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Denial discussion

Harry - thanks for the feedback and explanations. I know that there's more that she will tell me eventually - but for now, some barriers have been brought down and there's much more candor. I still have some apprehensiveness - others here pointed that out long ago that I would probably feel what I do now, ceding more control to her.

I'm glad though that I've finally conveyed the type of desire that all of this gives me - both here and to her. I don't know why but even after all this time, it's still hard to be, at first, comfortably open with her about all of this - but it is so much easier now than in the past, and now, we both seem to open up more which - as 'she pointed out, makes her feel wonderfully close to me.

Far2 - I don't think you're right on your last comment - she's clearly told me that she very much enjoys the sex we are having - condom included and that she values that level of sharing.

Sometimes it's a bit much to think about it all - and there are even still some moments when I think that I don't want to do this, but they are all but nonexistent now compared to how I know (and have re-read) I was in the past.

Not sure where the road will lead but she's surely keeping me on edge.
 
STB,
You may have gone over your feelings on that ground before but doing so again in such detail, with Sue, was clearly a cathartic experience. Probably for you both. I'm not sure if that was the first time that Sue opened up to you in that vein, or just the first time you reported it, but it clearly broke through some barrier. Not unsurprisingly, this leaves you in slightly new territory, and a little unsure of your bearings perhaps. It has passed before and it will again. I remain sceptical that firstly Robert will last to new year, or that Sue will not want to feel you fully in her over Thanksgiving or Christmas. Seems a bit cold to me. However much the thought in advance feels you may need to be playing one of your 'override' cards before 2014.

I suspect a small dam has burst for Sue too. Expect more revelations, and fantasies soon. Should be interesting. ..
 
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Home early from work (had to pick our daughter up at school so headed home afterwards).

Peak - thanks - I think you captured somewhat how I feel about what we opened up about on Wednesday.

I think she was uneasy at first opening up and talking about it - but once she got started, it seemed to be like I've felt at times, that it was just easy for her to talk about. As Harry pointed out - we've talked about a lot of this before - a little here and a little there - but this was one of the first times we'd really discussed it both more focused and for more than just a short question or statement. I do think that she may have more on her mind than she's shared thus far - but I'm also not sure she's able to verbalize it all just yet. I think she's getting past the point where she should be concerned that she might upset me or something like that - but I can't pull it out of her either. All I can really do is support her and encourage her to open up when she is ready.

Scared isn't the right word to describe how I feel. I'm incredibly excited that we've been able to talk so openly - and it does feel good to finally have conveyed some of my most intense thoughts with her. So scared isn't the word. Neither is "apprehensive" either. But i do feel like I am not so sure where this is going now that it's out in the open. I well expect that there's more revelations, fantasies and other that will undoubtedly come out over the next few weeks/months.

I do think you're correct about Robert fading out before the holidays. But on the other hand, she seems very calm and relaxed about only seeing him once a week and is much more accepting that it is rapidly just turning into more of a friends-with-benefits type of arrangement - she seems satisfied with this change. But I recall this type of change in attitude with her and Frank where she became more nonchalant about it all - and that was surely a sign of the end being near.

About Thanksgiving or Christmas - yeah, I know what you're saying - and I don't expect her to stand-fast then. The holidays typically get her a bit more emotional and that could surely lead to her wanting "more" between us. As far as me playing my 'override' card - it's too far out in the distance to really see that just yet.

More as it happens. I think tonight we have some "alone time" planned... I've been horny since I posted my updates yesterday.
 
Steve,
Hope my next question makes sense; why do you think Sue is not letting you have her bare most of the time now?

Is it because she is turned on by the power she has over you, she wants her lovers to feel special, or she wants you to feel a cucked (inferior to her lover). Knowing you, you probably won't appreciate the last one.
 
STB

Hope you and sue had a great weekend .

is sue going to see robert today. and does sue know how it is going with his new friend haves. sue said anything about robert going forward ,
with her or the new girl ye.

keep us posted.
 
Far2 - that's probably too far for her to think right now. I say that because from this past weekend, it's become apparent to me that while she may desire/accept what we're doing, she's not totally sure about just how to bring it into our repertoire.

She surprised me Friday night by opening her night-stand and showing me a new box of condoms and she said lovingly that we needed to restock. I hadn't seen TMW's question yet at that point but I did say something to her about "being serious" about all of this. All she said again was that it turned her on to do this and later as we got into things she did say that it turned her on that her pussy was just for her lover. At a later point she also said that it turned her on to know that she was denying me and that it turned me on - I asked her if it turned her on because it turned me on - she was quiet for a second and she said "that's part of it, but it does make me horny to think about it too" and then she said "after all, it is mine!" I laughed a little and then told her that was true but not much more was said even though I was a little surprised to hear her say that.

What we talked about over the weekend after that seemed to play on her emerging awareness that I'm okay her playing with this stuff with me. I think she's found it hard to find the right balance and she even admitted to not being sure of what I would be okay with. I told her that I loved it all (she doesn't know I have a chronology of it to look back on - but that made it easier for me to find the right things to say) and that there wasn't anything she'd done that we couldn't "play with". She giggled and asked about "even stuff with Don?" and I told her that I know that she'd done things with him that at the time may have bothered me - and I told her about how I didn't like how it felt when we were out and he seemed to flaunt that you were with him that night - she asked and I told her that the rest of the time with him was pretty intense and that looking back, he'd been responsible for a lot of stuff that's gone on between us. It was her that said (reminded) me that he wanted her to cut me off totally - and she giggled that "maybe he'd have been content with what we're doing now?". That thought seemed to interest her and she looked at me and said "do you ever think about that?".

That led to a bit of a discussion that - eventually - led to me telling her that she could tease me about it and play up the whole thing a bit more than she is. She asked me for an example and I told her that she could make it a point of telling me that she's "been naughty" when she gets home. She said she wasn't sure where that line was, on what she could/should do like that - AND - she admitted that she held back at times because of that. (I had to laugh inside - she's so concerned with how I'd feel about stuff like this but she's still seeing him at the same time! lol).

Well, as we got past foreplay Friday night, she started to open up a bit more. She sucked me until I was near bursting and then giggled a little as she said something like "now get that rubber on so none of that gets inside me any more!". I think she was giggling because she was unsure about - at least she was unsure until I moaned out loud and pulled it on with lightning speed. I felt huge as I knelt above her and she handed me some lubricant and said "you should use some of this so I don't get sore!". OMG - I can't describe how horny I was at that moment. She pulled her knees back and I plunged in. She looked up at me with glazedy eyes and said something like "you can feel Robbies pussy next month" as she rolled into a first full orgasm underneath me.

I can't recall much after that - she didn't go overboard but she didn't hold back either. She looked up at me with these deep dreamy eyes and said stuff at times with this sexy sarcastic way "awww, do you miss feeling me baby?" and at other times she would tease me more and would push the envelope and my response when she tested the water and said "maybe you'll have to wait longer - you feel really good right now". I've long said that I can't hide the truth in terms of how I seem to fuck her harder and deeper as she gets me more and more turned on. By this point no lube was needed either - even through the condom I could feel how slick and open she felt. She knew I could feel it and seeing my reaction she, hesitatingly at first, but then she let go with more and more. When she knew I was close she looked up at me and said something about it feeling great "knowing you're not cumming in me". It was weird that was what pushed me over - it wasn't so explicit - but it conjured up so much in my head. She'd already floated through several deep orgasms herself - each one gave me intense feelings as I could feel them but knew that I couldn't at the same time. All of that played in my head at the end for sure.

I lay against her as we both kissed and hugged a bit - until she nudged me off of her and said "don't make a mess in me please" and she reached down and pulled out my softening cock and held the condom in place. She looked up at me as I knelt above her and she had that glazed look in her eye and as she slid the condom off my cock she seemed to quiver for a second as if she'd had a chill come over her - she looked up at me and said "this is just so erotic to do with you" as she pulled the condom off and held it in her hand. She hugged me and said "I can't explain it baby but that is almost the most erotic thing I've ever felt". She kissed me and then said "is it really okay with you that we do this?". I nodded yes.

That experience on Friday night seemed to have kept in line with what'd been going on already - that she really seemed to want to accept things and now, it felt like she was feeling me out on just what I wanted her to be open about and to share. As we lay in bed that night we kind of cuddled and she again said how she wanted to make sure it was all good for me, "even the, you know, teasing stuff". I told her that I was pretty sure she could tell what turned me on.

So TMW - in a way it's all 3 of your answers combined - but I'm not sure that Sue would necessarily use the word "inferior", I might have said she'd use the word "preferred"). And yes, even with "preferred" in there - the last one does give me the most feeling one way or another....

We continued some of this into last night too - but that's another post for another time.
 
Dana - she is seeing him tomorrow night - that appears to be what works for both of them.

In keeping with my earlier post - she's become a bit more candid about it too. Including quipping to me this morning as she got dressed and I watched her pull up her panties she turned to me and said "are you thinking about him having me tomorrow?" when she caught me staring. I just smiled and as I did she had this wonderful smile come over her face.
 
Hi

Just wanted to share our situation with you. Ali and I discussed early on how our sex life would change if we started back up. I was the one who suggested no sex except with the bulls and handjobs and blowjobs for me. So far this has been a turn on for me and a pretty big turn on for Ali. I was a little surprised how much she would like it. I think the fact of knowing she is going bare with some of them and that I don't get any is hot for her. She also likes that if she did by accident get pregnant she would know it was from them and not me. Just wanted to share that little bit with you and would love your opinion on our post as well.
 
SoonToBe said:
"So TMW - in a way it's all 3 of your answers combined - but I'm not sure that Sue would necessarily use the word "inferior", I might have said she'd use the word "preferred"). And yes, even with "preferred" in there - the last one does give me the most feeling one way or other."
Click to expand...

So then 'TMW' is right, because by using the word "preferred". It means that 'preferring' her lover over you. puts you in an 'inferior' position. Compared to her 'lover' in her sex life. When considering the 'overall' result.

Cheers. Harry
 
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dana007 said:
STB

Hope you and sue had a great weekend .

is sue going to see robert today. and does sue know how it is going with his new friend haves. sue said anything about robert going forward ,
with her or the new girl ye.

keep us posted.
Click to expand...

So what is the status with Robert and his new woman?? Surely they would have done the "Nasty" by now as it has been at least a month since their first date. I also would like an update to know where things stand with him and Sue. Perhaps one slightly older, semi-dominant, baggage free, respectable gent would make an excellent Christmas present. A gift that would surely keep on giving (at least for the short term anyway).
 
Let's not get too hung up on semantics. Robert is the lover here. His only purpose in Sue's life is to give her sexual pleasure. Which she is glad to return. If he's actually worse at that than her own husband then what is the point? So yes, even in the autumn of their relationship, he is better than STB. That's one reason why there is still angst for him.

Is it strange that Sue has stopped talking about Robert's new girlfriend? Maybe not. We know he takes things slowly. He's trying to find a mother for his children so I don't blame him. Sue may also have her own line she won't cross. Maybe at the moment she doesn't want to know. That would make her relationship with him more mechanical, less emotional for her, but that appears to be happening slowly.
 
Just a moment before heading into work. I'll quiz Sue but I have to agree with Peak - that they've probably been to bed already. Guessing, it might be another reason for the shift in Sue's attitude that I seem to be feeling. I know that Sue intends to keep seeing Robert for as long as she can (or as long as she's comfortable). Just this morning as she was getting dressed she again saw me staring and as she looked in the mirror she smiled and said "you're thinking about me later aren't you?". I nodded and asked her what she was thinking about and she said "pretty much the same - it makes me look forward to it even more". As I was getting dressed a bit later and she was doing her make up she came by and kissed my neck/shoulder and said "you can think about me all day" and then she added "maybe I'll let you feel me when I get home" and she kissed me again and just went about her business.

CSC - no talk yet about who's next (sounds kind of funny to say it that way) but I am quite sure she's missing her second day with him lately. It's weird because back before we started all of this, she was quite content with just our 2x a week.

Harry - inferior doesn't equal non-preferred - and I think that's perhaps the difference I feel from Sue and where some of the difficulty I think we feel at times originates. She's not into humiliating me, really, in any way. I associate "inferior" to being a put-down or a negative comparison when I don't think she's comparing us at all in terms of what we do for/with her (Robert and I) - vs. - what seems to pique her interest and arouse her more. For as much as I get off on the denial aspect in general - she seems very fixated on her arousal at knowing she "prefers" her lover to be the only one to be in her bare and to cum in her. Not sure if I'm explaining this the way I'm thinking it - but I'm watching the clock to head into the office.

BoandAli - I can definitely understand what you're saying you suggested and are trying. In a way it's a page from the same book as Sue and I. You, like me, get off on denying yourself something that is so intimate and that you get off on her sharing that with other guys. I get it - I wish I could explain it, but I totally understand it. However after now almost 4 months in total of us using condoms together (except for our 2 get-aways) - I can say that I don't think either Sue or I could do without the physical act of making love. After this long together, this is something that I know we share the same opinion on (her and I) - that we need to feel each other close and intimate like that and that we, in essence, need to feel it in each other that we can still connect as one. At least that's how I'd explain it. In my head, no matter what she may do with others, that we can still reconnect as well as we do cinches it that this is all working for us for right now and it makes me feel that my feelings are validated.

That said - I can definitely understand arousal at being denied her pussy totally. We tried/toyed with that and still do at times - but it's not viable for us for the longer term and to be honest, I'm not sure it'd be a good thing for us to do. What's that the automakers say - "your mileage may vary". If it works for you go for it. I totally understand the arousal at knowing your wife is doing things with others that she isn't with you - yours is just a different degree of it.

Gotta run.
 
SoonToBe said:
"Harry - inferior doesn't equal non-preferred - and I think that's perhaps the difference I feel from Sue and where some of the difficulty I think we feel at times originates. She's not into humiliating me, really, in any way. I associate "inferior" to being a put-down or a negative comparison when I don't think she's comparing us at all in terms of what we do for/with her (Robert and I) - vs. - what seems to pique her interest and arouse her more. For as much as I get off on the denial aspect in general - she seems very fixated on her arousal at knowing she "prefers" her lover to be the only one to be in her bare and to cum in her. Not sure if I'm explaining this the way I'm thinking it."
Click to expand...

I realize that "TMW1966' was associating 'Inferior' in a "put-down" context, but the definition is: 1. a person lower than another in rank, status, or ability. Prefer means to "like one person better than another." Sue is putting Robert in a 'higher status' -or- 'rank' by "preferring" him to cum in her, rather than you. That does not mean that she likes Robert better than you overall, just that she want's to have his cum in her and not yours.
That's why I related the two statements, Yours, and TMW's as ultimately meaning the same.

Cheers, Harry
 
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Harry2614 said:
I realize that "TMW1966' was associating 'Inferior' in a "put-down" context, but the definition is: 1. a person lower than another in rank, status, or ability. Prefer means to "like one person better than another." Sue is putting Robert in a 'higher status' -or- 'rank' by "preferring" him to cum in her, rather than you. That does not mean that she likes Robert better than you overall, just that she want's to have his cum in her and not yours.
That's why I related the two statements, Yours, and TMW's as ultimately meaning the same.

Cheers, Harry
Click to expand...

Semantics or not the point is Sue has now become fixated on the idea that she no longer wants her HUSBAND to come in her (except for get-aways and special occasions which will be spaced out throughout the year). She further wishes this practice to extend long-term and so will become a New Marriage Norm for the couple, perhaps extending into the Nursing Home.
Although I don't see anything particularly negative about her decision, as their "condom-only" time has so far only served to amp up the closeness and intensity in the relationship, I think the important things here are: 1) her thinking/feeling leading up to the decision, 2) what the creation of this "new norm" really represents to her.
Obviously to come to this end after a 30 year plus relationship with her husband Sue has done much thinking/considering. This just wasn't something she "came up with" overnight. (no pun intended) Having said this it would stand to reason that "not wanting" her husband to come in her has some VERY significant meaning to her far beyond what she has currently provided.
And I agree with what Steve and others have already posted that to have an idea as significant and unusual as this come to light now would probably indicate that she has further ideas with at least as much significance and originality waiting to surface.
 
Well Steve, if more revelations are coming, they might just start tonight. Be sure to pay attention in between your highlights. . Wouldn't want to miss anything ...
 
Harry, I concede to your explanation as being correct. I guess, to be honest, it is a little humbling to recognize it for what it is.

For CSC - I'm not sure that we've "..come to this end..." as you say - but she's definitely expressed that it turns her on to know and think about what we're doing (or not doing). If there is a deeper meaning, I'm not sure she's aware of it (yet). I do know that the old Letters story did stick with her so there's always been some thought in this direction, I suppose.

She's out picking up our daughter at the mall so I have some time while I horn up for later tonight.

I've been thinking about what she's said and how she's said it - and in a way, I almost think she's aroused in the same way as I am, just from the other point of view. CSC - you point out that we have 30+ years together - and what I'm beginning to think is that we have grown together over all of this time. Obviously we have - our kids have said for years that we have the exact same conversations (say the exact same things) when neither of us knew the other had done so. At other times we'll say the exact same things at the exact same times. Over the years, I suppose maybe testament to our happy marriage for all this time - is that we've grown together almost as one. I have long felt that we feed and fuel each others feelings and desires. I know we tried other forms of denial - panties, outright denial, etc., - and while she's never said it outright, I can say that I think I've felt it much in the same way that I did - that those never touched the right places or hit the right nerves. But this condom thing - it's hitting everything in the right place. She knows it turns me on - and in return - I know it turns her on. I'm not sure that it's so much that it's a sudden thing to have happen, or whether we have stumbled up on something that feeds both of us. Maybe we've become so close that the same things turn us on just from different directions. All those old Letters stories that turned me on - the naughty wives letters - they turned me on from the guys perspective - so maybe, if marriage has brought us together, that these same stories and ideas and such turn her on but from the other direction.

I think, from her response in some of our most recent times we've talked, that she's now understanding much more about what things we did in the past that turned me on most. I don't think she understood or could necessarily appreciate how - for example - it turned me on to have those "first times" with Don and Frank and not with me. But I think now, she has a better understanding. The relevance here is that I think we both understand how what we're doing with condoms now plays into my arousals from the past - and her's too - I have never overlooked that she went along with my desires without much resistance. I think my explaining that it gives me that feeling all the time - may have been what I said that clarified things for her and put them together. As I said, since that first time we really got stuff out, she's been much more relaxed about most everything.

She's been quite coy with me about teasing me that "I'll tell you all about it later" referring to yesterday with him. It's a bit of playfulness that's been absent a bit lately - again, I think, both of us coming to terms with the fact that this IS turning us on and it's not something we need to hide or dance-around. So - perhaps, with this sort of more openness - maybe some more answers will find their way out.

Anyway - let me run for now.
 
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Well - she did surprise me last night in several ways. One that was an eye-opener was her admission that "he watched me pee" !!!!
She knew that was going to surprise me and it did! As we lay in bed together she was a little giggley about this and when I pushed she explained that after they'd fucked - that she got up to go to the bathroom to pee (supposed to be good to prevent UTI's). He said "where are you going?" and she said "to the bathroom" and he jokingly replied "can I watch?". She said she didn't know what to say at first - and she even said to me that her first reaction was to think "ewww - gross". I was speechless - she's normally been pretty private in the bathroom area - even reluctant to come in and pee while I"m in the shower, etc. But she looked at me and said " after a second though, I just said 'okay', if that's what you want". She said she didnt't think he'd do it - but as she sat on the toilet she said he came in an knelt in front of her and he said "I've never seen a woman pee". She said she was kind of embarassed but she said "at the same time I was just lying next to him naked so I just closed my eyes and pretended he wasn't there". She said she spread her legs and started to pee. She said she could also feel that some of his cum was dripping out into the toilet too. She opened her eyes when she was done and said she was embarassed that he'd stared at her and watched the entire time.

I asked her in general what was up with all of this new-stuff that she was talking about and doing with him. She said that since our talks and the stuff she's been sharing with him - that she feels a bit more at ease with talking and doing things that she used to think were too far out or crazy. I jokingly asked if I could watch her pee and she giggled and said "if it's what you really want to". I told her "maybe" and she giggled again and told me "see, you are just as weird as he is".

It was kind of weird - it brought back a lot of feelings that I hadn't felt in a long time - sharing something that intimate and private. I took a little while this morning and read back some of my earliest postings here about how I felt seeing her and Brad together those first times and how I felt. I was turned on in a way - I mean I can picture her sitting there with her legs spread as he watched her - but I was also still a bit taken aback by it all.

It took a little bit to put it out of my mind and move into a more amorous mood - but I was horny already and once I got past the mental image of him watching her pee - I was getting horny again. In my head it took me a bit to move from one vision to another and when I focused on her sitting there with her pussy spread apart and him basically seeing everything there is - when I thought about the fact that his cum must have been seeping out also as she sat there, it did make me horny to think about her sharing that moment with him.

I don't have as much time as I normally would this morning as I am actually heading into the office - but we talked about a few different things - including a subject she brought up that - I think - foretells what she's thinking about.

She asked me to tell her again about how I felt when we first got together and she said "you know, when I was also going out with other guys from work". I told her what I'd long posted here, that it made me horny to think about and that I did like knowing what was going on - and I admitted that I enjoyed, in a weird way (at the time) knowing that other guys had been with her. She asked me what I thought about what the other guys (and me) felt about it. I told her that times were different back then about sex in general, but that I thought that it wasn't such a bad situation and that I didn't think it really affected anything. I told her it was much more about how she felt about it that mattered really.

I asked her what was going on and she simply said that "after things fade with Robbie, I was thinking.....".....

Unfortunately I need to run right now - and that's a good point to break this post on.
 
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