Hey all, sorry for the lapse in getting back here but, hey, life happens, right...
I did go see Frank on Tuesday as planned. I won't try to recap the entire conversation as I think that wouldn't work well as we were all over the place before we got down to the more important stuff.
I'm not sure where to start - but will say that in the conversation I became very aware and reminded of things that I and others have said and seen too - that Sue seems to be very much controlling Frank including getting him to see things differently. During our conversation, Frank told me that at first he couldn't understand why I was okay with him having sex with Sue - but that over the past few weeks, that Sue has actually explained to him about what goes on between her and I.
My immediate concern about what she may have told him was nothing to worry about as Sue did not tell him anything other than how turned on I am to her having sex with him. I can't recall exactly how it came up or what was said exactly (we'd had a few beers to get things going) but what he conveyed to me was that he sort of understood that very much in the same way that he's turned on about her as I am. I'm not doing justice to how he said it, but basically - he seemed to say that he understands that it turns me on to have her after she's had sex with him just as it turns him on to have sex with her after she's been with me!
That sort of eased our conversation a bit because as we talked, he seemed to understand a bit more of what's going on. As I said, Sue had been "coaching" him to not think it's so weird what's going on and to give him an idea of how it turned me on. I also saw from what he shared with me - that Sue hadn't told him of her panty-denial thing or anything beyond that. It was interesting because as he talked, I could hear him say this or that about Sue and it rang true to what we've all shared earlier about her controlling all of this.
He seemed a bit surprised and concerned when I told him that I didn't leave the last time I was there like he thought and that I'd stayed and spied on them a bit. That was where the conversation got a little awkward and Frank admitted to me that was also where he wasn't so sure of things. He seemed to struggle for how to explain things so I kind of took the lead and said that I knew that sometimes Sue really wanted him to fuck the hell out of her and I told him that I knew that last time was one of those times. He was quiet and then told me that he was surprised that I was okay with it all but then he also said that Sue had kind of gotten him a little more comfortable with it.
I kind of gave him some of our history - I didn't come out and say that we've/she's done this before - instead I told him how we'd fantasized for a long time, loved Penthouse Letters, done role-playing stuff, had gone to bars where she'd get hit on and that I'd even encouraged her to have fun while she was on that business trip. I 'fessed up and told him that I liked having a "naughty wife" and that I felt comfortable with him as her partner. I then asked him if I had anything to worry about!
Before he could answer me I told him that I was cool with them having sex and all that came with that - and I told him - including the type of sex I saw between them the last time - that I knew she wanted to give herself totally to him that time - and I again asked him if I had anything to worry about. He asked me - what was I concerned about and I just said to him "that you'll get too carried away or begin to feel that you want more". And - at that moment I also said to him "like this wedding thing" and I basically asked him if I was going to regret it.
He surprised me by saying he wasn't even sure if she was going to go with him, that he didn't think she and I had come to a decision. That was like the perfect segue for me to ask him what he was thinking - and it also let me ask him what he'd shared with his friends and family about Sue in general.
I was very happy with what Frank said in response. He made it clear to me that he would never put Sue in any jeopardy reputation-wise and that he hasn't told anyone about her including his brother and friends. The only thing he'd shared is that he'd "gotten lucky" a few times but that nothing was serious and he immediately added that if Sue did go to the wedding with him, that he'd do everything to simply say she's a friend of the family and nothing more.
That was when he looked at me and said that he didn't want anything, including the wedding, to be something that caused any problems and that if I/we were concerned, that she shouldn't go with him. My response was pretty simple - that I wasn't worried about us (Sue and I) as much as him and what he was feeling now and then. And I pretty much said to him that they'll be doing more than just dancing together.
He was quiet at that point for a minute and I have to say that I was worried as he started to speak - the first thing he said was that he liked Sue, liked her a lot. And I was dreading this at that point but he continued by saying that this was where he was really conflicted - that he's torn between (and he hesitated at this) "the great sex" and how he feels like it's not matching up with him liking her but not loving her. And he said that he feels like he's using her, and that he's told her the same, that it's not more than just sex in terms of emotions and such. He said several times that he's not looking for a relationship and in a totally serious voice he said he's surely not looking at one with Sue and he added that he hoped I knew that.
We'd had a few beers and slowly, the conversation became more eased. At one point I shared with him how it feels like a "first date" every time she comes home. I told him how exciting it is to kiss her and not yet know what she'd done all night, only that she was incredibly sexy. That as I would undress her - seeing her body and sexy undies - that it turned me on not knowing what I'd find her wearing and what may be underneath. And I think I put him at ease when I said something like "you know how that feels".
Like I said, the conversation became more eased and at one point Frank looked at me and said he was still uneasy when he thinks about me and then thinks about Sue. He actually said that the times it'd been the 3 of us that it'd actually been easier for him. He even said that "seeing the look on my face" made him feel okay - and he also shared that back-in-the-day that he'd had some 3-somes before. It's the times he's been alone with Sue that have given him all the concern. He said Sue's been coaching him on trying to understand me/us and that hearing me tell him that I wanted her to have the freedom to do what she wants did make him feel a lot better.
I told him that the 3-somes had been a lot of fun and that I liked sharing that with him, but I also told him that I knew Sue really enjoyed sex with him and I repeatedly told him that it was okay with me as long as they weren't getting carried away emotionally to which he assured me they weren't. What came out was that he'd never thought or even fantasized about anything like this with Joanne or anyone before him and that it's all a bit strange for him.
I went for broke and I let him know that I liked the excitement that the openness of them being together gave me. I didn't want to say that I liked Sue denying me and that sort of stuff, so I kind of beat around the bush a bit and said that hearing her talk about having sex with him turned me on and that she'd tease me and turn me on during sex about stuff with him. He said that she'd told him this stuff before but that hearing it from me did make him feel a bit more at ease. Then he sort of came out with more of his concerns. Basically he was, in some ways, concerned that I knew just how sexual she was with him. At one point he said "it's like it's more than just fucking".
I told him I knew that and I spent a few minutes telling him how crazy she and I have gotten in the past when she's been able to feel like she can truly let go of the everyday - I told him of how she'd get at the nude beach and how horny she'd be afterwards - I told him of the times we checked out the swing-clubs - and how intense she can be when I can get her away from home on vacation or just a night or weekend. And I said to him "so I know what's going to happen if she goes with you to the wedding". He basically came out and said he'd never been with someone so openly sexual as Sue is with him. He seemed to think he'd surprise me when he said "like do you know she likes to be naked all the time when she's here?". I told him I knew that, and that she'd told me so, which surprised him back. To which I added that I know how she is with him, more than just the nakedness, that I know that just like when she's been crazy with me - that she wants to have and do it all.