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Our "new norm"

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  • #401
Ugh - no time this morning - but will have time after work as Sue is seeing Paul but already said when she left this morning that "I won't be late".

Raks - they are a couple, I accept that. They're a couple when they are out together or at his place or when they went away together. Sue admitted later that she didn't think about or see me when she ran downstairs like that and apologized but I already knew that they didn't just sit there and hold-hands when they're alone so with her apology and his sheephishness about it, I have taken it as just an extension of the openness they'd started earlier on the couch.

Gotta run.
 
  • #402
Thanks for the fantastic updates Steve .... food for thought .... if you know your kids won't be around, maybe you should suggest to Sue and Paul that you and Paul do a "key swap for a few days". In this example, he gives you the key to his place, and you go pack a bag and live there for a few days, while Paul lives in your house for a few days. Of course it should be setup at a time where the kids won't be around .... There are other things you can do to spice it up ... e.g. play 18 holes of golf with him and the winner takes the prices of the home front with Sue, or roll the dice and that is how many night the alpha spends in the house with Sue versus the beta ....
 
  • #403
Steve - as always it is good to read your updates. Looking forward to reading more. :)
 
  • #404
Surprise - she came home MUCH earlier than expected last night but more about that in a moment.

So - as I was saying to finish the weekend for Peak and others - Paul was a little sheephish when he came down looking quite uncomfortable seemingly when he saw me still there. I suppose I could have gone downstairs to the den and left them alone but it was Sue who quietly apologized and said she hadn't thought more. I told her it was okay and that it was kind of sexy and she giggled.

It was a little awkward at first but as I said, I also realized that Sue wanted to see how this was going to work and as the three of us sat there I was convinced (confirmed after he left) that she was wanting to see how it might be on our ski trip. I can't remember exactly how long the 3 of us sat there talking but the 2 of them were on the couch together. Somehow I wound up asking quite candidly if they'd had fun upstairs - the question actually sounded nice as it could have referred to the tickling or more than that. Sue smiled and said something like "I sure did" which did kind of break the ice. I told them that I could hear them and that I'd watched at the end from the door. I don't remember exactly what she said but it was something about whether I enjoyed myself and when I said yes, she smiled and leaned onto Paul. We talked about other stuff but nothing of substance and to me it felt like they were trying to spend some time with me. When I got up and came back a moment later I could tell her robe had moved and her knee and part of her leg were visible and I suddenly felt like a 3rd wheel again. After sitting with them for a bit I said that I was going to go downstairs and watch some TV. She came over and followed me downstairs where she stopped me and we talked for a moment. She asked me if I was okay and I asked her if this was what she wanted to have happen and she said something like "well, yes and no" and then again apologized for her naked chase. I asked her if she and he played around like that at his place and she was quiet when she said "yes". I held her and told her that I wanted her to have fun and that it turned me on to see her running from him like she did and seeing the fun smile on her face.

We kissed for a moment and she asked me if I was going to be okay waiting till Sunday to have some fun with her and I said the obvious "yes" to her. She hugged me and said she loved me - and I know there are naysayers here but there's a time when you can feel it in another person how they truly feel and I know how she meant it. When she stepped back I went for it and asked her if she'd already had sex with him and she smiled and asked me "do you want to check and find out?" A second later she held her robe open and let me see her naked beneath it.

Absolutely took my breath away. She told me I could feel her if I wanted and I have to say it was perhaps the ultimate cuckold thrill for me to, with my hand shaking, run it down her body until I reached her stomach where she put her hand on mine and guided it the rest of the way. She stepped sideways a bit and then seemed to spread her legs and I felt her fingers around mine and I realized when I felt the wet warmth, that she'd spread her pussy lips for me. She guided my finger to where all the wetness was coming from and it was so erotic to be finger-fucking my wife like that.

She pulled my hand away just a moment later but that moment felt like an eternity. She pulled her robe shut and kissed me and asked me again if I was okay and when I nodded she simply said "see you in the morning". And that was that, she walked upstairs and when I went up later on, our bedroom door was shut. I didn't try to open it nor did I want to lie in bed masturbating - she told me Sunday would be for us so I waited.

I slept in a bit on Sunday morning and it was quiet when I woke up about 10-ish. Our bedroom door was cracked and not shut tightly and when I opened it I saw Sue lying there alone, asleep, so I left her alone. Going down to the kitchen I saw a note from Paul saying he hoped he'd been quiet leaving and that he had an early golf-game scheduled as the weather hasn't turned too cold yet. I wondered if it pissed her off.

Anyway - she came down a little while later and that was when we talked a bit about things. She told me she didn't know until later that night that he would be leaving early that morning. I don't recall the entire conversation about how we both felt about them being more free around me - but I know that she asked me how I felt about how they'd been when they'd been on the couch earlier and I told her that it'd turned me on and that I knew she was enjoying it. She told me that what she'd talked to Paul about was what they did when they came out in bath-robes, that it was just as I'd suspected, what she thought might go on when we're away skiing, but also asking me how I would feel if that were to be something they'd do when they were at our house. Before I answered she again said that the naked chase was out of line to push it in my face like that. I told her that I appreciated her honesty.

It's taking me ages to get this written so I'll just summarize by saying that I didn't know if I could take their naked-romp around the house as being something that goes on all the time - but that other than that, I thought it was very erotic that she could feel as comfortable around me as she was with him when they were alone. She asked "so it was okay both of us in robes and stuff?" and I told her that it would probably be okay. Paul was apparently surprised and then, as she said, accepting, that "maybe he is okay with all this" and she told him that he should just continue like they were and it would all be okay.

The thing was - as maybe Squirm can attest - the conversation itself was just incredibly rewarding and something that so pulled us close to each other that it was something that warmed both of us. She shared with me that Paul had NOT fucked her that morning before he left and she told me that she wanted to share that remaining horniness of hers with me!

Peak - not sure if you need to hear all the details about the sex last Sunday afternoon but it was awesome. We 69'ed for a long time and she eagerly sucked my cock while I licked her pussy. She didn't tell me to hold back, and while it wasn't running out of her like a river or anything, it was obvious from taste and wetness that they'd had sex again the night before which she eagerly shared details of. I can usually tell her desire-level from how she sucks my cock during foreplay - when she's just doing it for me, she'll suck me but just for a few minutes (she likes to feel my cock swell and grow hard in her mouth) but when she's into it - I can tell because she will pay a lot of attention to my cock - she'll suck and lick at the head and then take as much as she can into her mouth, her hands will caress my balls and stroke my cock into her mouth (which she now shared/confirmed that when she does that - it brings more pre-cum out of me and she says that is something that turns her on to taste).

I wondered if she was going to want to suck me off totally - and to be honest, being able to lie back and let her suck me dry did appeal to me but obviously my horniness and knowing that I would surely get to fuck her overruled my being lazy and just lying there. She was incredibly responsive - even surprising! Just gentle caresses of her clit and licking the surrounding folds made her moan out loud and put her hand on my head as she was really getting into it. A moment later I felt her legs tighten around my head and a flood of wetness gushed out of her as she came hard. It was more her own sweetness than anything remaining from Paul other than that definite taste - but it was just so beautiful to hear and feel her let go like that with me.

when her legs relaxed and I got up on my knees all I could think was that "she's spread like this for me this time" knowing I'd seen her that way about 12 hours or so earlier for Paul. She looked just as radiant - all of her revealed for me as if she had no qualms at all. She let me look at her as she lay back and my cock was already rock hard as I rolled on the condom with one hand and I played with her pussy with the other. Seeing the inner pinkness was just so hot - her hard nub standing proud at the top- her pussy lips now swollen and spread wide apart - and below that, the target my cock was seeking. I wished I'd see a thick bubble of cum in her but was totally satisfied at seeing her open and wet and so obviously ready for and wanting me.

she told me later that she loved knowing that she didn't have to lord over me about using a condom now and that she could tell I had one on when she first felt my cock touch her. She also admitted she felt herself get even wetter when she recognized the feel of the condom.

My god did she feel good - even with the condom on there was just something so incredible about how she felt. So open - and virtually no resistance - just the incredible warmth and feeling of being enveloped in silkiness. She was really into it, on my first thrust she wrapped her legs around my back and pulled me in even more than I was going right away but she wanted to feel me grinding against her right away. She moaned at how my cock felt so different than Paul and when she said that her eyes opened even wider.

I'm still in heaven from thinking about it even now and even after last night. We fucked and despite the horniness I had and her own desires, we fucked for a while - a long while. I'd pull out of her and we'd change positions - I even gave her butt a playful spanking and told her she's been a "bad girl" and she squealed in return. She teased me in return - at times calling it "his pussy" (implying Paul) and again she would moan and with eyes wide would tell me she could feel my cock throb each time. What I do know is that the longer we fucked - the harder and bigger my cock felt and certainly - the wetter and more into it she felt. Our words turned to moans and by the end she was obviously in the missionary position and holding her own legs back and eventually, just telling me "harder baby, harder". I was happy to comply and for a while there - it was just her and I. I would say for me, thoughts of Paul and other stuff was gone - by the time we reached this point - all I could think about was her pussy and my cock. She was bucking and thrashing beneath me - you would not have known she'd been fucked twice the night before. Finally - we both felt it coming and she began to say "oh yeah, come on baby" over and over and I knew from how she sounded that she was getting close. It so spurred me on - every time she'd say that I plunged into her harder and harder and moaned more and more. And - for a rare occasion (especially these days) - we orgasmed together. I say rare because for Sue, sometimes it's the feel of me or Paul cumming in her that triggers her orgasm - but this time she was totally into it and I could feel her whole body as she came hard beneath me. A split second later I let loose and I'll say that in an alpha-moment, I fucked her even harder as I fucked her through my own orgasm, leaving both of us lying there afterwards trying to catch our breath - and - feeling incredibly close.
 
  • #405
Tegelead - great fantasies there but again, a bit too far out there for us.

As I started by saying - she surprised the heck out of me last night by coming home early. I'll share some of that with you later but it was largely a continuation of our Wednesday rituals....
 
  • #406
Steve - The communication is great, the intimacy seems to be going well. You are enjoying the journey as everything continues to evolve.
 
  • #407
STB, of course cucks get rewarded when they don't object to what she referred as "naked chase was out of line to push it in my face". So while she realizes it is out of line, and She also realizes that it was "pushing" in your face , she still does it and of course she apologizes. That condom covered intimacy was just to reassure you into thinking that nothing has changed. Will she do more during vacation - you bet! Will that be counted as "out of line" or "Pushing into your face"...yes because that's what is intended. May be not the same thing, bur other things are shaping up which count as that only. Sorry...STB, to me it looks that Sue has got what she wanted and you are merely an add-on, not the main thing. As of now it's mainly in the bedroom, soon as I shared earlier it will be out of the bedroom as well. To me it looks that you are already on your way out. She might have more loving moments with you in near future.....just to keep you off balance.
 
  • #408
Steve,
I'm always concious that you have always said you never, or hardly ever document your loving but non sexual time with Sue. To the casual reader this will always create an imbalance in perspective, especially when you are starting to document the same between Sue and Paul. Even allowing for this it is easy to assume that Sue's latest change has left you further apart in the relationship even if this distance actually excites you both. The question is, do you see it as a potential danger in the future or just another step on the road?
Your very detailed narrative of last weekend was great but only to me seemed to emphasise the importance you seemed to be putting on the change it might have documented. If so I would love hear Sue's perspective now, after the event and on how she sees things developing and changing before you go away.
 
  • #409
Steve,

Peak does have a point that while your post are generally very detailed they do lack some balance which results in concerns by many that are following your progress on this thread. In the past you did confirm a great deal of what I suggested was happening, a much more enhanced level of intimacy between you and Sue on a non-sexual level as the level and type of denial evolved as you embraced more of your beta desires.

While Peak and I both understand that you typically do not post much about your non-sexual intimacy with Sue, it would be good to inject more of this in the future as we are starting to see more of the non-sexual intimacy between Sue and Paul being posted with consideration to what appears to be the next step between the three (3) of you (Steve, Sue, Paul) as everyone becomes much more comfortable with being open (Sexually and Non-Sexually) in front of each other.

Looking forward to your next post as you continue to enjoy your journey.
 
  • #410
Peak - you are right and instead of me sitting here and telling you how I kissed her goodbye when she said she was going over to Pauls just a little bit ago.

Instead I can share with you that we got up early together this morning. We were close together in bed when we woke and she snuggled into me into a spooning position and one of my hands settled in cupping one of her breasts while she pulled it close under her arm and we lay there. I kissed the back of her neck and she turned and arched her head and we shared a kiss. No, we hadn't had sex last night, not since Wednesday night. I could feel her through her thin night-shirt and could feel her nipple get hard in my palm as we lay there for a while. We made breakfast together when we did get up. She cooked eggs and I took care of the bacon. Afterwards we sat around and enjoyed a cup of coffee out on our front porch, enjoying the warm weather. She offered to shower with me but at the same time we both knew we weren't going to have sex today, not with her going to his place tonight. When I turned off the shower and opened the curtain she was standing there with a towel for me naked to jump in for her turn. After that we both dressed and stopped off at the local sub-shop and got sandwiches and drinks. We then went for a hike at a nearby lake with an overlook area that you can hike/climb up towards. We had lunch and enjoyed taking pictures of each other by the lake and a few selfies. By the fishing area I tried again with little success to show her how to skip stones across the water which made us both laugh. Lunch was really nice as the sun was out and it was in the upper 60's. After lunch we hiked around the back of the park and held hands walking across the arched bridge over the streams that feed the lake. I should add that we took several "necking breaks" as we walked, when we'd find a nice spot, she'd stand in front of me and I'd hug her as we both looked out at the lake or scenery and every time she'd turn to me and we'd have a short but passionate make-out session. Yes it left me with a hardon and I'm quite sure it made her wet too - she can be quite passionate when she wants to be!

I also leave out that Thursday night we lit a fire in the fireplace (gas, sorry) and we spent a while sitting there kissing yes, but also talking and listening to music (watched an Elton John concert I had on DVR) and other TV. And in between doing laundry or paying bills, Peak, we have a pretty close life together so while I don't spend a lot of time there, I suppose it could help present a balance in others minds.

That was about 4 hours of time together which is more than she's spent alone with Paul at one time in quite a while as even last weekend, they were only off alone for a little while and then, well, I don't count the time they're sleeping together.

Raks - yes, I know, gloom and doom - but for me - it seems just the opposite, it's so easy right now - she is really enjoying sex with him and even though they palled around together and were very chummy, I never felt the tension or passionate intensity between them that I would surely see in a couple. Yes, they were together and tickling each other - but as she's said to me since - it's not like they just sit there and either sit motionless or have sex together, she said they do pal around and that she does enjoy letting him chase her around (she did tell me that he's tickled her like this before and chased her around his place).

So she went over his place this evening but she is not staying over as she said she wants to do some shopping tomorrow and if she stayed over she'd wind up spending the whole day there likely. Both of our kids are first coming home on the 21st. Classes and finals are over at the end of next week but apparently there are a number of end-of-semester parties scheduled. So with that, she's asked me if Paul could come and spent next Saturday night with us. When I said yes she asked me if I'd ever be okay with him spending 2 nights here, maybe Friday night and Saturday? I asked her if she really wanted that and I told her that it might not be the easiest thing for me as it'd be 2 nights that I'd be in the other room and it'd disrupt the whole weekend. But when she told me it might be the last overnight she gets with him unless we either go away or until the kids go back to school almost 4 weeks later, there really wasn't any way for me to say now.

Which I suppose leads me to some of what we talked about since I last posted here. We talked a lot about last weekend and she asked me that, outside of the naked-chase, she asked me how I felt about it and whether I was going to be okay with them being like that if we went away skiing. She said that it would be awkward any other way and as others posit'ed here, she did say to me that she and he would "sort of be the couple for the weekend" and she admitted that she felt that last weekend and next weekend would be essentially warm-up's for how it will be when we go away. She asked me how I was going to feel if she and Paul were to use the hot-tubs/saunas and jacuzzi's together. I told her that I thought it was going to be hard on me and that I wasn't sure I was going to be okay with it all. She surprised me and said that "maybe I can just give you a blow-job again and that would help you out" and I literally stopped and looked at her and said "you'd do that?" and she said "maybe...". I asked her more and she said that she hoped she'd feel comfortable doing that around/in-front of Paul but that if I thought it would be something that would help me get through the weekend, then she would try it. Realizing what we were saying I asked her "so that means we aren't...." and before I could say any more she said "no honey, I mean I guess we could maybe after Paul leaves or something" and then she said it "I kind of wanted it to be like last year when I was just his when we were away" and she looked at me and said "you said it turned you on a lot last year baby, do you still feel the same way?". I nodded yes.
 
  • #411
Steve,
Sometimes I wonder if you actually read what you say before you post it. Not the words, but the apparent message behind the words.

In pointing out in my post above that you hardly ever post about the non sexual interactions between you and Sue I was trying to point this out to the more casual readers, not question you. I well understand that this is the real glue that binds you two together and that you both almost take it for granted, it is so embedded in your daily lives. Perhaps another reason why you don't post it.

Still the issue remains that every hour extra spent with Paul is by definition, an hour less than you spend with your wife, particularly as she has so clearly just pointed out. These days, if she is with Paul, your chances of getting any sexual satisfaction from her is next to zero. She clearly now sees that time as only for Paul and her and you are solely allowed as a voyeur, to witness and thus add to your cucky tastes. It is unclear whether Sue's satisfaction would be better or worse with Paul with you there or not. Sometimes you may be a marginal gain, other times it is clear already she prefers to be alone with him. So, all these extra hours work for the Paul-Sue relationship and do nothing for (or work against) the Sue-Steve relationship. However marginal in total terms, and however much you may profess to enjoy it, this is true. You are excited by the erosion of your relationship whilst believing passionately that you are not actually truly risking it. You may even be right but you must see why others believe the risk is there and increasing.

As to getting excited by the possibility of a mercy blow job. Even the way it was offered was demeaning really. When you honestly express that you may find it difficult to spend that much time away from her whilst on holiday, and only after you said this, the offer was made. I can see no way to interpret that as a loving gesture. Sorry.

Further, although at the time you did say you were excited by the extreme denial you suffered on the one weekend you spent away earlier this year, you afterwards said it was too extreme and were unwilling to repeat it. Even Sue after this period said the denial was too much even for her and she wanted to stay closer to you. Now it is to be repeated. Several times and to a greater extent as Paul will spend no time away with his friends. This will erode the non sexual contact time you have. That vital all important glue that is so easy to take for granted. I think deep down you know all this but are unwilling to go against Sue's wants (not requests really are they) for fear of disturbing the current status quo. The thing is that the changes by volume and intensity actually change the current status quo.

The thing is you can't stand still and you can't really go back. You can only go forward. Just be careful as you go. Don't step forward at the same time as you are sexually aroused. I mean, you wouldn't drive that way and that's just another way of moving forward that's probably easier to think about and handle. Consider the possibility that just as you have sometimes thought with your little head when you were in charge in the past, so too could Sue sometimes be thinking with her pussy more than her head now when she is in charge. Previously Sue would have been your check and balance. Now you have to be that for her. It's a new skill but I think you need to practise it just a bit more at moment.

You may think that after next weekend you will have four weeks to sort it out between you, but Paul's absence will work against you. Sue will become increasingly anxious to get back to him and increasingly think through her pussy. Maybe you need a 'time out' code. A flag you can use to stop the world for a moment until you can both agree a way forward and one that matches both your current needs. The thing is you need to agree the concept before you actually invoke it otherwise it will be seen as a direct challenge to her authority, which it isn't.
 
  • #412
Steve thanks for the updates. I don't think anyone who has read any of your posts doubts that you and Sue don't share an amazing bond but as Peak said it is not something that you share a lot so some might perceive it that way and of course no one believes that they sit around and twittle their thumbs when they aren't fucking. The hard thing for me to understand is that they both had to know that their little naked chase might not be well received. It is one thing for Paul to do that is his home with Sue but IMO he needs to show more respect when he is in yours / you'll s.

I also wonder have you told him or Sue that he should / could wear your stuff like your robe?

As for your ski trip weekend it seems to me that that is really upping the ante for you to basically have to take a backseat for two whole days and have it right in your face the whole time. Honestly what is the point of you being there? Will it be such a turn on for you to basically not get to have her but see her with him for two straight days? I mean you have done the two day things but not when you were in the presence of them. I can't quite follow the logic of this one? Has Sue expressed what she feels is the significance of this?

This type of arrangement seems like something that a dominate woman would force upon a wimpy husband and that is not at all how you situation is or has been from the start. While you have expressed your beta desires and have had times of total denial and your current condom usage it has always been more driven out of your desires versus Sue's so that is why this seems a little out of character to me.

When you and Paul talk he has repeatedly expressed his desire not to rock the boat or that he has any intentions to try and take her so I don't since that he is the one driving the weekend plans of you just being an observer. I don't sense that he would care if she wanted to have sex alone with you during the weekend or during some of their playtime's.The biggest surprise to me is that this new desire for the weekend comes on the heels of what seems to be some of the best sexual connections that you guys have had in years when she is in an ongoing relationship. It almost feels like ever time you guys get in a really nice rhythm and place that the ante gets upped.

I am certainly not trying to offend you. I am just trying to better understand the situation. As I mentioned before these type of scenarios are not something me and my wife will ever do because neither of us desires that level of intimacy with a lover. In all honesty Paul would have been a goner and we would have been taking a break from the lifestyle if they would have pulled that chase scene at our house.

Do you think Sue is searching for the line that your desires can be pushed?

I have always looked at your journey as a real give and take between you guys that usually results in a nice balance but going away like this I see tons of give but very little chance for take. I can't still help but wonder if somewhere in all this isn't an attempt either to get you to quit or at least drop your beta desire.

Once again I am not trying to offend and thanks again for continuing to share your your journey and best to you and Sue over the coming Holidays.
 
  • #413
Steve, I'm following your journey in silence. Just wonder how it would have been, when Paul was chasing Sue after tickling, if she had take a chance to involve you in their play, for example hidding behind your back, touching you, pressing her naked body to yours "searching for help from her hubby". Seems to me you wouldn't have the idea being the thirth wheel if something like that happened. Reading your "report" gave me the feeling you where at that moment just inventary for her and Paul in the room.
Merry X-mas and a happy New Year to Sue and you and to all your followers.
(English is not my native language, so excuse spelling errors).
 
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  • #414
Peak - you may be right, I tend to respond, here especially, without a lot of thought. And I do understand that we are literally playing with fire at times regarding what we are doing. I know it is changing and Sue is finding herself having more desires and thoughts than she'd ever thought and we have had some talk, short but some, about "what more do you/I/we want". She openly admits she is finding the sex with Paul to be really something that seems to drive her to want more and more and she steadfastly says that my enjoyment of it is still behind it all, but she does admit that now, yes, as I've long known, that even if I didn't want it, she would still very much want to have sex with Paul or whoever. But this is nothing new as several years ago she already said that she feels she will likely always want a lover and I am okay with that - at least I am right now so that's what we are going with.

Do I understand why it turns me on - no. I mean I know a lot of formative experiences seem like the set the stage, but who knows. The point is that I am not going to deny, I like her having sex with him and I like her wanting it. Golf - you asked what the point of me going with them skiing is, and I can honestly say that I want to be there with her and with him and to see and be a part of it. I know it'll be painful at times to see and hear them, but at the same time, I feel like a teenager saying this, but I can't seem to get enough of her with him. Even last night, it just turned me on so much when she came home knowing where she'd been and yes, knowing that I'd maybe get to see or touch her (as I did) but that I wasn't going to get to have her. I really don't understand it but - I loved lying there with her in my arms when she came home snuggled up to me, yes, knowing her pussy was still wet from him. She felt my hard on behind her and she smiled and she said she liked that I was turned on by it.

I think for Paul and I - I don't really know how to say it but in some ways I'd like it if we could just be more comfortable when we're together. I certainly didn't care that he wore my bathrobe, Sue knows that and he does too. I was actually disappointed because had the naked-chase not occurred, it might have been a different feeling and scene when they came down after they'd been together. I could actually see what she'd hoped for in some ways, to have had them come down and just hung around with me afterwards. I know it's going to sound crazy and certainly cuck-ish when I say that when we do go away skiing, that even now I am looking forward to lying in bed masturbating while I listen to them in the other room. So for Golf who asked why I'd want to be there, I want to see what I don't get to see very often, her being comfortable with him and feeling like she is with him.

Anyway - she's due home anytime now so we can get some dinner going and then she's said that we can have some "alone time" later before bed. I know all of this sounds crazy to some or all of you, when I look at it in black-and-white print, I have to say that sometimes I do see the other side, but I have to say that from the experience side of it, I am still very much enjoying it all and even looking forward to what things may bring.
 
  • #415
Steve,
Thanks again for responding as you do. I think your danger awareness is too focused on the here and now and thus not flagging up anything significant. Just remember the old frog boiling thing. If you drop a frog into boiling water it will try to escape, violently, before it dies. If you slowly heat it up until the water boils it won't, but it will die. Your water is slowly increasing in temperature, it's not too hot yet perhaps but it may get there. Still, I'm sure there will be many comments here before it get even close to critical.

My other thought is about Paul. He says (and I would believe him) that he doesn't want to take Sue away from you. That he doesn't want a committed relationship at this time (even though in truth he actually has one of sorts). He does though seem very happy with things as they are, and those things are gradually swinging his way as well. His water is slowly boiling but in a different way. My worry, my question is, how would he react if he were suddenly faced with the total loss of Sue in his life? Would he shrug it off - it was good while it lasted, or would he realise that in truth he did have feelings he isn't admitting to and go all out to win Sue over completely. Again, I don't see him doing this unless he has to face the loss, which is unlikely to happen soon but go forward a few months at this pace of change and things could change. He might even make a play just on the thought that he might actually lose Sue at some point. Don't ignore the possibility.

Again I urge you to draw some lines in the sand. Points that you will not give way on without serious and prior discussion with Sue alone and without her teasing you at the same time. A big head talk for you both. Also have some time out flag agreed between you. Even a minor issue could eat you up and cause some lasting damage if you raised it and Sue ignored it or put it off until after an arranged session with Paul. I don't expect you would use it much but you need to know it's there.

In the meantime, I hope you enjoyed your evening experienced as I wrote this. Your life at the moment seems pretty good overall to me. Probably even better to you!
 
  • #416
I must say that while we have all spoken about the dangers within this lifestyle, there are also so many positives to have and enjoy. Carefully explore your options and do your best to know what you can accept and how far you are willing to go as your relationship evolves. Enjoy the journey.
 
  • #417
Steve thanks for the follow up.

I can certainly understand the turn on aspect of seeing them as a couple and all that might and will come with that for you and the sexual desire that Sue is feeling and thus driving her wants. However are those so great that it could potentially come at a big price? Not that it will. My fear would be starting down this path with putting / giving Paul a more primary role that it might blur his vision of where he ultimately stands. Have you and Sue discussed how Paul might interpret this arrangement?

I realize how going with the flow and not rocking the boat can be a path taken but have you and Sue ever discussed or set hard lines that your not willing to cross? If it were to ever truly threaten your marriage and life together would than that bring things to a dead stop?

For me the fantasy part of the lifestyle always seems great but then the realist in me always rules how far I am willing to take it. From your last response it sort of seems like currently you are working from the opposite.

As always best of luck and thanks again for continuing to share the journey.
 
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  • #418
STB
do you know if you and Sue ,are going to. have a normal wed. night.
or is she going to see Paul tonight. the kid's should be out of school so as well.
keep us posted.
 
  • #419
I have a feeling that it will be a quite thread for a couple of weeks with few exceptions. Holiday, there kids home, and limited time with Paul.
 
  • #420
.. But lots of talking. If Sue does have plans to go further than ever before then this is the time to build new plans for the new year. It's even more distracting for Steve when he has Sue all to himself and he still doesn't get what Paul gets every time. That must be when it plays on his mind most. I still think Sue will throw in a bareback before new year just to distract him. Lets see ....
 
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