me "so, I cum with him instead of you?" and she said "that's really all it is baby, the rest is what you and I make from it". She looked at me and asked again "how is it for you?" and she added that it certainly seems to be good - and she reminded me of how full the condoms are sometimes.
I guess she finally wore me down or got through to me because I told her that while a part of me hated it, the other parts of me - so much more - really found it arousing and fulfilling to use condoms with her. She asked me why and I told her that somehow not having her - knowing that Paul has that part of her - is something that just turns me on - as if she's keeping that from me as a secret or something that I'll only get to have at some point in the future. She asked me if it was too much with Paul and whether the weekends away skiing will be okay. She said that they are sometimes playful when they're messing around and she said "you and I used to do that too, remember" and then she added that she wants to feel like she can be free to be with him as she wants to be when we're away and that I'm not going to get all upset or moody. I told her that I will be okay but that at the end of that weekend I am so going to want her. She smiled and giggled and told me "see, that's what I want us and you to feel" and she said "when we get home I'm sure you'll have your turn".
She asked me whether I missed feeling her bare and whether I enjoyed using condoms or not. I told her honestly that it just felt good to not cum in her and that yes, I so missed feeling her bare, but at the same time, it is just more of the same - that knowing Paul has her freely is something that I want to have continue. She smiled when I said "it just feels right to me somehow". She asked me if the things she's been doing with me have been helping me and I told her honestly yes, that I am feeling more secure in things with her and that her openness has kept it incredibly sexy - including her "anatomy lessons" which made her laugh and add "well you should know what he gets to feel" which I knew was intended to turn me on and make it clear what she was emphasizing to me.
She started to steer the conversation again towards whether I enjoyed the condom play we are doing and I again told her yes. "And you like what that means, right?" among other things she asked me made me realize she still wanted me to talk more and I remember coming out and saying "yes baby, it turns me on that you take him bare" to which she answered "and not you?". Which did make me groan but I told her yes. She encouraged me to tell her more and eventually asked me what the "most intense part is" for me. I had to tell her honestly that it was when I heard and saw him and knew he was cumming in her. She let out a "mmmm" sigh for a second and asked me if that turned me on and I said yes. And again she asked me "and that you don't get to do that?" and I just said "yeah, that's part of it".
She turned to me and asked me if I've thought about next year yet and I realized what she was asking so I said to her "what do you want?" and she smiled and said "I asked you first but how you answer won't change how I feel about you". I asked her if she'd tell me honestly what she would want after I answered her and she said yes. So I said yes to continuing in 2016 with me not cumming in her. A moment later I looked at her and asked her what her answer would have been if she went first and she said "I'd have said the same as you baby, I want to enjoy this as long as we can".
Now there was more we talked about but I think that's the gist of what led up to her taking some time on Christmas morning to write up those "coupons". She later told me that she'd been thinking about giving me them but didn't want to if I didn't feel that I wanted to continue what we were doing.
For Danwcap - no - she, at least for now, says that "we" still need to have sex together, just that for the most part, it's now at her discretion and desire, these coupons she said will give me a few times that I can say when I want to have it if she's not so much in the mood or if I just need to feel her or something. She hinted that maybe I'd save the 2 bare coupons for when/if we go away someplace romantic next year.
Since then, we've talked openly about enjoying New Years Eve and again planning some kind of ceremony of sorts to mark going into 2016. I reminded her that last New Years Eve I'd cum in her and she giggled and said "well, that's not happening this year" but then added "oh, we'll have fun, just you don't get that honey". And as she said that she came up to me and said "see, that's the sort of playfulness and openness I want to have between us about this" and she took me aside and we talked and she said that she doesn't want to have to have this sex with Paul thing just be when we're in bed or in a sexy mood together, that she wants to make it something we can talk about more openly at other times. I told her that we can work at that but it may take a while!
very sexy, sounds like she is trying to pull you in a direction of "just enjoy it" versus getting too caught up in thinking about it. She is trying to convince you that despite the play, she loves you unconditionally, but she prefers her sex to be with Paul. Sounds great as long as you keep connected. It does sound to me like she is looking to space your "sex" out more and more. There is a happy medium somewhere in there with time, maybe that is what she is thinking with the coupons, but it doesn't appear that she is trying to stay away from sexual encounters with you, just penetrative sex? Go with it, I'm sure she will make sure you are okay seeing how she continues to keep the lines of communication open. Have a Happy New Years STB!
Steve,
As alway another detailed post which is indeed allowing those of us that are following your journey to have a much better idea of what you are experiencing and the continued way that the relationship is evoloving dynamicly. I must say that it is insightful in the way your handling the sexual component of the relationship between you and Sue, Sue and Paul and the overall openess outside of the bedroom that goes onlong with the evolutions of sorts.
You had a slight taste earlier this month as to what 2016 will hold for you and Sue has given you an opportunity to voice your concerns along with your desires. Sue has assured you that nothing will change in your marriage with consideration to how Sue feels about you, how you two will continue to be there for each other, you both love each other. The only exception which has noticeably become the norm is that Sue has taken Paul has her primary sexual partner and that they are exclusive with each other in many ways sexually speaking with very few exceptions (at her discretion and desire). As Sue has said, "I want to enjoy this as long as we can"
Based on your narrative, Sue has made it clear how she feels about everything in and out of the bedroom. The fact that over time she's found herself wanting it more with Paul than with you. There is truly nothing wrong with all this if you both continue to be on the same page with regard to your mutual desires, expectations and needs. As I have said before, while you may no longer have bare intercourse with Sue and while you may have a reduction in sexual contact overall I strongly believe that your intimacy overall will continue to increase.
Thank you for continuing to share with the group on this forum, enjoy your journey and have a Happy New Years.
As alway another detailed post which is indeed allowing those of us that are following your journey to have a much better idea of what you are experiencing and the continued way that the relationship is evoloving dynamicly. I must say that it is insightful in the way your handling the sexual component of the relationship between you and Sue, Sue and Paul and the overall openess outside of the bedroom that goes onlong with the evolutions of sorts.
You had a slight taste earlier this month as to what 2016 will hold for you and Sue has given you an opportunity to voice your concerns along with your desires. Sue has assured you that nothing will change in your marriage with consideration to how Sue feels about you, how you two will continue to be there for each other, you both love each other. The only exception which has noticeably become the norm is that Sue has taken Paul has her primary sexual partner and that they are exclusive with each other in many ways sexually speaking with very few exceptions (at her discretion and desire). As Sue has said, "I want to enjoy this as long as we can"
Based on your narrative, Sue has made it clear how she feels about everything in and out of the bedroom. The fact that over time she's found herself wanting it more with Paul than with you. There is truly nothing wrong with all this if you both continue to be on the same page with regard to your mutual desires, expectations and needs. As I have said before, while you may no longer have bare intercourse with Sue and while you may have a reduction in sexual contact overall I strongly believe that your intimacy overall will continue to increase.
Thank you for continuing to share with the group on this forum, enjoy your journey and have a Happy New Years.
Yeah, I think you may be right Far2. She asked me a lot of stuff and she shared some of her own thoughts too. She asked me to explain more about how I felt and what I felt. It felt a little awkward at first but she genuinely wanted to talk about it. She even shared some of her own thoughts on how she enjoys feeling and sharing sex with me and how she does orgasm with me, but she also said it's different than with Paul and not just because of the condom. She said she wants to be able to share with me that she enjoys sex with him not just because it's what turns me on any more. I listened as she told me how she likes sharing herself with him and letting him be one with her when they have sex. She told me all the talks and showing me her pussy and all of that was because she likes how she feels now that she really does look to him for her deeper sexual pleasure and that she wants to be able to feel we can share that sort of thing on an ongoing basis instead of just when she comes home from being with him or the few/fewer times that we have sex together.
and yes, she asked me how I felt about us possibly having less sex together. I told her I knew some of this was coming, and that I knew the weekends were a step in that direction. So she asked me how I felt about it and what did and didn't turn me on. I came back to the same thoughts, that I liked how it felt to want it in the short term but the longer term always worried me that we were going places we can't easily go back from. She held me tight and again said that it's not that she wants to go further, at least not right now, but that she also said she does think she's going to want it at some point - and that if that happened, that like everything else we would work it out. It felt right, I mean she was definitely sincere for sure and she asked me how it made me feel and whether that's what I wanted?
I paused for a moment and she looked at me and said "you can be honest with me baby" and that there's no reason to hide things. She giggled and said "I told you what I like - you know - feeling him in me when he cums.... it's just something that feels wonderfully special". She looked at me and said " I KNOW you like that". And she was right, I think I was scared to say it to her - not sure why - we weren't in bed and weren't talking very sexy other than just talking really - and so I told her that yeah, I did like it and that it turned me on to think about it. And then I sort of let go and told her some other stuff. I told her how it turned me on to see her naked at times when we weren't going to be having sex - like in the mornings after her shower or getting changed before bed or whatever - and I just said it - that when I see her pussy and see it shaved bare that all I can think about is Pauls semen being in her and making her pussy-lips feel all slippery from inside. She looked at me and smiled and even giggled a bit as she said "wow, you do think about very specific things.... and explicit too" and she was even a little red in the face at first but then she smiled and said "For me, it's not specific like that - it's just an overall way of feeling sexy when I think about Paul - and how I think about sharing myself with him...." she continued (and this is my recollection not her specific words) "you though, it's so focused. I never thought about that part" and she looked at me and said something about why I"m so focused on when Paul cums in her instead of her as she feels it's more of the whole time with him that culminates with their fucking and cumming.
It was a really nice moment - I have to say - that we could share something like that. I told her that I get turned on by "short moment" of thoughts like specific scenes or things. She smiled and said she hadn't ever really thought about that and she smiled and said that it explained a lot of things she'd never understood clearly. I asked her what and she said that sometimes she'd tell me about things with Paul or whatever and she thought I would want to hear about her getting turned on or whatever but that instead of telling it like a story like she'd "share with a girlfriend" she giggled and said "I should just tell you the juicy stuff" and when I said "I guess" she proceeded to say "like - if I were to tell you about a date with Paul and how we sat at the bar and talked and how he touched me and how I kissed his hand" and she smiled and then said "or would you rather me tell you that as I felt his hand on me I got wet for him.....you know, just get to the point and then tell you again about it, you know, how wet I was, rather than how he was with me?" I guess I was staring at her like I was in awe or something because she looked at me and asked if I was okay and I just told her "I love you...." and hugged her. She hugged me back and said "is that it? was I right?" and I looked at her and said "yes, my god that would be amazing".
So - while she's off at work today, I feel particularly up. Yes, I know the gloom-and-doomers are going to say "see, she doesn't even want sex with you now" and "see she wants more with Paul" and they're right in terms of sex - but my god, after talking like this so openly and honestly with her now for a few days, it's hard to even think that she has anything other than love for me.
and yes, she asked me how I felt about us possibly having less sex together. I told her I knew some of this was coming, and that I knew the weekends were a step in that direction. So she asked me how I felt about it and what did and didn't turn me on. I came back to the same thoughts, that I liked how it felt to want it in the short term but the longer term always worried me that we were going places we can't easily go back from. She held me tight and again said that it's not that she wants to go further, at least not right now, but that she also said she does think she's going to want it at some point - and that if that happened, that like everything else we would work it out. It felt right, I mean she was definitely sincere for sure and she asked me how it made me feel and whether that's what I wanted?
I paused for a moment and she looked at me and said "you can be honest with me baby" and that there's no reason to hide things. She giggled and said "I told you what I like - you know - feeling him in me when he cums.... it's just something that feels wonderfully special". She looked at me and said " I KNOW you like that". And she was right, I think I was scared to say it to her - not sure why - we weren't in bed and weren't talking very sexy other than just talking really - and so I told her that yeah, I did like it and that it turned me on to think about it. And then I sort of let go and told her some other stuff. I told her how it turned me on to see her naked at times when we weren't going to be having sex - like in the mornings after her shower or getting changed before bed or whatever - and I just said it - that when I see her pussy and see it shaved bare that all I can think about is Pauls semen being in her and making her pussy-lips feel all slippery from inside. She looked at me and smiled and even giggled a bit as she said "wow, you do think about very specific things.... and explicit too" and she was even a little red in the face at first but then she smiled and said "For me, it's not specific like that - it's just an overall way of feeling sexy when I think about Paul - and how I think about sharing myself with him...." she continued (and this is my recollection not her specific words) "you though, it's so focused. I never thought about that part" and she looked at me and said something about why I"m so focused on when Paul cums in her instead of her as she feels it's more of the whole time with him that culminates with their fucking and cumming.
It was a really nice moment - I have to say - that we could share something like that. I told her that I get turned on by "short moment" of thoughts like specific scenes or things. She smiled and said she hadn't ever really thought about that and she smiled and said that it explained a lot of things she'd never understood clearly. I asked her what and she said that sometimes she'd tell me about things with Paul or whatever and she thought I would want to hear about her getting turned on or whatever but that instead of telling it like a story like she'd "share with a girlfriend" she giggled and said "I should just tell you the juicy stuff" and when I said "I guess" she proceeded to say "like - if I were to tell you about a date with Paul and how we sat at the bar and talked and how he touched me and how I kissed his hand" and she smiled and then said "or would you rather me tell you that as I felt his hand on me I got wet for him.....you know, just get to the point and then tell you again about it, you know, how wet I was, rather than how he was with me?" I guess I was staring at her like I was in awe or something because she looked at me and asked if I was okay and I just told her "I love you...." and hugged her. She hugged me back and said "is that it? was I right?" and I looked at her and said "yes, my god that would be amazing".
So - while she's off at work today, I feel particularly up. Yes, I know the gloom-and-doomers are going to say "see, she doesn't even want sex with you now" and "see she wants more with Paul" and they're right in terms of sex - but my god, after talking like this so openly and honestly with her now for a few days, it's hard to even think that she has anything other than love for me.
Thanks for clearing that up. I had wondered if she was moving things along to restricting your contact with each other to the few limited opportunities presented in the coupons ( maybe next year?). It does seem things are headed somewhere into that eventual territory, but as far2easy and SquirmingSub have indicated above, that doesn't seem like a negative for your relationship. Onward with the excitement in 2016. Looking forward to hearing about it. Thanks for sharing.
Steve,
Thanks for the great updates and congratulations on the gift Sue gave you for 2016. I was half expecting to see a post that her private gift to you was a box or two of condoms with a not saying "Your gift for 2016 - use them wisely!"
In all seriousness - OUCH! It must have been very painful (but arousing) to have her explicitly state that she prefers sex with Paul. Of course it has been apparent for some time but not stated so definitively. You have been truly replaced by Paul in the sex department. Now she has also made it clear that much of the penetrative sex with you is what I call 'maintenance sex,' the sex a wife gives to keep the husband happy or connected but not necessarily what she wanted to do. The coupons may be a double edged sword where one side is you get to use them but the other side is that she will feel less obligated to give you maintenance sex because you have the choice to use a coupon. Don't be surprised if the promised fun she offered after the skiing weekend turns out to be masturbation only as she embraces Paul only sex.
Don't get me wrong. I think this is great for your desires. I wish the three of you the best in 2016 and beyond. I just hope the time does not come when it erodes the love you and Sue have for each other, but if it does that she can back away if needed.
Thanks for the great updates and congratulations on the gift Sue gave you for 2016. I was half expecting to see a post that her private gift to you was a box or two of condoms with a not saying "Your gift for 2016 - use them wisely!"
In all seriousness - OUCH! It must have been very painful (but arousing) to have her explicitly state that she prefers sex with Paul. Of course it has been apparent for some time but not stated so definitively. You have been truly replaced by Paul in the sex department. Now she has also made it clear that much of the penetrative sex with you is what I call 'maintenance sex,' the sex a wife gives to keep the husband happy or connected but not necessarily what she wanted to do. The coupons may be a double edged sword where one side is you get to use them but the other side is that she will feel less obligated to give you maintenance sex because you have the choice to use a coupon. Don't be surprised if the promised fun she offered after the skiing weekend turns out to be masturbation only as she embraces Paul only sex.
Don't get me wrong. I think this is great for your desires. I wish the three of you the best in 2016 and beyond. I just hope the time does not come when it erodes the love you and Sue have for each other, but if it does that she can back away if needed.
Knk - yes, it stung a bit but I also knew it was happening / had happened and I admit to wanting it. It wasn't that she said the sex with me wasn't good or that she didn't cum with me, that part wasn't really in doubt or question, but it was more her desire that was what I knew was changing.
I know it will sound strange, but as with the past times when I've just come out with something or - like ripping a band-aid off - it felt good to say it to her and to hear her say it back to me. I know it hasn't changed anything between us, well, except for penetrative sex (as Knk put it) but I have to say that so far, the other parts feel perhaps even more important and deep/connecting to me now that this is more out in the open. I know that the time we spend spooning together in bed or hiking together or other things are truly times when we are close and so together. I think for me, in a way, it's like someone who's blind and says their hearing is better than others and it's compensating, I think I've known for a while now that her sexual desires are being satisfied by Paul so it wasn't so much of a surprise to hear it as much as it is to accept it and now, I hope, enjoy it.
It felt good to tell her how I feel about her and how sexual I feel about her even if at the same time, I guess it's me, that want's a separation between us there.
We're heading out for a bite to eat soon as she got home a bit late from work so I don't have time to write more but suffice to say, I'm feeling good about what we've said to each other and that it is more out in the open. I do think that Knk and others are right and she's even said it to me, that she is going to want times with more exclusivity with him and at the same time, more openness between us. I told her that despite the awkwardness, that I did enjoy seeing the side of her that Paul sees when they're alone - the sexy playful side letting him chase her or tickle her or whatever. It felt good to tell her and to not have to feel self-conscious about it.
More later.
I know it will sound strange, but as with the past times when I've just come out with something or - like ripping a band-aid off - it felt good to say it to her and to hear her say it back to me. I know it hasn't changed anything between us, well, except for penetrative sex (as Knk put it) but I have to say that so far, the other parts feel perhaps even more important and deep/connecting to me now that this is more out in the open. I know that the time we spend spooning together in bed or hiking together or other things are truly times when we are close and so together. I think for me, in a way, it's like someone who's blind and says their hearing is better than others and it's compensating, I think I've known for a while now that her sexual desires are being satisfied by Paul so it wasn't so much of a surprise to hear it as much as it is to accept it and now, I hope, enjoy it.
It felt good to tell her how I feel about her and how sexual I feel about her even if at the same time, I guess it's me, that want's a separation between us there.
We're heading out for a bite to eat soon as she got home a bit late from work so I don't have time to write more but suffice to say, I'm feeling good about what we've said to each other and that it is more out in the open. I do think that Knk and others are right and she's even said it to me, that she is going to want times with more exclusivity with him and at the same time, more openness between us. I told her that despite the awkwardness, that I did enjoy seeing the side of her that Paul sees when they're alone - the sexy playful side letting him chase her or tickle her or whatever. It felt good to tell her and to not have to feel self-conscious about it.
More later.
Steve,
Thanks for the great up dates. It sounds like you and Sue are in a "Good Place" right now. I envy the communication you have with her. I've been married longer than you, but my wife and I can't communicate on the level you do with Sue.
I will be interested to see how long it takes for you to use your coupons. I think it will take awhile, I think you are enjoying denying yourself right now.
I want to wish you and your family a "Happy New Year" I'm looking forward to following your progress in the coming year.
Formally "Cuck-Rick"
Thanks for the great up dates. It sounds like you and Sue are in a "Good Place" right now. I envy the communication you have with her. I've been married longer than you, but my wife and I can't communicate on the level you do with Sue.
I will be interested to see how long it takes for you to use your coupons. I think it will take awhile, I think you are enjoying denying yourself right now.
I want to wish you and your family a "Happy New Year" I'm looking forward to following your progress in the coming year.
Formally "Cuck-Rick"
Thanks Rick. I know to some it sounds like I have stepped off a cliff and haven't yet landed but for me, I can't explain how it feels to put her on a pedestal in some way and to feel like I almost worship her sexually now. When we talked she said she was surprised by how I'd changed over the years but also said to me that she sees many other things in our past now that she thinks fit right into what turns me on. Not just the things in the past few years but even before that - she said she remembered things about when we were dating and how I was about her seeing other guys and how I never told her not to. Things like that.
I guess in many ways she's right. I mean I don't know what I want in the future any more than 8+ years ago I thought I wanted something sexually from her - and now, it's changed. I do think a lot of it has to do with Robert and Paul - neither of whom have intruded into our lives any more than necessary. It's been amazing for me to let her go and let her enjoy and to truly see she does love me and wants to enjoy the sex and what goes with it, but wants to share it with me. I do remember early on - and I went back and read some of what I'd written long ago and at first of course I re-read the confused feelings I had - but I also read back to where when it was new that there was a playfulness to it that spread outside the bedroom.
The last thing that I think I should share is that going back to what she said about not worrying about what does and' doesn't turn me on is that when I did finally come out about enjoying the condoms, that she said "so - that's 'your thing'". She said some guys like one thing or another - like some guys like anal sex, while others like getting blow-jobs. She said "you enjoy condoms and what they do in your head.... I told you Paul thinks it's neat that you have a fetish like that.... At least that's how he sees it" and she said to me "it's all okay honey - I told you xxxx and xxxxx (her sister and brother-in-law) always use condoms and he's just fine about it" and she giggled and said "it probably turns him on the same way as you" and she laughed that wouldn't that be funny if he was fantasizing about what turns me on.
Anyway - as i said, each time I seem to open up to her I feel better about myself and about us so I guess it's all good for now.
I guess in many ways she's right. I mean I don't know what I want in the future any more than 8+ years ago I thought I wanted something sexually from her - and now, it's changed. I do think a lot of it has to do with Robert and Paul - neither of whom have intruded into our lives any more than necessary. It's been amazing for me to let her go and let her enjoy and to truly see she does love me and wants to enjoy the sex and what goes with it, but wants to share it with me. I do remember early on - and I went back and read some of what I'd written long ago and at first of course I re-read the confused feelings I had - but I also read back to where when it was new that there was a playfulness to it that spread outside the bedroom.
The last thing that I think I should share is that going back to what she said about not worrying about what does and' doesn't turn me on is that when I did finally come out about enjoying the condoms, that she said "so - that's 'your thing'". She said some guys like one thing or another - like some guys like anal sex, while others like getting blow-jobs. She said "you enjoy condoms and what they do in your head.... I told you Paul thinks it's neat that you have a fetish like that.... At least that's how he sees it" and she said to me "it's all okay honey - I told you xxxx and xxxxx (her sister and brother-in-law) always use condoms and he's just fine about it" and she giggled and said "it probably turns him on the same way as you" and she laughed that wouldn't that be funny if he was fantasizing about what turns me on.
Anyway - as i said, each time I seem to open up to her I feel better about myself and about us so I guess it's all good for now.
Thanks Rick. I know to some it sounds like I have stepped off a cliff and haven't yet landed but for me, I can't explain how it feels to put her on a pedestal in some way and to feel like I almost worship her sexually now. When we talked she said she was surprised by how I'd changed over the years but also said to me that she sees many other things in our past now that she thinks fit right into what turns me on. Not just the things in the past few years but even before that - she said she remembered things about when we were dating and how I was about her seeing other guys and how I never told her not to. Things like that.
I guess in many ways she's right. I mean I don't know what I want in the future any more than 8+ years ago I thought I wanted something sexually from her - and now, it's changed. I do think a lot of it has to do with Robert and Paul - neither of whom have intruded into our lives any more than necessary. It's been amazing for me to let her go and let her enjoy and to truly see she does love me and wants to enjoy the sex and what goes with it, but wants to share it with me. I do remember early on - and I went back and read some of what I'd written long ago and at first of course I re-read the confused feelings I had - but I also read back to where when it was new that there was a playfulness to it that spread outside the bedroom.
The last thing that I think I should share is that going back to what she said about not worrying about what does and' doesn't turn me on is that when I did finally come out about enjoying the condoms, that she said "so - that's 'your thing'". She said some guys like one thing or another - like some guys like anal sex, while others like getting blow-jobs. She said "you enjoy condoms and what they do in your head.... I told you Paul thinks it's neat that you have a fetish like that.... At least that's how he sees it" and she said to me "it's all okay honey - I told you xxxx and xxxxx (her sister and brother-in-law) always use condoms and he's just fine about it" and she giggled and said "it probably turns him on the same way as you" and she laughed that wouldn't that be funny if he was fantasizing about what turns me on.
Anyway - as i said, each time I seem to open up to her I feel better about myself and about us so I guess it's all good for now.
I guess in many ways she's right. I mean I don't know what I want in the future any more than 8+ years ago I thought I wanted something sexually from her - and now, it's changed. I do think a lot of it has to do with Robert and Paul - neither of whom have intruded into our lives any more than necessary. It's been amazing for me to let her go and let her enjoy and to truly see she does love me and wants to enjoy the sex and what goes with it, but wants to share it with me. I do remember early on - and I went back and read some of what I'd written long ago and at first of course I re-read the confused feelings I had - but I also read back to where when it was new that there was a playfulness to it that spread outside the bedroom.
The last thing that I think I should share is that going back to what she said about not worrying about what does and' doesn't turn me on is that when I did finally come out about enjoying the condoms, that she said "so - that's 'your thing'". She said some guys like one thing or another - like some guys like anal sex, while others like getting blow-jobs. She said "you enjoy condoms and what they do in your head.... I told you Paul thinks it's neat that you have a fetish like that.... At least that's how he sees it" and she said to me "it's all okay honey - I told you xxxx and xxxxx (her sister and brother-in-law) always use condoms and he's just fine about it" and she giggled and said "it probably turns him on the same way as you" and she laughed that wouldn't that be funny if he was fantasizing about what turns me on.
Anyway - as i said, each time I seem to open up to her I feel better about myself and about us so I guess it's all good for now.
I think you'll find that the more you become engaged in thoughtful conversation with Sue, the closer you'll become, a different kind of intimacy, which i find very fulfilling, maybe more so than penetration. I believe others can back me up there. To be honest, I was able to get release through handjobs mostly, edging, and self stimulation with my hot wife next to me, which always helped me feel connected as well. If you work that part out and have occasional condom sex, I bet you'll be freaking awesome!
Steve - Good to see your continued updates. I can not speak with everyone although you and Sue have headed in the general direction I posted about some time back. Far and I would both agree that your current dynamic within your relationship will bring about a different type of intimacy with an intimate connection between you and Sue that will continue to deepen. I speak from personal experience and do agree with Far that the heightened level of intimacy could become much more fulfilling as the adjustments in your penetrative/intercourse become much more normalized for the foreseeable future.
You are Sue's loving supportive partner and husband. Paul is Sue's primary sexual partner, friend with benefits and admittedly she could want more in the future as things develop.
Now that your communication is completely open and now that both of you are completely on the same page for 2016 and what could be beyond you should enjoy your wonderful journey.
You are Sue's loving supportive partner and husband. Paul is Sue's primary sexual partner, friend with benefits and admittedly she could want more in the future as things develop.
Now that your communication is completely open and now that both of you are completely on the same page for 2016 and what could be beyond you should enjoy your wonderful journey.
So here comes back the "gloomer and doomer" as you so aptly put it. STB, your life is your own and you are entitled to live it the way you want. I feel frightened when I see everyone here egging you on to go deeper and further and you have indeed "walked off the cliff". Maybe not yet, as somewhere in your conversation Sue has said that at some point of time she is going to want more. I really wonder, what would more be like - may be total exclusivity with Paul. May be as someone suggested, her staying at Paul's place for a week or more? Or better yet, Paul shifting to your home and having the unique right to your bedroom. What is the endpoint STB? Is there an endpoint or is it like an endless spiral? Any checks and balances ? While she apologized for naked chase a few days earlier, what I could get from your narrative is that more is coming your way. I might sound like "Gloomer and doomer" to you STB, but I wish you well STB. I wonder if you could answer a few questions for me:
1) Don't you want Sex with Sue anymore ?
2) Does Sue desires Sex with you ? ?(She has said she prefers Paul to you, but does she desires you anymore? And if she does, is it only twice a year????)
3) Would their so much time together strengthen the emotional bond between them? Does that scares you any more?
4) What happens if Sue comes to you one day and tells you she wants to leave you ?
5) Is the choice of "I want you Sue now" and "we need to stop right now Sue" still available to you? Because during past year, we have not seen the spontaneity in your relationship (wrt to Sex) and while you didn't demand it, she also didn't offer it. You gave a hint (mentioning previous year) but she denied it.
6) Is the denial a game? or is it serious because she doesn't wants to anymore?
7) You can do all the other activities like hiking, outing, talking with a friend as well. So how your intimacy is being different than a casual friend
8) How do you think you will be able to keep the spark of your relationship alive? Or would you be satisfied being like her "Girlfriend" whom she could share things with.
Sorry if my questions sound rude and obnoxious. They are not meant to annoy you STB. They reflect my thinking about your relationship. I would be happy if you could articulate the answer for all of us here. I would understand if you don't want to however, because I know that answers to some of these questions would be difficult.
Regards,
1) Don't you want Sex with Sue anymore ?
2) Does Sue desires Sex with you ? ?(She has said she prefers Paul to you, but does she desires you anymore? And if she does, is it only twice a year????)
3) Would their so much time together strengthen the emotional bond between them? Does that scares you any more?
4) What happens if Sue comes to you one day and tells you she wants to leave you ?
5) Is the choice of "I want you Sue now" and "we need to stop right now Sue" still available to you? Because during past year, we have not seen the spontaneity in your relationship (wrt to Sex) and while you didn't demand it, she also didn't offer it. You gave a hint (mentioning previous year) but she denied it.
6) Is the denial a game? or is it serious because she doesn't wants to anymore?
7) You can do all the other activities like hiking, outing, talking with a friend as well. So how your intimacy is being different than a casual friend
8) How do you think you will be able to keep the spark of your relationship alive? Or would you be satisfied being like her "Girlfriend" whom she could share things with.
Sorry if my questions sound rude and obnoxious. They are not meant to annoy you STB. They reflect my thinking about your relationship. I would be happy if you could articulate the answer for all of us here. I would understand if you don't want to however, because I know that answers to some of these questions would be difficult.
Regards,
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Everyone – we all should remember that every relationship is different, very few relationships are the same and those that appear to be similar in public tend to not be in private. Over the years there has been more and more people coming out of the shadows, openly exploring and or openly sharing the lifestyles in which they may have been living for years in the shadows. Some would say that society has a whole is becoming more understandings while others have found that society is still full of judgment of those lifestyle choices that they do not understand.
I myself find it interesting that so many people are OK with Swingers, yet not OK with the whole Hotwife/Cuckold approach, others are very much OK with same sex activities while those same people pass judgment on the bi-sexual group of people, others support variation of POLY while others do not. Some people find that a spouse have sex with others has OK yet do not support that fact that some that do have sex with others due at times develop emotional bond on some level with those that they have sex with over a period of time. Some women and men alike need to have that emotional bond even if on a limited scale for the sexual to be at that enhanced level for greater enjoyment. We all should realized that at some point when our partners, our spouses take on a regular play-mate or develop a friend with benefits relationship for sexual activities that there will be an emotional bond at some point on some level even if it is as simple as very hot friendship with or without casual sexual contact. Many of us come to forums such as this one and other forums with varied topics to share in similar and opposing viewpoints. Ideally we all will learn something here and hopefully we also will be able to bring a viewpoint that also may be helpful to someone.
With that said, so many people do not share their inner most desires and feelings for fear of being judged by their partner, their spouse, their friends and in some cases complete strangers. We all should remember that Steve does not have to post here and I for one very much appreciate all that he has shared over the years including all the intimate details he has shared with all of us with regard to his transition into his much more beta role with Sue as he and Sue have taken this journey together. Yes I said together, Steve and Sue both seem to truly have had some level of mutual enjoyment throughout the journey in which they have included Paul within. I am sure that some will disagree with this statement although it does seem clear to me that while Steve may not have been present or shared in all of the activities that he has clearly received enjoyment from this journey. Yes that path has been rough to a degree, yes the path has not quite been what Steve may have pictured for himself when it first began although it does appear that he and Sue are both happen with their mutually agreed upon decision to continue with the current journey. It would also seem that there communication is much better today than it has been in the past and they also appear to be much more open with each others in every aspect of their lives.
For those of you that need labels; it really does seem that Steve has gone from being the husband (alpha) of a hotwife to being a cuckold (beta) husband of a hotwife to what seems could develop into what I would call a poly with a cuckold twist. Yes someone is going to ask me what I mean by “poly with a cuckold twist”, so here it goes. While Steve and Sue have continued to remain in a strong marriage with Steve’s encouragement and support for Sue to enjoy herself with others over the years, Sue has since been seeing Paul exclusively for just over a year at this point, Paul has since become Sue’s primary sexual partner, yes Sue does continue to remain intimate with Steve in all other areas and yes Sue will have sex with Steve on her terms (this they have agreed to). It has been said that Sue at some point may want more at some point in the future, this is something that none of us can truly know what it means beyond speculation although it could mean a future omission of a deeper connection between Sue and Paul. I would think that it is truly possible that Sue and Paul could have an exclusive relationship were he continues to be dedicated to Sue while Sue can continue to be committed and dedicated to her husband Steve within the lifestyle that the two of them have chosen. In short, it is very possible that Sue can love both of her men, equally yet different on many levels. While I do not believe that they are out that level, I do think that it is realistically possible based on the direction they have chosen take for the foreseeable future.
Just my view point – a very similar what I have posted on this thread in the past.
I myself find it interesting that so many people are OK with Swingers, yet not OK with the whole Hotwife/Cuckold approach, others are very much OK with same sex activities while those same people pass judgment on the bi-sexual group of people, others support variation of POLY while others do not. Some people find that a spouse have sex with others has OK yet do not support that fact that some that do have sex with others due at times develop emotional bond on some level with those that they have sex with over a period of time. Some women and men alike need to have that emotional bond even if on a limited scale for the sexual to be at that enhanced level for greater enjoyment. We all should realized that at some point when our partners, our spouses take on a regular play-mate or develop a friend with benefits relationship for sexual activities that there will be an emotional bond at some point on some level even if it is as simple as very hot friendship with or without casual sexual contact. Many of us come to forums such as this one and other forums with varied topics to share in similar and opposing viewpoints. Ideally we all will learn something here and hopefully we also will be able to bring a viewpoint that also may be helpful to someone.
With that said, so many people do not share their inner most desires and feelings for fear of being judged by their partner, their spouse, their friends and in some cases complete strangers. We all should remember that Steve does not have to post here and I for one very much appreciate all that he has shared over the years including all the intimate details he has shared with all of us with regard to his transition into his much more beta role with Sue as he and Sue have taken this journey together. Yes I said together, Steve and Sue both seem to truly have had some level of mutual enjoyment throughout the journey in which they have included Paul within. I am sure that some will disagree with this statement although it does seem clear to me that while Steve may not have been present or shared in all of the activities that he has clearly received enjoyment from this journey. Yes that path has been rough to a degree, yes the path has not quite been what Steve may have pictured for himself when it first began although it does appear that he and Sue are both happen with their mutually agreed upon decision to continue with the current journey. It would also seem that there communication is much better today than it has been in the past and they also appear to be much more open with each others in every aspect of their lives.
For those of you that need labels; it really does seem that Steve has gone from being the husband (alpha) of a hotwife to being a cuckold (beta) husband of a hotwife to what seems could develop into what I would call a poly with a cuckold twist. Yes someone is going to ask me what I mean by “poly with a cuckold twist”, so here it goes. While Steve and Sue have continued to remain in a strong marriage with Steve’s encouragement and support for Sue to enjoy herself with others over the years, Sue has since been seeing Paul exclusively for just over a year at this point, Paul has since become Sue’s primary sexual partner, yes Sue does continue to remain intimate with Steve in all other areas and yes Sue will have sex with Steve on her terms (this they have agreed to). It has been said that Sue at some point may want more at some point in the future, this is something that none of us can truly know what it means beyond speculation although it could mean a future omission of a deeper connection between Sue and Paul. I would think that it is truly possible that Sue and Paul could have an exclusive relationship were he continues to be dedicated to Sue while Sue can continue to be committed and dedicated to her husband Steve within the lifestyle that the two of them have chosen. In short, it is very possible that Sue can love both of her men, equally yet different on many levels. While I do not believe that they are out that level, I do think that it is realistically possible based on the direction they have chosen take for the foreseeable future.
Just my view point – a very similar what I have posted on this thread in the past.
Agreed Squirming, their relationship is what they want from it, who is to question it. There are many aspects to physical stimulation, some men can't have sex at all but does that make the wife not love them? I think the more they talk in the open the more comfortable it will be for them to move away from penetrative sex, as often, since it is nice to reconnect in that intimate way, but I don't think Sue wants to entirely remove Stb from all sexual contact. All of the other things from handjobs/blowjobs to oral on her or maybe him seem to still be their "thing". She just prefers to have her pussy filled by Paul. I think she is pretty much there based on what Stb has written but she is looking for Stb to relax and go with it.
SquirmingSub said:
Sorry if I sounded judgemental. I am not at all judging STB or anyone. If I draw certain conclusions based on what STB has so graciously shared on this public forum that is not being judgemental. I just want to know the motivation (if it is possible to tell) that can logically justify what they are doing
SquirmingSub said:
No disagreements here
SquirmingSub said:
The communication between the two has always been excellent. Excellent communication however does not means an equal relationship. To me it seems Sue is communicating to STB what she wants, while at times overruling STB's reservations. Whenever STB expresses any, she says she loves him and that he has the option of putting this to an end, knowing very well that he wouldn't do it. And that before escalating they will discuss it further. Sorry, but my opinion (put it to trash if you want) is that Sue is guiding the discussions and is getting what she wants endorsed.
SquirmingSub said:
Poly with a cuckold twist or Cuckold with sometimes (very few times in fact) poly twist.
SquirmingSub said:
I have no doubts that they love each other. But I suspect it's eroding fast. Sue will have Sex with Steve on her terms??? What about surrendering to love for Steve once in a year atleast ????? Even if Steve doesn't wants it? Would Steve refuse bare sex with Sue had she offered him any? I hope that makes my point clearer.
SquirmingSub said:
Well this is what I suppose IU am afraid of and STB should be afraid of as well.
Again the point here is not to pick holes in what you said Squirmy, but to raise doubts on the line of chosen logic. It doesn't sounds reasonable to me and that's why a lot of question. I would be obliged if STB takes time to read my earlier post and answer some of my doubts.
Cheers!
Raks,
I'll answer your questions and then, if time permits, will expand on things more.
1) Do I want sex with Sue any more? Or course, my god, if anything I want her even more - it's not that I don't want her, quite the opposite, everything she does makes me want her. The conflict isn't whether I want sex with her or not, it's how often and what occurs in between that affects me. Maybe it's as simple as I want her but only after she's been satiated by Paul - but that's not true either as we have wonderful sex without him going first/before.
2) Does she desire sex with me? I would answer of course to this one too, but I would clarify that by saying she wants it with me when SHE wants it with me. You accurately point out that she's now said she prefers sex with him in some ways - but again, my feeling and understanding is that desire originated with my wishes and she still says that my happiness is still behind all of what she is doing. Yes, this may be infrequent in comparison, however, again, I know that if I were to want to relinquish my beta desires and were to want to resume my alpha role with her, I remain totally confident that her "preference" would shift back.
3) Does their time together increase their bond? Yes, obviously it does, bond, friendship, whatever you want to call it. Of course it does, but their time together isn't increasing very much. I know that Peak has pointed out that in reality it is a lot of our free-time percentage-wise but at the same time, it isn't since days off and holidays and other times are still spent with me and our family. Does it worry me? I think the time for that concern has now long passed by, no it doesn't worry me in terms of it becoming a problem or issue, it's actually a bit of a turn-on that he is so comfortable with her and vice-versa.
4) What if she comes to me and says she wants to leave me? Now how would this happen exactly? Is she going to come home suddenly, tonight, or next week or next month and without warning say that? If yes, then everything up to now has been a lie and while that would hurt tremendously, it just doesn't seem likely to be something I would even think about. If it's something that happens over time, then that would be an equally bad thing but that would imply again that there hasn't been openness and honesty somewhere - again, not what I feel right now from either of them so how do I try to frame that as a legit concern?
5) Are the earlier options of "I want you now" and "We need to stop this now" still available to me? I say emphatically yes to the first. I still know in my heart that if under some kind of circumstances I went to Sue and said that I need to feel and cum in you now - and it was a true feeling, I know that she would never say no. Perhaps she would try to coax me out of it if it were less of an urgent desire for me - in my head I can see her asking me "do you really want / need me bare?" as I climbed up on top of her in that situation. However, I will say that the "brake card" seems to be off the table now. I do feel that if either of us felt that there was some sort of real reason to stop something - if she said she began to feel more for him than she/we are comfortable with, or if she got (or I) got some bad vibes from Paul, then I do think we would talk about it and likely stop, etc., but if it's not an urgent situation like that, then, no - I'd have to say that I do feel I can no longer just on a whim or desire say I want her to stop. That's a bit of a big thing to admit to but I do feel it's the truth.
6) Is denial a game? No, I don't think so. I am willing to accept and admit that she genuinely enjoys how things have worked out. Whether her own desires have morphed to fit better with where I"m comfortable - that I don't know - but once she truly began enjoying the dynamics of my denial - I think it's no longer a game so-to-speak. Is it required, no. But as this thread is titled, it does seem to have become a bit of a norm. Which lends credence to all of the above in that I find sexual arousal and even some sense of satisfaction in being denied or knowing I am being denied.
7) How does what we do now differ from just being friends? We share a life together - that's how it's different. She shares with me what she does with Paul in her own way knowing I am turned on by it. We share a different but still significant sexual relationship that "just friends" don't - but we share our life and our family and our soul together - that's what being married is and how it differs from just friends. You feel connected and as one even if your genitals don't connect.
8) HOw to keep the spark alive? I find this a weird question. We are in our mid-50s, married for almost 30 years - just the fact that we still even play around sexually at all puts us in such a unique place among our peers. that's what all this is about - finding the spark that sustains our excitement with and about each other. She has a huge "wonder" and amazement at me and how she is finding she can stimulate and arouse me and I am loving that she is still very much a desireous sexual being who wants not just me but others. Had we not pursued this direction - the alternative was a gradual slow-down of sex for both of us with the associated resentments over time, or one or both of us having a hurtful affair to get that spark going again. The fact that I love her fucking Paul is a huge spark that has ignited a lot of our relationship in ways that others seem envious of when they see us together. Do I want to become a girlfriend of hers as a confidante, that'd be hot if she could feel that way - it may very well be what she is trying to achieve - but not as the only point of relation between us.
I hope that help Raks.
More later.
Steve
I'll answer your questions and then, if time permits, will expand on things more.
1) Do I want sex with Sue any more? Or course, my god, if anything I want her even more - it's not that I don't want her, quite the opposite, everything she does makes me want her. The conflict isn't whether I want sex with her or not, it's how often and what occurs in between that affects me. Maybe it's as simple as I want her but only after she's been satiated by Paul - but that's not true either as we have wonderful sex without him going first/before.
2) Does she desire sex with me? I would answer of course to this one too, but I would clarify that by saying she wants it with me when SHE wants it with me. You accurately point out that she's now said she prefers sex with him in some ways - but again, my feeling and understanding is that desire originated with my wishes and she still says that my happiness is still behind all of what she is doing. Yes, this may be infrequent in comparison, however, again, I know that if I were to want to relinquish my beta desires and were to want to resume my alpha role with her, I remain totally confident that her "preference" would shift back.
3) Does their time together increase their bond? Yes, obviously it does, bond, friendship, whatever you want to call it. Of course it does, but their time together isn't increasing very much. I know that Peak has pointed out that in reality it is a lot of our free-time percentage-wise but at the same time, it isn't since days off and holidays and other times are still spent with me and our family. Does it worry me? I think the time for that concern has now long passed by, no it doesn't worry me in terms of it becoming a problem or issue, it's actually a bit of a turn-on that he is so comfortable with her and vice-versa.
4) What if she comes to me and says she wants to leave me? Now how would this happen exactly? Is she going to come home suddenly, tonight, or next week or next month and without warning say that? If yes, then everything up to now has been a lie and while that would hurt tremendously, it just doesn't seem likely to be something I would even think about. If it's something that happens over time, then that would be an equally bad thing but that would imply again that there hasn't been openness and honesty somewhere - again, not what I feel right now from either of them so how do I try to frame that as a legit concern?
5) Are the earlier options of "I want you now" and "We need to stop this now" still available to me? I say emphatically yes to the first. I still know in my heart that if under some kind of circumstances I went to Sue and said that I need to feel and cum in you now - and it was a true feeling, I know that she would never say no. Perhaps she would try to coax me out of it if it were less of an urgent desire for me - in my head I can see her asking me "do you really want / need me bare?" as I climbed up on top of her in that situation. However, I will say that the "brake card" seems to be off the table now. I do feel that if either of us felt that there was some sort of real reason to stop something - if she said she began to feel more for him than she/we are comfortable with, or if she got (or I) got some bad vibes from Paul, then I do think we would talk about it and likely stop, etc., but if it's not an urgent situation like that, then, no - I'd have to say that I do feel I can no longer just on a whim or desire say I want her to stop. That's a bit of a big thing to admit to but I do feel it's the truth.
6) Is denial a game? No, I don't think so. I am willing to accept and admit that she genuinely enjoys how things have worked out. Whether her own desires have morphed to fit better with where I"m comfortable - that I don't know - but once she truly began enjoying the dynamics of my denial - I think it's no longer a game so-to-speak. Is it required, no. But as this thread is titled, it does seem to have become a bit of a norm. Which lends credence to all of the above in that I find sexual arousal and even some sense of satisfaction in being denied or knowing I am being denied.
7) How does what we do now differ from just being friends? We share a life together - that's how it's different. She shares with me what she does with Paul in her own way knowing I am turned on by it. We share a different but still significant sexual relationship that "just friends" don't - but we share our life and our family and our soul together - that's what being married is and how it differs from just friends. You feel connected and as one even if your genitals don't connect.
8) HOw to keep the spark alive? I find this a weird question. We are in our mid-50s, married for almost 30 years - just the fact that we still even play around sexually at all puts us in such a unique place among our peers. that's what all this is about - finding the spark that sustains our excitement with and about each other. She has a huge "wonder" and amazement at me and how she is finding she can stimulate and arouse me and I am loving that she is still very much a desireous sexual being who wants not just me but others. Had we not pursued this direction - the alternative was a gradual slow-down of sex for both of us with the associated resentments over time, or one or both of us having a hurtful affair to get that spark going again. The fact that I love her fucking Paul is a huge spark that has ignited a lot of our relationship in ways that others seem envious of when they see us together. Do I want to become a girlfriend of hers as a confidante, that'd be hot if she could feel that way - it may very well be what she is trying to achieve - but not as the only point of relation between us.
I hope that help Raks.
More later.
Steve
- Status
