Denial discussion
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Thanks, Cscguy, for agreeing and supporting my words. Those of us who have been following Steve's story, do get a bit protective, and also sometimes 'harsh on him ourselves, but we don't encourage him to 'go off the deep end.' Do we Steve?
Sorry Pnisnvnh, for being so hard on you. I appreciate your response.
I don't think it's likely, 'Pnisnvnh' that you will say anything to "push" Steve past "the hump" any quicker than Steve has, or will do on his own.
It's one thing to tell Sue, "I want to be your 'Beta male,' -and- "I don't want to be your, 'main man' for sex" and yet another, (which Pnisnvnh has NOT suggested) to want Sue to literally 'fall in love with another man.' ..... "Her next lover could sway her more than Robert did. But as I've said, its something I do want to experience with her, to let her want/feel it for another guy. And yes, in a way, I will even admit that I would still like to see her, 'fall for another guy' the way she thought she wanted to with Robert." [from post #254]
Cheers, Harry
Sorry Pnisnvnh, for being so hard on you. I appreciate your response.
I don't think it's likely, 'Pnisnvnh' that you will say anything to "push" Steve past "the hump" any quicker than Steve has, or will do on his own.
It's one thing to tell Sue, "I want to be your 'Beta male,' -and- "I don't want to be your, 'main man' for sex" and yet another, (which Pnisnvnh has NOT suggested) to want Sue to literally 'fall in love with another man.' ..... "Her next lover could sway her more than Robert did. But as I've said, its something I do want to experience with her, to let her want/feel it for another guy. And yes, in a way, I will even admit that I would still like to see her, 'fall for another guy' the way she thought she wanted to with Robert." [from post #254]
Cheers, Harry
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Harry2614 said:
Sorry I made a misquote. So from post #220 here's the correction:
I have used the term 'cuckold' before with her, but she, I think, views that in a more derogatory sense. Instead of 'alpha' and 'beta,' I've told her that, I don't want to be her main-guy sexually, and I have told her that I liked knowing she enjoyed sharing those pleasures with another guy - so she's fairly clear on things now.
Harry
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STB,
It looks like adding Pnis to the pot has left the rest of your supporters just the opposite of James Bond's martinis. Stirred but not shaken! Overall I think anything that encourages debate must be good. I wonder how his possible vision of your future has left you thinking Steve? Did it affect your discussions last night?
It looks like adding Pnis to the pot has left the rest of your supporters just the opposite of James Bond's martinis. Stirred but not shaken! Overall I think anything that encourages debate must be good. I wonder how his possible vision of your future has left you thinking Steve? Did it affect your discussions last night?
Whew - where to start....
Rather than all the details (unless someone wants to hear them), given all that Pnis and others have posted and what I now see I should maybe reply to, I'll keep it on the shorter side for now.
The last that I'd read before we got started with our Wednesday routine was the post from Pnis that ended with his story of how he became the "Hand Husband". I found it all arousing but I didn't at the time, and now after last night, am convinced that isn't what either of us want right now. I added the "right now" at the end of that sentence because that is applicable - again in our mid/post-fun talk last night we both also agreed that things can change. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
I knew that I wanted to maybe talk about the last stuff in this thread last night - Pnis's contributions and other thoughts that had been posted by then. But when we did get up to the bedroom, Sue was quite playful and instead of being focused on where my head was, she was all horny about next week. She teased me that I must be getting hornier for her and rather than try to remember everything about the conversation - I'll put it here that SHE is definitely turned on by this redefinition of our sexual relationship - and she made it quite clear that she wants to celebrate and most definitely enjoy when I will cum in her again. She cooed and teased me about how much she missed it from me and made it clear that she wants it to be something special we share when we do it. I casually mentioned that "...oh, I thought it might not be as important to you now..." or something like that - and she responded very strongly to that. She said that since our decision back in August - that she's come to sort of understand the significance of sharing that moment with me and - she said it in other words but basically said that now that she shares that with other guys (she said guys - plural) that she feels even more strongly about making when we do it to be something special for us - and again she mentioned how she liked the redefinition of our marriage to not, essentially, be centered around my sexually satisfying her. She said that while she may do and feel things with other guys, that she still wants - and she also used the word "needs" - to feel that with me.
Now, that wasn't one whole discussion - but it puts together the pieces that spanned before/after our fun and some of was repeated several times over the course of the night.
I'm not sure this is working how I'm writing this but it seemed easier, and perhaps more important to me to post that first part.
What we really talked about during the earlier part of the evening though was next week. She was particularly animated when she talked about Tony and asked me quite openly whether I was both okay and whether I was excited about her fucking Tony next week. I told her that I was excited for her but wasn't totally sure about how I felt about it being her co-worker. We were kind of into our fun and I was stroking away as she told me how horny she was getting "to feel it again" (and I knew she was referring to cumming in her) and she told me that she was excited about it. She said that she found herself getting turned on thinking of having sex with him "after all this time" and at one point she even said that she would get aroused thinking about being naked or, as she put it, "undressed" with him. She told me how she hoped he'd be good and that doing spontaneously as she was hoping, she thought it would "make it hotter" and harder for him to resist - she giggled at that and said "not that he would" and she told me more about how friendly he's been over the years. Maybe she played it up a bit but from how she presented it, he's had the hots for her for a long time but she'd never felt comfortable about it before. She said that the past year or so had made her realize that she wanted to give into him. I asked her if it was going to be a whole big thing and she giggled and said no, that it could never be, that like us, he has a life and a family and that she didn't think he would want anything more than a "quick turn in the back seat!".
It was how she said that she wanted it to happen next week that got me horny and ultimately got me off the first time. She told me how next Friday that a lot of people are going out after work. I asked if Robert would be there and she said she thought he would be and that his new lady-friend might also be there.
She then said something that surprised me - she said she told Robert that she'd thought a quickie with Tony! I was surprised to say the least but she said that she felt she could talk to Robert about most anything and that he knew of Tony and that she wanted his opinion. She said he said the same things as I did about whether she'll be comfortable with Tony afterwards - and that after she explained how she felt and again said to me that she even thought it might be fun to work with him afterwards - that Robert had said that he too couldn't see a reason not to. She told me that she wanted to have a few drinks and then, at some point, to pull Tony out onto the dance floor where she said "he's sure to say something suggestive". She giggled and said that she planned on answering him with an "okay, lets sneak out if we can...." and it was then that I realized she was masturbating herself as we talked and as I stroked myself.
It was how she described what she wanted to do with him in her SUV. She said she wanted to surprise him by being aggressive and hoped she could suck his cock. She rarely says she wants to do that so it surprised me. She said she wanted to get him really horny for her and she said "before he cums though I want to fuck him". She said it really sexily and it turned me on to hear her say it so clearly and openly. She told me she wanted to wear a dress "so I can just pull it up" and she teased me about what panties she would wear - if she'd wear any!!! Damn my cock was rock hard and I noticed her own voice was wavering - I lifted my head up and I could now clearly see she'd slid her own panties off and now had her legs spread as she masturbated herself. She started to say how horny she was and how "it's been almost a month since I've felt it in me" and then she said in this half-moan half-sexy voice "I want him to cum in me" - I was so close to exploding myself from hearing her tell me so openly. It was when she moaned that "he'll have me before you get to again" that set me off!!! As soon as I moaned and started to cum I heard Sue let out this gutteral moan and saw her arch her back and slam her fingers in and out of her pussy as she let herself finally cum - as I pulled out spurt after spurt of cum I could feel her shaking on the bed next to me and I could hear her fingers squishing in and out of her pussy until, finally, she too calmed down.
Rather than all the details (unless someone wants to hear them), given all that Pnis and others have posted and what I now see I should maybe reply to, I'll keep it on the shorter side for now.
The last that I'd read before we got started with our Wednesday routine was the post from Pnis that ended with his story of how he became the "Hand Husband". I found it all arousing but I didn't at the time, and now after last night, am convinced that isn't what either of us want right now. I added the "right now" at the end of that sentence because that is applicable - again in our mid/post-fun talk last night we both also agreed that things can change. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
I knew that I wanted to maybe talk about the last stuff in this thread last night - Pnis's contributions and other thoughts that had been posted by then. But when we did get up to the bedroom, Sue was quite playful and instead of being focused on where my head was, she was all horny about next week. She teased me that I must be getting hornier for her and rather than try to remember everything about the conversation - I'll put it here that SHE is definitely turned on by this redefinition of our sexual relationship - and she made it quite clear that she wants to celebrate and most definitely enjoy when I will cum in her again. She cooed and teased me about how much she missed it from me and made it clear that she wants it to be something special we share when we do it. I casually mentioned that "...oh, I thought it might not be as important to you now..." or something like that - and she responded very strongly to that. She said that since our decision back in August - that she's come to sort of understand the significance of sharing that moment with me and - she said it in other words but basically said that now that she shares that with other guys (she said guys - plural) that she feels even more strongly about making when we do it to be something special for us - and again she mentioned how she liked the redefinition of our marriage to not, essentially, be centered around my sexually satisfying her. She said that while she may do and feel things with other guys, that she still wants - and she also used the word "needs" - to feel that with me.
Now, that wasn't one whole discussion - but it puts together the pieces that spanned before/after our fun and some of was repeated several times over the course of the night.
I'm not sure this is working how I'm writing this but it seemed easier, and perhaps more important to me to post that first part.
What we really talked about during the earlier part of the evening though was next week. She was particularly animated when she talked about Tony and asked me quite openly whether I was both okay and whether I was excited about her fucking Tony next week. I told her that I was excited for her but wasn't totally sure about how I felt about it being her co-worker. We were kind of into our fun and I was stroking away as she told me how horny she was getting "to feel it again" (and I knew she was referring to cumming in her) and she told me that she was excited about it. She said that she found herself getting turned on thinking of having sex with him "after all this time" and at one point she even said that she would get aroused thinking about being naked or, as she put it, "undressed" with him. She told me how she hoped he'd be good and that doing spontaneously as she was hoping, she thought it would "make it hotter" and harder for him to resist - she giggled at that and said "not that he would" and she told me more about how friendly he's been over the years. Maybe she played it up a bit but from how she presented it, he's had the hots for her for a long time but she'd never felt comfortable about it before. She said that the past year or so had made her realize that she wanted to give into him. I asked her if it was going to be a whole big thing and she giggled and said no, that it could never be, that like us, he has a life and a family and that she didn't think he would want anything more than a "quick turn in the back seat!".
It was how she said that she wanted it to happen next week that got me horny and ultimately got me off the first time. She told me how next Friday that a lot of people are going out after work. I asked if Robert would be there and she said she thought he would be and that his new lady-friend might also be there.
She then said something that surprised me - she said she told Robert that she'd thought a quickie with Tony! I was surprised to say the least but she said that she felt she could talk to Robert about most anything and that he knew of Tony and that she wanted his opinion. She said he said the same things as I did about whether she'll be comfortable with Tony afterwards - and that after she explained how she felt and again said to me that she even thought it might be fun to work with him afterwards - that Robert had said that he too couldn't see a reason not to. She told me that she wanted to have a few drinks and then, at some point, to pull Tony out onto the dance floor where she said "he's sure to say something suggestive". She giggled and said that she planned on answering him with an "okay, lets sneak out if we can...." and it was then that I realized she was masturbating herself as we talked and as I stroked myself.
It was how she described what she wanted to do with him in her SUV. She said she wanted to surprise him by being aggressive and hoped she could suck his cock. She rarely says she wants to do that so it surprised me. She said she wanted to get him really horny for her and she said "before he cums though I want to fuck him". She said it really sexily and it turned me on to hear her say it so clearly and openly. She told me she wanted to wear a dress "so I can just pull it up" and she teased me about what panties she would wear - if she'd wear any!!! Damn my cock was rock hard and I noticed her own voice was wavering - I lifted my head up and I could now clearly see she'd slid her own panties off and now had her legs spread as she masturbated herself. She started to say how horny she was and how "it's been almost a month since I've felt it in me" and then she said in this half-moan half-sexy voice "I want him to cum in me" - I was so close to exploding myself from hearing her tell me so openly. It was when she moaned that "he'll have me before you get to again" that set me off!!! As soon as I moaned and started to cum I heard Sue let out this gutteral moan and saw her arch her back and slam her fingers in and out of her pussy as she let herself finally cum - as I pulled out spurt after spurt of cum I could feel her shaking on the bed next to me and I could hear her fingers squishing in and out of her pussy until, finally, she too calmed down.
She moaned and turned to me seeming to be a little embarassed herself at how she'd let go - but seeing my cum all over my stomach and chest brought a quick smile to her face and she giggled that "looks like it turns you on too". I was still in my post-orgasm daydream but heard her enough to nod and agree with a "uh huh" reply. And sure enough a moment or two later I felt her fingers gently squeeze my softened cock and draw away the last drops of cum she drew out - I looked down at her to see her playing with my cum and she moaned again how it turned her on that I didn't cum in her.
We'd already said some of what I'd posted at the start of the last post - and this was when a bit more came out. I asked her if she'd ever thought of denying me more than we already are. She was curious and looked at me and said she didn't know what I meant - and so I sort of came out with it - I asked her if she ever thought about me either not going bare with her again or whether she wanted to deny me even more and not have sex with me.
It led to a bit of a discussion that was actually quite open. I couldn't look her in the face as I talked and I think she understood that it was hard enough for me to bare my soul that she accepted me talking to the ceiling. Because I wasn't looking at her I couldn't see her face when I said that sometimes I fantasize about her denying me further. She asked if it excited me to think about and I said yes. I can't really recall everything we said as it was quite an intense few moments but I know that I told her that it did turn me on that she didn't have the last part of her orgasm with me and that it really turned me on that she would only feel that with Robert and Tony (she later said she was touched that I mentioned Tony) until Christmas-time with me. She said that's what she was trying to say earlier and again tried to explain it - that it turned her on that this had become something we would only share on truly special occasions and she admitted again that not feeling it with me didn't make her love me or want me less, but that it did make her want to be with another guy more.
We talked and she told me that thinking of her own pussy as something that only her lover truly got to enjoy and feel made her feel incredibly sexual and incredibly turned on. She said that when she'd think that way - that it heightened everything she felt. And that was when she turned to me and said that she knew it turned me on too and that was still a big part of what drove her own desire "knowing both of my guys want it to be this way". So I asked her again whether she'd ever thought about it going further. She hesitated for a moment and then said "well....." and she proceeded to say that she too fantasized about it and thought in some ways it was arousing to know that she might only share her sexuality with other men - but she then immediately added what I'd said in the earlier post, that it wasn't something she'd want to do for real - and she likened it to the fun we had the other day in the food-store and with her teasing me later on - that it's just playing it up and not something she'd want for real. I thought she'd let it go then until she said something to the effect that if she did find another guy like Don - "and you know, he wanted more and more" that she said it might be something she would think of differently. Before I could respond she turned to look at me and said "what we're doing now is fun - lots of fun - right?" and I had to agree. She looked at me and said "lets just enjoy this for now and not overthink the future" - she smiled and said "after all, anything can happen" to which she added "but whatever it is baby - it's something we'll decide together" and she added "it needs to be good for both of us".
I need to end the post here despite there probably being a lot more I could write about - my head is still spinning a bit and I'm not sure that I've either captured/represented everything correctly as I've kind of been trying to do 2 things at once here - write here and do real-work. I'm sure I'll log back in later and re-read what I penned and will have to either explain or clarify a lot of things.
We'd already said some of what I'd posted at the start of the last post - and this was when a bit more came out. I asked her if she'd ever thought of denying me more than we already are. She was curious and looked at me and said she didn't know what I meant - and so I sort of came out with it - I asked her if she ever thought about me either not going bare with her again or whether she wanted to deny me even more and not have sex with me.
It led to a bit of a discussion that was actually quite open. I couldn't look her in the face as I talked and I think she understood that it was hard enough for me to bare my soul that she accepted me talking to the ceiling. Because I wasn't looking at her I couldn't see her face when I said that sometimes I fantasize about her denying me further. She asked if it excited me to think about and I said yes. I can't really recall everything we said as it was quite an intense few moments but I know that I told her that it did turn me on that she didn't have the last part of her orgasm with me and that it really turned me on that she would only feel that with Robert and Tony (she later said she was touched that I mentioned Tony) until Christmas-time with me. She said that's what she was trying to say earlier and again tried to explain it - that it turned her on that this had become something we would only share on truly special occasions and she admitted again that not feeling it with me didn't make her love me or want me less, but that it did make her want to be with another guy more.
We talked and she told me that thinking of her own pussy as something that only her lover truly got to enjoy and feel made her feel incredibly sexual and incredibly turned on. She said that when she'd think that way - that it heightened everything she felt. And that was when she turned to me and said that she knew it turned me on too and that was still a big part of what drove her own desire "knowing both of my guys want it to be this way". So I asked her again whether she'd ever thought about it going further. She hesitated for a moment and then said "well....." and she proceeded to say that she too fantasized about it and thought in some ways it was arousing to know that she might only share her sexuality with other men - but she then immediately added what I'd said in the earlier post, that it wasn't something she'd want to do for real - and she likened it to the fun we had the other day in the food-store and with her teasing me later on - that it's just playing it up and not something she'd want for real. I thought she'd let it go then until she said something to the effect that if she did find another guy like Don - "and you know, he wanted more and more" that she said it might be something she would think of differently. Before I could respond she turned to look at me and said "what we're doing now is fun - lots of fun - right?" and I had to agree. She looked at me and said "lets just enjoy this for now and not overthink the future" - she smiled and said "after all, anything can happen" to which she added "but whatever it is baby - it's something we'll decide together" and she added "it needs to be good for both of us".
I need to end the post here despite there probably being a lot more I could write about - my head is still spinning a bit and I'm not sure that I've either captured/represented everything correctly as I've kind of been trying to do 2 things at once here - write here and do real-work. I'm sure I'll log back in later and re-read what I penned and will have to either explain or clarify a lot of things.
STB,
I have to say that your last post shocked me. I know that you have become increasingly excited by the denial you have yourself encouraged in Sue but finally, to want to deny her what she has clearly stated she wants, a true reconnection, it just doesn't somehow ring true with the man who posted so much over the last five years. People change and evolve but rarely change their core values much. I can only believe that the extreme excitement of the moment overwhelmed your mind. Let's see what Santa really brings over the next few weeks. I'd be surprised if Sue is denied and more surprised if you don't think it's the best feeling ever.
I have to say that your last post shocked me. I know that you have become increasingly excited by the denial you have yourself encouraged in Sue but finally, to want to deny her what she has clearly stated she wants, a true reconnection, it just doesn't somehow ring true with the man who posted so much over the last five years. People change and evolve but rarely change their core values much. I can only believe that the extreme excitement of the moment overwhelmed your mind. Let's see what Santa really brings over the next few weeks. I'd be surprised if Sue is denied and more surprised if you don't think it's the best feeling ever.
Peak - I'm not sure - I am pressed for time right now but I don't think I expressed myself clearly but I have no intention of denying myself or ourselves - unless something dramatically changes in the next 2 1/2 weeks, I fully plan on enjoying our time together between Christmas and New Years.
I need to run off right now but will be back later to re-read what I posted and see where I mis-expressed myself. Clearly I didn't word something the right way.
TTFN
I need to run off right now but will be back later to re-read what I posted and see where I mis-expressed myself. Clearly I didn't word something the right way.
TTFN
I will ‘echo’ Peak’s sentiments, almost verbatim: [Steve, sorry this was written and sent, but came in after your post #269; Harry]
I know that you have become increasingly excited by the denial, you have encouraged Sue to give you. But now, to want to deny her, what she has clearly stated she wants, a true re-connection with you. It just doesn't somehow ring true, from the man who has posted so much, over the last five years about the loving renewals you have had.
Especially that you so recently posted the following:
“We also talked honestly about things. She said she felt many of the same things that I did, and even made some of the same comments I have, that we find the same things arousing for different reasons. I was surprised to hear her recognizing [the same things] I had, and that’s when she came out and said that she, sort of, wanted to, "redefine" our relationship to, as she said, "embrace it.”
She said she'd been thinking about how great the weekends we went away were, and how wonderful it was for us to reconnect as meaningfully as we did - and she was quite clear about it - that she loved feeling me cum in her again and loved experiencing the full range of her orgasm with me. She continued to say that she found it almost more exciting to know she was going to wait to share that with me, again echoing my thoughts I've shared here about almost feeling more fulfilled in some ways.” [from post #245]
And.... “I do believe her desire for me is genuine though. She hasn't been with Robert now in over 2 weeks, and when we were playing around, and she spoke of wanting me, there was a noticeable change in how wet her pussy felt, as well as how responsive she was. I've always felt that from her, and as I've said, I feel that has been something that's maybe been enabling me, and allowing me to not feel the type of concern that others here have expressed.” [from post #254]
Cheers, Harry
I know that you have become increasingly excited by the denial, you have encouraged Sue to give you. But now, to want to deny her, what she has clearly stated she wants, a true re-connection with you. It just doesn't somehow ring true, from the man who has posted so much, over the last five years about the loving renewals you have had.
Especially that you so recently posted the following:
“We also talked honestly about things. She said she felt many of the same things that I did, and even made some of the same comments I have, that we find the same things arousing for different reasons. I was surprised to hear her recognizing [the same things] I had, and that’s when she came out and said that she, sort of, wanted to, "redefine" our relationship to, as she said, "embrace it.”
She said she'd been thinking about how great the weekends we went away were, and how wonderful it was for us to reconnect as meaningfully as we did - and she was quite clear about it - that she loved feeling me cum in her again and loved experiencing the full range of her orgasm with me. She continued to say that she found it almost more exciting to know she was going to wait to share that with me, again echoing my thoughts I've shared here about almost feeling more fulfilled in some ways.” [from post #245]
And.... “I do believe her desire for me is genuine though. She hasn't been with Robert now in over 2 weeks, and when we were playing around, and she spoke of wanting me, there was a noticeable change in how wet her pussy felt, as well as how responsive she was. I've always felt that from her, and as I've said, I feel that has been something that's maybe been enabling me, and allowing me to not feel the type of concern that others here have expressed.” [from post #254]
Cheers, Harry
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So, I'm confused. Harry - are you saying you posted that update before mine showed up? I'm not sure how to read what you are saying other than again, based on how I must have worded things, that you agreed with Peak that I was intending to deny her our time together during Christmas.
I see the passage you quoted from what looks like #245 - but in that reference to her waiting to share that with me again, it was a general comment, not meant to imply that she or I were going to pass up on our holiday plans.
But it is late now and I need to be in the office early tomorrow.
I see the passage you quoted from what looks like #245 - but in that reference to her waiting to share that with me again, it was a general comment, not meant to imply that she or I were going to pass up on our holiday plans.
But it is late now and I need to be in the office early tomorrow.
Well I had to reread this a few times but this is what I got out of STB's posts.
1) Sue is enjoying the "new Norm"
2) Sue is enjoying that STB is not the main person for sexual pleasure
3) Sue enjoys his denial but also enjoys there reconnection times that she would like to keep for special occasions (Christmas/New Yrs/Etc)
4) This one is kind of a guess but I think I read it correctly "when she denies him it makes her want her lover more"
5) Right now she is happy with it being for special occasions but anything can happen and its possible if she meets another guy like Don that there is a chance that it could be 100% denial and/also it could be 100% denial in the furture just because its what they might want
6) But if it does come to that they both will need to want it and be ok with it
STB do you think that is an accurate summary of what your saying? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
1) Sue is enjoying the "new Norm"
2) Sue is enjoying that STB is not the main person for sexual pleasure
3) Sue enjoys his denial but also enjoys there reconnection times that she would like to keep for special occasions (Christmas/New Yrs/Etc)
4) This one is kind of a guess but I think I read it correctly "when she denies him it makes her want her lover more"
5) Right now she is happy with it being for special occasions but anything can happen and its possible if she meets another guy like Don that there is a chance that it could be 100% denial and/also it could be 100% denial in the furture just because its what they might want
6) But if it does come to that they both will need to want it and be ok with it
STB do you think that is an accurate summary of what your saying? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
LOL - yes - you got it in 6 short sentences - what took me much longer to get out....
I think, if I could add a thought, its that right now - the feeling I have is that we want to explore and enjoy what we're doing. No doubt it's heightened things a bit further between us and has certainly changed things in terms of our communication as well as her acceptance of her own desires. I do have fantasies - yes, I've said I'd enjoy seeing her fall for another guy, yes, I've said that in the right circumstances I could accept more/longer denial. She's admitted she shares some of these same fantasies - and has been able to explain enough to confirm my thoughts, that the same things arouse us from different perspectives. Right now - they are just that. fantasies that we have fun with and explore and perhaps even experiment with - but what I truly feel from her is that she doesn't want that for real - for it to become out lifestyle - right now. It arouses me and scares me at times to think that there could be another guy out there who could being this out in her - but again, as she's said and as I've long felt - that if it's something we do together, and that it's mutual between us, then her statement is right, that neither of us truly knows what will be.
I've probably said too much or said something I would rather have re-worded but there it is.
Good night all.
I think, if I could add a thought, its that right now - the feeling I have is that we want to explore and enjoy what we're doing. No doubt it's heightened things a bit further between us and has certainly changed things in terms of our communication as well as her acceptance of her own desires. I do have fantasies - yes, I've said I'd enjoy seeing her fall for another guy, yes, I've said that in the right circumstances I could accept more/longer denial. She's admitted she shares some of these same fantasies - and has been able to explain enough to confirm my thoughts, that the same things arouse us from different perspectives. Right now - they are just that. fantasies that we have fun with and explore and perhaps even experiment with - but what I truly feel from her is that she doesn't want that for real - for it to become out lifestyle - right now. It arouses me and scares me at times to think that there could be another guy out there who could being this out in her - but again, as she's said and as I've long felt - that if it's something we do together, and that it's mutual between us, then her statement is right, that neither of us truly knows what will be.
I've probably said too much or said something I would rather have re-worded but there it is.
Good night all.
SoonToBe said:
Steve, This is the paragraph I was responding to, where you appear to be encouraging Sue to "completely deny" you, but, although she thought it could be "fun", she advised you "lets just enjoy this for now and not overthink the future."
Add that to what you quoted from her in post #245: that she "loved feeling me cum in her again and loved experiencing the full range of her orgasm with me." Sue seems to be the only force, holding you back from turning your fantasies into realities.
Yes, It has happened to me several times that I compose a 'letter' to post, (i do it in another file, copy then 'paste' it into the forum) then 'drop' it in only to find that another letter arrived before mine.
Obviously my posting would have been somewhat different, if I had the opportunity to read your answer to Peak. Although I still think (as Sue has also said) that you are crazy to want to even consider "total denial" and, that you want to "experience Sue falling in love with another man." That's not even a "slippery slope" That's a precipice!!!
Cheers, Harry
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That's the bit Harry. The transcription by Pnis may have been factually correct as far as it went but it didn't convey either the emotional underlay of the original nor the disconnect with what has gone before over a long time. There is a difference between natural progression, sliding down a slippery slope and jumping headlong off a cliff. I'm confused just which is happening at the moment.
Yes, Peak. It seems sometimes, that "roll playing" is not enough for Steve. He wants the full misery of the real thing. I hesitate to speculate on the why!
Sometimes I have to wonder if this journal Steve is writing is really pages from a' journal, already written,' and a 'lives already lived.'
In which case, there is no way to change the ending.
I say, Sometimes I wonder! But I prefer to have hope.
Harry
Sometimes I have to wonder if this journal Steve is writing is really pages from a' journal, already written,' and a 'lives already lived.'
In which case, there is no way to change the ending.
I say, Sometimes I wonder! But I prefer to have hope.
Harry
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This is from post #194 from Steve
She again seemed to want reassurances from me that I liked what we were doing. At several points she was quite clear about what she wanted to hear from me including my admission that I am still very aroused by us using condoms together. I asked her how she felt about it and she said some things that I knew were coming but may not have been totally ready to hear. She told me that she was still very turned on by what we were doing - for her, she says that seeing me pull out of her and seeing the tip of the condom full of my cum makes her incredibly horny - and she made it clear that my arousal has become hers now too. I know she was partly kidding but also partly serious when she said quite clearly that it is changing for her - that knowing it turns me on is still a part of her arousal - but she wanted me to understand that she is beginning to feel and accept that she is enjoying denying me and she said that if we continued, that she wasn't sure how things were going to be in the future.
That struck me. I knew we've been playing with this and it's been very satisfying for us both - and I knew that over time she was going to like it for herself more than knowing that it's something I am also turned on by. She said what she's said all the time - that if I ever truly needed to feel her and cum in her that I could and she wouldn't ever say no - and she promised me that on special-occasions (she mentioned Christmas and other holidays) that she would always want me bare and that our time away alone is meant for just that - for us to reconnect. But then she said what I had known was coming since the start of the conversation - she said that she wanted me to know that she no longer considered this something we were just trying out and that she very much liked how she felt in our relationship since we started using condoms. She said she hoped it didn't hurt me to hear it but that she feels that this change in our sexual relationship has been good for us - and with my admission of wanting to be the beta-male (not how she refers to it) - that she feels this is something that works for us and reinforces the feelings and desires I've brought out in her.
Then this from post #265 by Steve
A "lifestyle" vs. a type of role-playing. I suppose, in a way, Sue and I are still in the role-playing stage of this. I suppose acceptance of the lifestyle would perhaps more cement the roles we are playing - thing is I'm still not sure of how she feels about truly confirming this to be our new norm vs. the playing we are doing now. Or, is it already too late - and the norm has been established by default, in which case I suppose we are much further down the road than I may think we are.
I am I the only one who is a bit confused by the contradictions here? In post #194, Sue clearly is stating to Steve that she no longer is considering this as something that is just being tried but it now is how it is. There was even a warning earlier in the same post where Sue says she is enjoying denying Steve now and can't be sure where things will go in the future. Then in post #265, Steve, doesn't consider them in the lifestyle but still role-playing, and is still unsure what Sue feels is the new norm despite her clearly telling Steve already. According to another post (which occurred in between 194 and 265 and wasn't able to copy), Sue clearly feels there has been a "redefinition of the marital roles" in the relationship.
I have truly enjoyed the sharing of this story, but I must say, I am not sure Steve is really listening to Sue at times. Once Sue took a regular lover, Steve and Sue were pretty much in the lifestyle. Even prior to Steve telling Sue he wanted other men to be her main lovers instead of him, Sue had repeatedly told him she was always going to need a lover on the side now that she has experienced it. Maybe it is just as well that Sue is now leading the way. There are signs Steve could actually have been holding back Sue's progress in fulfilling her desires.
And now to post #267
We talked and she told me that thinking of her own pussy as something that only her lover truly got to enjoy and feel made her feel incredibly sexual and incredibly turned on. She said that when she'd think that way - that it heightened everything she felt. And that was when she turned to me and said that she knew it turned me on too and that was still a big part of what drove her own desire "knowing both of my guys want it to be this way".
Is this a new revelation that there are outside forces helping guide things? Does this mean Robert has been helping to encourage Sue in making Steve a condom only husband?
She again seemed to want reassurances from me that I liked what we were doing. At several points she was quite clear about what she wanted to hear from me including my admission that I am still very aroused by us using condoms together. I asked her how she felt about it and she said some things that I knew were coming but may not have been totally ready to hear. She told me that she was still very turned on by what we were doing - for her, she says that seeing me pull out of her and seeing the tip of the condom full of my cum makes her incredibly horny - and she made it clear that my arousal has become hers now too. I know she was partly kidding but also partly serious when she said quite clearly that it is changing for her - that knowing it turns me on is still a part of her arousal - but she wanted me to understand that she is beginning to feel and accept that she is enjoying denying me and she said that if we continued, that she wasn't sure how things were going to be in the future.
That struck me. I knew we've been playing with this and it's been very satisfying for us both - and I knew that over time she was going to like it for herself more than knowing that it's something I am also turned on by. She said what she's said all the time - that if I ever truly needed to feel her and cum in her that I could and she wouldn't ever say no - and she promised me that on special-occasions (she mentioned Christmas and other holidays) that she would always want me bare and that our time away alone is meant for just that - for us to reconnect. But then she said what I had known was coming since the start of the conversation - she said that she wanted me to know that she no longer considered this something we were just trying out and that she very much liked how she felt in our relationship since we started using condoms. She said she hoped it didn't hurt me to hear it but that she feels that this change in our sexual relationship has been good for us - and with my admission of wanting to be the beta-male (not how she refers to it) - that she feels this is something that works for us and reinforces the feelings and desires I've brought out in her.
Then this from post #265 by Steve
A "lifestyle" vs. a type of role-playing. I suppose, in a way, Sue and I are still in the role-playing stage of this. I suppose acceptance of the lifestyle would perhaps more cement the roles we are playing - thing is I'm still not sure of how she feels about truly confirming this to be our new norm vs. the playing we are doing now. Or, is it already too late - and the norm has been established by default, in which case I suppose we are much further down the road than I may think we are.
I am I the only one who is a bit confused by the contradictions here? In post #194, Sue clearly is stating to Steve that she no longer is considering this as something that is just being tried but it now is how it is. There was even a warning earlier in the same post where Sue says she is enjoying denying Steve now and can't be sure where things will go in the future. Then in post #265, Steve, doesn't consider them in the lifestyle but still role-playing, and is still unsure what Sue feels is the new norm despite her clearly telling Steve already. According to another post (which occurred in between 194 and 265 and wasn't able to copy), Sue clearly feels there has been a "redefinition of the marital roles" in the relationship.
I have truly enjoyed the sharing of this story, but I must say, I am not sure Steve is really listening to Sue at times. Once Sue took a regular lover, Steve and Sue were pretty much in the lifestyle. Even prior to Steve telling Sue he wanted other men to be her main lovers instead of him, Sue had repeatedly told him she was always going to need a lover on the side now that she has experienced it. Maybe it is just as well that Sue is now leading the way. There are signs Steve could actually have been holding back Sue's progress in fulfilling her desires.
And now to post #267
We talked and she told me that thinking of her own pussy as something that only her lover truly got to enjoy and feel made her feel incredibly sexual and incredibly turned on. She said that when she'd think that way - that it heightened everything she felt. And that was when she turned to me and said that she knew it turned me on too and that was still a big part of what drove her own desire "knowing both of my guys want it to be this way".
Is this a new revelation that there are outside forces helping guide things? Does this mean Robert has been helping to encourage Sue in making Steve a condom only husband?
Jax, This is the paragraph you couldn't copy, (with my emphasis added) from post #265
"When we did get up to the bedroom, Sue was quite playful, and instead of being focused on where my head was, she was all horny about next week. She teased me that I must be getting 'hornier for her,' and rather than try to remember everything about the conversation - I'll put it here, that SHE is definitely turned on by this, ‘redefinition of our sexual relationship’ - and she made it quite clear that she wants to celebrate, and most definitely enjoy when I will cum in her again. She cooed and teased me about how much she missed it from me, and made it clear that she wants it to be something ‘special we share,’ when we do it. I casually mentioned that, "...oh, I thought it might not be as important to you now..." She responded very strongly to that. She said that since our decision back in August, that she's come to sort of understand the significance of sharing that moment with me. She said it in other words, but basically said that now that she shares that, with other guys (she said guys - plural) that she feels even more strongly about making when we do it, [when I cum in her bare] to be something special for us. And again she mentioned how she liked the ‘redefinition of our marriage’ to not, essentially be, centered around, ‘my sexually satisfying her.’ She said that while she may do and feel things with other guys, that she still wants, (and she also used the word "needs") - to feel that with me.
Now, that wasn't one whole discussion, but it puts together the pieces that spanned before, - and after, our fun and some of it was repeated several times over the course of the night."
So here is a 'flip-flop' from what Jax quoted from Sue, where she is 'very clear' about Steve having her "bare" if only on "special occasions."
Then this other guys addition, seems to have 'slid by' unnoticed. Is there already another guy besides Robert? (she hasn't acknowledged being with Tony yet) Could it be that she has already been with Tony, or someone else, and just hasn't told you yet?
As Jax has questioned, Robert seems to be advising her about how to approach Tony. Has there been "other guy's" besides Robert already?
Harry
"When we did get up to the bedroom, Sue was quite playful, and instead of being focused on where my head was, she was all horny about next week. She teased me that I must be getting 'hornier for her,' and rather than try to remember everything about the conversation - I'll put it here, that SHE is definitely turned on by this, ‘redefinition of our sexual relationship’ - and she made it quite clear that she wants to celebrate, and most definitely enjoy when I will cum in her again. She cooed and teased me about how much she missed it from me, and made it clear that she wants it to be something ‘special we share,’ when we do it. I casually mentioned that, "...oh, I thought it might not be as important to you now..." She responded very strongly to that. She said that since our decision back in August, that she's come to sort of understand the significance of sharing that moment with me. She said it in other words, but basically said that now that she shares that, with other guys (she said guys - plural) that she feels even more strongly about making when we do it, [when I cum in her bare] to be something special for us. And again she mentioned how she liked the ‘redefinition of our marriage’ to not, essentially be, centered around, ‘my sexually satisfying her.’ She said that while she may do and feel things with other guys, that she still wants, (and she also used the word "needs") - to feel that with me.
Now, that wasn't one whole discussion, but it puts together the pieces that spanned before, - and after, our fun and some of it was repeated several times over the course of the night."
So here is a 'flip-flop' from what Jax quoted from Sue, where she is 'very clear' about Steve having her "bare" if only on "special occasions."
Then this other guys addition, seems to have 'slid by' unnoticed. Is there already another guy besides Robert? (she hasn't acknowledged being with Tony yet) Could it be that she has already been with Tony, or someone else, and just hasn't told you yet?
As Jax has questioned, Robert seems to be advising her about how to approach Tony. Has there been "other guy's" besides Robert already?
Harry
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